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Phil Spencer: VR Is Not Our Focus Because Our Customers Aren't Asking for It

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Is this the right choice for MS?

Yes, VR will never go mainstream. 8 27.59%
 
Right now, yes. VR is still too niche. 13 44.83%
 
No. MS will lose their p... 8 27.59%
 
Total:29
ironmanDX said:
JRPGfan said:

look at how much 60" tv's cost today vs 20 years ago.
Costs are like 1/10th, while at the same time your getting a vastly better tv today than then.

Usually as tech developes it gets cheaper, same with mass production.
The reason its so expensive is because they dont make enough, and sales arnt there for it.

That can easily change with time.
Sony has the right idea, by keeping the unit simple and cheap.

While these guys chaseing the ultimate VR experiance makeing units that cost 1500$-2000$, are only doing so for profits, while probably not really doing much of anything to appeal to the mass market. If VR takes off and goes big, it ll be from the bottom up, imo, since so many want to try it, but see the cost of entry as too much.

VR has been around some 30 years. It's had time. You also didn't answer the other question. 

How have they polled for the rest of the year? 

Of course the answer is “uh, I don’t know” 😆

The answer is, not very well. No headsets in the top 60, I believe four headsets total, all Oculus Rift. No PSVR. The PC VR scene is extremely niche, console even more so. Either word of mouth with PSVR is very bad or people just barely use them 🤷🏻‍♂️



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LudicrousSpeed said:
ironmanDX said:

VR has been around some 30 years. It's had time. You also didn't answer the other question. 

How have they polled for the rest of the year? 

Of course the answer is “uh, I don’t know” 😆

The answer is, not very well. No headsets in the top 60, I believe four headsets total, all Oculus Rift. No PSVR. The PC VR scene is extremely niche, console even more so. Either word of mouth with PSVR is very bad or people just barely use them 🤷🏻‍♂️

I did infact answear him too.... you make up alot of stuff.

on amazon right now:

#16 Oculus Go
#36 PSVR Megabundle
#61 Oculus Quest all-in-one
#64 Oculus Rift

Hmm..... thats not correct, what you wrote (no headset in top60, no PSVR).

Theres probably like 5,5m or so PSVR users,..... "hardly anyone uses them".

Thats like saying theres only 8million Gamepass subscriptions, hardly anyone uses it.

"PC VR scene is extremely niche"
Theres atleast 10m+ units on pc sold, I wouldnt say thats extremly niche.

Last edited by JRPGfan - on 03 December 2019

JRPGfan said:
LudicrousSpeed said:

Of course the answer is “uh, I don’t know” 😆

The answer is, not very well. No headsets in the top 60, I believe four headsets total, all Oculus Rift. No PSVR. The PC VR scene is extremely niche, console even more so. Either word of mouth with PSVR is very bad or people just barely use them 🤷🏻‍♂️

I did infact answear him too.... you make up alot of stuff.

on amazon right now:

#16 Oculus Go
#36 PSVR Megabundle
#61 Oculus Quest all-in-one
#64 Oculus Rift

Hmm..... thats not correct, what you wrote (no headset in top60, no PSVR).

Theres probably like 5,5m or so PSVR users,..... "hardly anyone uses them".

Thats like saying theres only 8million Gamepass subscriptions, hardly anyone uses it.

"PC VR scene is extremely niche"
Theres atleast 10m+ units on pc sold, I wouldnt say thats extremly niche.

He asked how the headsets were doing the rest of the year. What I posted is straight from Amazon on their best sellers of 2019 so far list.

As I said, there are four VR headsets, all Oculus. The first one isn’t on the list until 62 and IIRC the Oculus Go is the one you just take wherever you want. Its not the traditional headset you connect to your console or PC, though iirc you can connect the Go to a PC. Two of the headsets are Go models and one is a Quest, so there’s only one headset you’d actually have to hook up to hardware like you would a PSVR or Xbox VR headset. 

Sorry that what Amazon is telling you directly contradicts your own opinions but it doesn’t mean I’m “making stuff up” 😆



LudicrousSpeed said:
ironmanDX said:

VR has been around some 30 years. It's had time. You also didn't answer the other question. 

How have they polled for the rest of the year? 

Of course the answer is “uh, I don’t know” 😆

The answer is, not very well. No headsets in the top 60, I believe four headsets total, all Oculus Rift. No PSVR. The PC VR scene is extremely niche, console even more so. Either word of mouth with PSVR is very bad or people just barely use them 🤷🏻‍♂️

1.) I see Oculus Quest as #36 for the year.  The highest ranked console is just barely in the top 60.  Which is the opposite of what I was expecting.  

2.) Oculus Quest is mostly mobile VR, with plug into PC capabilities.  

3.) It also doesn't make sense to have the current sales bar to be the decider of if VR is niche.  Otherwise according to Amazon right now consoles are a smaller niche, which makes no sense right now.  

VR needs another 5-10 years before it's good enough to not be niche territory.  



Hopefully Microsoft learned from their Kinect mistake don't force a product that your customer doesn't want. In this case VR is still a niche product, regardless of the high interest from users on this website. You can tell with current Sales of VR units that it's not anywhere near mainstream and wont get there for a while.

"Nearly three years after consumer virtual reality became a real thing, the market is still trying to determine whether it’s a growing market niche or a dwindling technological fad."
https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/03/putting-sonys-4-2-million-psvr-sales-in-context/

Microsoft is about to ask consumers to spend on a new hardware. There won't be much interest to spend more money for VR.

There hardly any Occolus Rift on the market right now, so that partnership doesn't make much sense.



Tommy Jean, CPA, CGA

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VR hasn't grabbed me yet - and I may only enjoy it for certain titles, even when it's perfected. I like being visibly in my own home when I play games for the most part. I actually like kicking back in front of a CRT or an arcade cabinet most of all.



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SvennoJ said:

So far I paid $1 to play FH4, Gears 4 and Crackdown. When there is more I can always get it for another month. You can simply make a new account and get it for a dollar again. I have no intention to subscribe for longer than it takes to play one of the exclusives

Currently thats the deal going around this year however its all a promotional deal to build the GamePass eco-system. Once built, i wouldn't be relying on those sort of deals come Scarlet. Those prices are also subject to change. They could up the price, we dont know.

Either way, if you prefer to rent your games than more power to you but come a time you want to play the games again, out comes your wallet and MS eyes will look like this $.$



JRPGfan said:
ironmanDX said:

VR has been around some 30 years. It's had time. You also didn't answer the other question. 

How have they polled for the rest of the year? 

Virtual Boy, doesnt count.... that wasnt VR.
What type of consumer product VR was there out 30 years ago? 
I think "real" vr is in its early stages, before oculus there was basically nothing (imo).

I think 20 years from now, you ll look at VR headsets today vs then, and see the same patern as happend to us now, with TVs.
They will be vastly better, even just this "next gen" (gen2) of vr headsets, are already set to improve the bar alot.

"how have they polled for the rest of the year"

I honestly dont know, I know that sometime early-mid this year there was like 5million units of PSVR.

Is PSVR (on PS4) a failur if it only does like 7million units lifetime?
I dont think so, any start up and first of its kinde, have slow adaption rates, esp if theres still minor kinks to be worked out.

They will improve with time, and prices will drop, and adoption rates will keep growing.

*edit:
Ironman if PSVR does like 7mil on PS4.... do you think PSVR2 will do like 10m+ on PS5?
And how much do you feel like a VR headset needs to sell, before you can justify spending resources & developement on it?

My dad, was born in 53 and he remembers TV's being something not ever house hold owned.
He says they where one of the first on the block he lived to get a colour tv (his mom got one), so they had other children over often to watch stuff there because it was in colour. This was back when production of tv, wasnt all in colour either.

Can you imagine.... and before then there was a time when TV's must have been really rare, like.... few houses owned one.
Today they are everywhere, and many homes have multiple TVs or monitors.

Imagine if they just gave up, back then before critical mass took off, and TVs became what they are today.
Same thing with VR headsets (though I doubt it ll ever be as popular & common as TVs, I expect them to be much more common than now).

You can't use how dreadful an initial product is to excuse it or how poor it was implemented. I'm sure the first TV sucked too but it was still a TV. You can't provide that as an example then change the goalpost after the fact. Virtual Boy may not be VR in your opinion but that doesn't change what the product actually is or does.

TV's have taken off at an unprecedented rate compared to VR. 30 years later, still niche. Amazon numbers posted by LudicrousSpeed don't flatter it like you initially thought. They do the opposite.



ironmanDX said:

You can't use how dreadful an initial product is to excuse it or how poor it was implemented. I'm sure the first TV sucked too but it was still a TV. You can't provide that as an example then change the goalpost after the fact. Virtual Boy may not be VR in your opinion but that doesn't change what the product actually is or does.

TV's have taken off at an unprecedented rate compared to VR. 30 years later, still niche. Amazon numbers posted by LudicrousSpeed don't flatter it like you initially thought. They do the opposite.

the Virtual Boy doesn't do VR, it's a personal (stereoscopic) 3D viewer and does nothing that a 3DTV can't, unlike VR headsets

it wasn't even "VR at the time", as professional VR headsets had been a thing way before it's launch and actually did VR



Lafiel said:
ironmanDX said:

You can't use how dreadful an initial product is to excuse it or how poor it was implemented. I'm sure the first TV sucked too but it was still a TV. You can't provide that as an example then change the goalpost after the fact. Virtual Boy may not be VR in your opinion but that doesn't change what the product actually is or does.

TV's have taken off at an unprecedented rate compared to VR. 30 years later, still niche. Amazon numbers posted by LudicrousSpeed don't flatter it like you initially thought. They do the opposite.

the Virtual Boy doesn't do VR, it's a personal (stereoscopic) 3D viewer and does nothing that a 3DTV can't, unlike VR headsets

it wasn't even "VR at the time", as professional VR headsets had been a thing way before it's launch and actually did VR

Interesting... So there were VR heatsets before virtual boy. I thought it was "VR at the time" and just poorly implemented.

My God, it's been around since 1968... That's 50-51 years...