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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Rumor: Xbox Scarlet Devkit is late behind the schedule to surprise Sony

Tagged games:

 

What do you think

To surprise Sony 10 20.00%
 
It's late because Sony ar... 9 18.00%
 
It's just showed Microsof... 7 14.00%
 
They probably just rebuil... 5 10.00%
 
Who knows 19 38.00%
 
Total:50
Trumpstyle on 07 December 2019
Pemalite said:
Flops are irrelevant.

So you getting Lockhart over Anaconda I guess :)

HollyGamer said:
Trumpstyle said:

Indeed

"Plans for Lockhart may change, but currently this console will debut with around 4 teraflops of graphical power." - The Verge

"one game developer briefed on Lockhart analogized it to the PlayStation 4 Pro in terms of raw graphical power" - Kotaku

"Microsoft is targeting more than 10 teraflops of graphical power on this particular console." - The Verge on Anaconda

What I'm pointing out there's a old leak saying that Lockhart was 4TF with 12GB Vram and Anaconda is 12TF with 16GB Vram, it looks like it nailed lockhart, maybe it will nail Anaconda too? But the same leak said PS5 was 8TF, so we might be looking at:

Lockhart 4TF, 12GB Vram, disc-less, $250

PS5 10,1-10,6TF, 16GB Vram + 4-6GB ddr4, $400

Anaconda 10,01TF, 14GB Vram, $500 OR 12TF, 16GB Vram, $500.

Seeing the specs and price, PS5 looks either to powerful or to cheap, I don't know where you getting your random TF numbers from.

New insider leaked said PS5 and Xbox Anaconda will be above 10 teraflop (kleegamer fan from Reset Era)  neither confirmed the number, Jason from Kotaku who  confirmed Lockhart resurrection also said PS5 and Xbox are on the same spec and power and both are very powerful. If Xbox Anaconda is 12 then PS5 will be 12 teraflop as well logically. But we still don't have the exact number for both, but both will be above 10 teraflop . The verge (Tomwaren) said Xbox will be targeting more than 10 teraflop and match the other insider above.

Tom warren once said "probably 12 teraflop, probably 12 probably 14 teraflop" That was he is speculation 

8 teraflop PS5 was probably the old number when PS5 were targeted at 2019 release date, They have change the plan in 2017 to release in 2020 . So the spec also have changed . Also remember it was also GCN number not Navi teraflop number. Old Spec number are bogus and already debunked because they said Xbox Anaconda are using arcturus which is stupid because arcturus is a server GPU that don't have capability of rendering graphic LOL. 

Yeah that what I meant, the old leak got PS5 wrong, everything points towards 10,1-10,6TF for the PS5. And someone over at Neogaf who seems to know a lot, based on his numbers 12TF is not possible just slightly above 10TF is, because of the heat and form factor, this on TSMC N7P or TSMC 7nm+.

Now we got Jason Schreier saying that the Vram between Lockhart and Anaconda is big, so 12GB Vram for lockhart is probably wrong too, 8GB Vram is more likely. So I think we looking at:

Lockhart 4TF, 8GB Vram 128-bit bus (224GB/s bandwidth), disc-less, $250

PS5, 10,1-10,6TF, 16GB Vram 256-bit bus (572GB/s bandwidth) + 4-6GB ddr4, $400?

Anaconda, 10,01TF, 14GB Vram 320-bit bus (560GB/s bandwidth), $500

Last edited by Trumpstyle - on 07 December 2019

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DonFerrari on 07 December 2019
Mr Puggsly said:
Technarchy said:

If Scarlett is incapable of matching or exceeding PS5 performance, it's a repeat of X1 vs PS4, which won't be good for MSFT. The only prayer Scarlett would have in that situation is a slew of exclusive, fully optimized AAA titles that look and run ridiculously well, and can't be had anywhere else, including PC.

@goopy - Only a fraction of users seem to really play the exclusives. Unless its Nintendo games of course. I'm not exactly sure why so many flock to PS4, especially when consider they share many top selling games.

@Technarchy - I don't believe X1 being less powerful than PS4 was the biggest problem X1 had at launch. I'd say being $499 was a much bigger problem. X1 sales could have been boosted early on if they excluded Kinect at launch for $399.

Hence, their next console would have to be more expensive and less powerful to recreate the 2013 launch situation. These are important details people seem to ignore.

I personally hope MS does two units, base and premium. It would be good for them if they have a cheap unit and the most powerful console again.

Many Sony exclusives this gen have been selling 10, 15 or even 20M. So sorry to burst the bubble, but this gen a big portion of people bought and played exclusives on PS4. And if that wasn't an issue MS recognize they wouldn't have bought so many devs.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

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http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Pemalite on 07 December 2019
Mr Puggsly said:

@Technarchy - I don't believe X1 being less powerful than PS4 was the biggest problem X1 had at launch. I'd say being $499 was a much bigger problem. X1 sales could have been boosted early on if they excluded Kinect at launch for $399.

It was part of the problem.
The Xbox One being slower and more expensive is a taste that didn't sit with many consumers.
Throw in Kinect which no one wanted, always-online DRM and a convoluted UI... Lack of exclusives... And well. You get the gist.

Trumpstyle said:
Pemalite said:
Flops are irrelevant.

So you getting Lockhart over Anaconda I guess :)

I will buy the fastest console that gets released. Flops is irrelevant to that.

A GPU with less flops can be more powerful than a GPU with more flops. - I mean I have only demonstrated that with evidence how many times on this forum? You being on the receiving end of that more than once, I would thought you would have taken a bit more notice.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Technarchy on 08 December 2019
Pemalite said:
Mr Puggsly said:

@Technarchy - I don't believe X1 being less powerful than PS4 was the biggest problem X1 had at launch. I'd say being $499 was a much bigger problem. X1 sales could have been boosted early on if they excluded Kinect at launch for $399.

It was part of the problem.
The Xbox One being slower and more expensive is a taste that didn't sit with many consumers.
Throw in Kinect which no one wanted, always-online DRM and a convoluted UI... Lack of exclusives... And well. You get the gist.

When X1X was released it seemed as if MSFT acknowledged the errors of the X1 launch.

Now, right before Scarlett, we again see these distractions with “Services” like XCloud and Gamepass. To some extent, I dont think these American corporations can help themselves. 

The irony, MSFT at their most focused (X360) was also their most successful. 



Mr Puggsly on 08 December 2019
DonFerrari said:
Mr Puggsly said:

@goopy - Only a fraction of users seem to really play the exclusives. Unless its Nintendo games of course. I'm not exactly sure why so many flock to PS4, especially when consider they share many top selling games.

@Technarchy - I don't believe X1 being less powerful than PS4 was the biggest problem X1 had at launch. I'd say being $499 was a much bigger problem. X1 sales could have been boosted early on if they excluded Kinect at launch for $399.

Hence, their next console would have to be more expensive and less powerful to recreate the 2013 launch situation. These are important details people seem to ignore.

I personally hope MS does two units, base and premium. It would be good for them if they have a cheap unit and the most powerful console again.

Many Sony exclusives this gen have been selling 10, 15 or even 20M. So sorry to burst the bubble, but this gen a big portion of people bought and played exclusives on PS4. And if that wasn't an issue MS recognize they wouldn't have bought so many devs.

Yes, thank you for proving my point. Even the most popular Sony exclusives are only played by a fraction of the userbase.



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Mr Puggsly on 08 December 2019
Technarchy said:
Pemalite said:

It was part of the problem.
The Xbox One being slower and more expensive is a taste that didn't sit with many consumers.
Throw in Kinect which no one wanted, always-online DRM and a convoluted UI... Lack of exclusives... And well. You get the gist.

When X1X was released it seemed as if MSFT acknowledged the errors of the X1 launch.

Now, right before Scarlett, we again see these distractions with “Services” like XCloud and Gamepass. To some extent, I dont think these American corporations can help themselves. 

The irony, MSFT at their most focused (X360) was also their most successful. 

I disagree. Forcing Kinect on users and pushing TV stuff could be seen as a distraction. I would argue MS needed more studios because 3rd parties werent delivering strong enough content. All of that is valid.

xCloud and Gamepass however are actually ways to enhance the Xbox experience. I am in the xCloud beta and continued my progress in some games. Gamepass is apparently increasing software revenue and has more people engaged in 1st party content.

360 was most successful in sales. But the Gold service angered many and hardware failures piled on. Some would call those distractions. They were also too dependent on 3rd parties which continued on X1. What really helped 360 was Sony's arrogance.



Recently Completed: 
River City: Rival Showdown for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

konkari on 08 December 2019

I think it is PC which will be surprised. PS5 and Scarlet are clearly out to challenge the PC in specs, and in 2020 this package with optimized software will simply stomp over anything that there is available on other platforms. This will be a problem for MS, not so much for Sony.



Conina on 08 December 2019
konkari said:

I think it is PC which will be surprised. PS5 and Scarlet are clearly out to challenge the PC in specs, and in 2020 this package with optimized software will simply stomp over anything that there is available on other platforms.

We read this every time a new console gen is announced.

Meanwhile more and more console franchises make their jump to the PC platform (or come back to the PC after decades of absense)

  • Dead or Alive, Tekken, Mortal Kombat, SoulCalibur, Street Fighter
  • Crash Bandicoot, Spyro, Sonic
  • Heavy Rain, Beyond: Two Souls, Detroit: Beyond Human
  • Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, Ni No Kuni and dozens of other JRPGs
  • Halo, Forza, Gears of War
  • Shenmue, Yakuza, Red Dead Redemption, Metal Gear Solid
  • Danganronpa, Zero Escape, Steins;Gate

Many of the new games in these franchises are released the same time as the console versions.



Technarchy on 08 December 2019
Mr Puggsly said:
DonFerrari said:

Many Sony exclusives this gen have been selling 10, 15 or even 20M. So sorry to burst the bubble, but this gen a big portion of people bought and played exclusives on PS4. And if that wasn't an issue MS recognize they wouldn't have bought so many devs.

Yes, thank you for proving my point. Even the most popular Sony exclusives are only played by a fraction of the userbase.

Looking at 2018, Spider-Man and God of War were the two biggest PS4 exclusives totaling about 14 million units or so combined. Yes, RDR2 sold more than both, but Sony can probably project those Spider-Man and God of War buyers are likely future PS5 customers. 

Microsoft doesn’t have that luxury coming out of X1/X1X, Gears and Halo withstanding. Those exclusives lock down a percentage of the market from one generation to the next.



Pemalite on 08 December 2019
konkari said:

I think it is PC which will be surprised. PS5 and Scarlet are clearly out to challenge the PC in specs, and in 2020 this package with optimized software will simply stomp over anything that there is available on other platforms. This will be a problem for MS, not so much for Sony.

We hear this every console generation. It never really materializes to much.

I mean... A large amount of console gamers on this very forum thought the Playstation 4 exceeded PC's at the time because it had "8GB of GDDR5" when PC's didn't. - Or because of the extra ACE units in the GPU that was like some special secret sauce.

It didn't amount to much. Heck, it never played games past 1080P.

The fact is... Whilst consoles are leveraging PC technology, consoles will never be able to match a high-end PC. - Consoles have a fixed monetary budget in what they can throw around, PC does not.
PC also doesn't have TDP or size limitations like consoles either.

The "optimization" consoles get doesn't actually make the hardware more capable than it already is... Which is why a Radeon 7850/7870/270/270x/370/x370x (Similar class as a modern RX 460/560) is giving us a similar experience to the PS4. Sure same games will run better on the PS4, some games will run and look better on PC, that's down to the developer... But never did the PS4 give us an experience that would have made it competitive with the Radeon RX 580 for example from just sheer "optimizations" alone.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--