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Rumor:PS5 & Anaconda Scarlet GPU on par with RTX 2080, Xbox exclusives focus on Cross gen, Developer complain about Lockhart.UPDATE: Windows Central said Xbox Anaconda target 12 teraflop

Forums - Gaming Discussion - Rumor:PS5 & Anaconda Scarlet GPU on par with RTX 2080, Xbox exclusives focus on Cross gen, Developer complain about Lockhart.UPDATE: Windows Central said Xbox Anaconda target 12 teraflop

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Total:36
thismeintiel said:
Lockhart is a big mistake. When we get 2 years in and MS is still trying to force devs to make last gen versions of games, even smaller teams who don't have resources to, I think you will see some dropping support.

A Lockhart version would not be a last gen version. Lockhart if real, would be using the same CPU and GPU architecture as all Scarlett gen consoles. Microsoft will be supplying development tools that ensure that there is no effort required to get a game developed for the Scarlett family to run on all Scarlett devices. A one person team will not have an issues making a game for the entire Scarlett platform.  

shikamaru317 said:

Agreed. Hopefully they either abandon the project soon, or increase the specs to maybe 7 tflop and only slightly less RAM than Anaconda. If they bump it up to 7 tflop and only like 2 GB less RAM than Anaconda it should be powerful enough to meet the 1440p target that MS set for developers on Lockhart, with no other graphical downgrades compared to the Anaconda version. Will be alot easier for developers if all they have to downgrade is the resolution, too much work if they have to downgrade more than resolution to get a game to run on Lockhart.

Ideally though, they should drop Lockhart entirely, and just release a discless version of Anaconda, and subsidize it in order to hit an attractive price point that is $100 less than the disc drive Anaconda. They can make back what they lose on the subsidized console with the higher profit margin on digital game sales. 

Another reason why Lockhart is a terrible idea: if we get mid-gen upgrade consoles, which Sony is already hinting at for PS5, developers will have to support 3 different Xbox consoles with different specs; Lockhart, Anaconda, and whatever the codename for the mid-gen upgrade console will be. Devs will absoutely hate having to support 3 different Xbox's with different specs. Just release a discless Anaconda instead of Lockhart Microsoft.

Supporting 3 different Scarlett devices is not going to be a major effort. Supporting 20 different Scarlett devices wouldn't be a major effort. 

This is not the 90's or 00's anymore. Hardware and Development Tools have changed in the last two decades. Every aspect of the pipeline is being optimized for scalability. These console platforms, are even more optimized for scalability, because they have been built with it in mind, and they run a very specific set of Hardware and Software. 

Sony hinted that Pro was a "Test Case"", and the thinking behind it was "a platform lifecycle, we should be able to change the hardware itself and try to incorporate advancements in technology".

PS4 Pro was a proof of concept, and from what Sony is hinting at, they liked what they saw. To me it sounds like they are ready to go all the way with this thinking with PS5, and we will be seeing yearly PS5 updates, and possibly have PS5 Base and Premium level models as well. 

With the way AMD has laid out Zen and RDNA, and Sony talking about changing hardware during the life cycle, to incorperate advanced technology. It would not be in the least bit surprising to see them bring out new hardware with Zen3 and RDNA2, and again with Zen4 and RDNA3, and so on and so forth, with PS6 arriving when AMD and its parteners nail down full generational transitions to the successors of Zen and RDNA.

The industry is changing. As time progresses everything changes. It is not something to be scared of. There will always be fear mongering with anything new. Don't get caught up in the hyperbole. 



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KBG29 said:
thismeintiel said:
Lockhart is a big mistake. When we get 2 years in and MS is still trying to force devs to make last gen versions of games, even smaller teams who don't have resources to, I think you will see some dropping support.

A Lockhart version would not be a last gen version. Lockhart if real, would be using the same CPU and GPU architecture as all Scarlett gen consoles. Microsoft will be supplying development tools that ensure that there is no effort required to get a game developed for the Scarlett family to run on all Scarlett devices. A one person team will not have an issues making a game for the entire Scarlett platform.  

shikamaru317 said:

Agreed. Hopefully they either abandon the project soon, or increase the specs to maybe 7 tflop and only slightly less RAM than Anaconda. If they bump it up to 7 tflop and only like 2 GB less RAM than Anaconda it should be powerful enough to meet the 1440p target that MS set for developers on Lockhart, with no other graphical downgrades compared to the Anaconda version. Will be alot easier for developers if all they have to downgrade is the resolution, too much work if they have to downgrade more than resolution to get a game to run on Lockhart.

Ideally though, they should drop Lockhart entirely, and just release a discless version of Anaconda, and subsidize it in order to hit an attractive price point that is $100 less than the disc drive Anaconda. They can make back what they lose on the subsidized console with the higher profit margin on digital game sales. 

Another reason why Lockhart is a terrible idea: if we get mid-gen upgrade consoles, which Sony is already hinting at for PS5, developers will have to support 3 different Xbox consoles with different specs; Lockhart, Anaconda, and whatever the codename for the mid-gen upgrade console will be. Devs will absoutely hate having to support 3 different Xbox's with different specs. Just release a discless Anaconda instead of Lockhart Microsoft.

Supporting 3 different Scarlett devices is not going to be a major effort. Supporting 20 different Scarlett devices wouldn't be a major effort. 

This is not the 90's or 00's anymore. Hardware and Development Tools have changed in the last two decades. Every aspect of the pipeline is being optimized for scalability. These console platforms, are even more optimized for scalability, because they have been built with it in mind, and they run a very specific set of Hardware and Software. 

Sony hinted that Pro was a "Test Case"", and the thinking behind it was "a platform lifecycle, we should be able to change the hardware itself and try to incorporate advancements in technology".

PS4 Pro was a proof of concept, and from what Sony is hinting at, they liked what they saw. To me it sounds like they are ready to go all the way with this thinking with PS5, and we will be seeing yearly PS5 updates, and possibly have PS5 Base and Premium level models as well. 

With the way AMD has laid out Zen and RDNA, and Sony talking about changing hardware during the life cycle, to incorperate advanced technology. It would not be in the least bit surprising to see them bring out new hardware with Zen3 and RDNA2, and again with Zen4 and RDNA3, and so on and so forth, with PS6 arriving when AMD and its parteners nail down full generational transitions to the successors of Zen and RDNA.

The industry is changing. As time progresses everything changes. It is not something to be scared of. There will always be fear mongering with anything new. Don't get caught up in the hyperbole. 

Baselines will always exist and the lower the baseline you have to develop for (there is talks about MS wanting next gen games to keep running on base X1) the lower the quality you can achieve on the upper line because it still have to work on the base one.

Also don't pretend that you have almost no work to make the game work on all versions.

Even PS4Pro that is only twice as powerful than base PS4 the option of IQ or FPS is still additional effort compared to only develop the base game.



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Yes, move away from last gen.
No holding back, start kicking the front door open for next gen.



It's strongly rumored the so-called dedicated ray tracing doesn't take much performance hit on the GPU. If so good news.

But if not the case it would be annoying if much GPU horsepower went on ray tracing. It's Toy Story quality at best, looks too sterile to be photorealistic. Path tracing is a big step up. But requires huge performance. 4k/60 fps should be mandatory.



ManUtdFan said:
It's strongly rumored the so-called dedicated ray tracing doesn't take much performance hit on the GPU. If so good news.

But if not the case it would be annoying if much GPU horsepower went on ray tracing. It's Toy Story quality at best, looks too sterile to be photorealistic. Path tracing is a big step up. But requires huge performance. 4k/60 fps should be mandatory.

I respect your opinion, but thats why PC and mid gen refresh consoles exist,  to cater more performance or more resolution then the base consoles. Base console like PS5 and Scarlet will not dictate developer how the games will look and perform, it means is up to developer to choose on base consoles, either they can focus on resolution, iq, graphic effect, geometry, shaders, Ray Tracing or perhaps more frame rates into the baseline.

Then mid gen consoles and PC will do the enhancement from what already been done from the games that designed from the base consoles.

We will still see 1440p or 1800p running on PS5 and Scarlet (Anaconda), if Developer choose aiming for high quality iq and next gen shader with Ray Tracing or runs games at 30fps because how demanding the visual effect is. 



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DonFerrari said:
KBG29 said:

A Lockhart version would not be a last gen version. Lockhart if real, would be using the same CPU and GPU architecture as all Scarlett gen consoles. Microsoft will be supplying development tools that ensure that there is no effort required to get a game developed for the Scarlett family to run on all Scarlett devices. A one person team will not have an issues making a game for the entire Scarlett platform.  

Supporting 3 different Scarlett devices is not going to be a major effort. Supporting 20 different Scarlett devices wouldn't be a major effort. 

This is not the 90's or 00's anymore. Hardware and Development Tools have changed in the last two decades. Every aspect of the pipeline is being optimized for scalability. These console platforms, are even more optimized for scalability, because they have been built with it in mind, and they run a very specific set of Hardware and Software. 

Sony hinted that Pro was a "Test Case"", and the thinking behind it was "a platform lifecycle, we should be able to change the hardware itself and try to incorporate advancements in technology".

PS4 Pro was a proof of concept, and from what Sony is hinting at, they liked what they saw. To me it sounds like they are ready to go all the way with this thinking with PS5, and we will be seeing yearly PS5 updates, and possibly have PS5 Base and Premium level models as well. 

With the way AMD has laid out Zen and RDNA, and Sony talking about changing hardware during the life cycle, to incorperate advanced technology. It would not be in the least bit surprising to see them bring out new hardware with Zen3 and RDNA2, and again with Zen4 and RDNA3, and so on and so forth, with PS6 arriving when AMD and its parteners nail down full generational transitions to the successors of Zen and RDNA.

The industry is changing. As time progresses everything changes. It is not something to be scared of. There will always be fear mongering with anything new. Don't get caught up in the hyperbole. 

Baselines will always exist and the lower the baseline you have to develop for (there is talks about MS wanting next gen games to keep running on base X1) the lower the quality you can achieve on the upper line because it still have to work on the base one.

Also don't pretend that you have almost no work to make the game work on all versions.

Even PS4Pro that is only twice as powerful than base PS4 the option of IQ or FPS is still additional effort compared to only develop the base game.

Years of PC development with its myriad different configurations, means modern game engines are designed with scalability at the forefront, so having multiple SKU is today not the hindrance it would have been in past generations, this means having just one version has lost the importance it once had.



mjk45 said:

Years of PC development with its myriad different configurations, means modern game engines are designed with scalability at the forefront, so having multiple SKU is today not the hindrance it would have been in past generations, this means having just one version has lost the importance it once had.

I hope it's true so we probably can play Red Dead Redemption 2 on PS one or Sega Saturn. 



HollyGamer said:
Barkley said:

Not a chance the PS5/Scarlet are equivalent to an RTX 2080. The RX 5700 XT is the best Navi card atm, it's not as good as an RTX 2080 and it costs $400.

Performance will be closer to the RTX 2060, a little below the RX 5700 (non XT).

Again , we still don't know, but next year all RX 5700 price will go down due to new GPU from AMD (RDNA 2)  and Nvidia RX 3000 series. And Many insider beside Jason also confirmed this, plus with all the PS5 APU Gonzalo benchmark that has similar score to RTX 2080. 

Sony and Microsoft already confirmed that PS5 and Scarlet will have dedicated ray tracing which is not available with RX 5700 XT. So PS5 and Scarlet Anaconda will have better GPU then RX 5700 XT or similar with it. 

please stop comparing a console APU to any dedicated GPU, especially not to the top end one from a different architecture / company. it's completely meaningless and only invites discredit to other valuable information that could actually generate a good discussion.

also benchmarks without mature enough drivers aren't good performance indicators, not to mention I haven't seen any actual game benchmarks done in the gonzalo apu. would be great if you could link those if they do exist



HollyGamer said:
mjk45 said:

Years of PC development with its myriad different configurations, means modern game engines are designed with scalability at the forefront, so having multiple SKU is today not the hindrance it would have been in past generations, this means having just one version has lost the importance it once had.

I hope it's true so we probably can play Red Dead Redemption 2 on PS one or Sega Saturn. 

I'm not sure what your point is with such a ludicrous statement, you know as well as I do what scalability of modern engines means. 



mjk45 said:
HollyGamer said:

I hope it's true so we probably can play Red Dead Redemption 2 on PS one or Sega Saturn. 

I'm not sure what your point is with such a ludicrous statement, you know as well as I do what scalability of modern engines means. 

 " Scalability " and " modern engines " is a vague words and terms and need more explanation. How far games can be scalable,and how far you can consider as modern?