By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Sales Discussion - usa: "PS4 has already sold more units this week > the last several months combined"

colafitte said:

I'm not talking about having a peak year in year 3 or 4 in USA (which should have been normal considering what happened with PS1, PS2 and PS3). I'm saying that PS4 and XBO were ahead compared to last gen just before Switch launched and now they're going to end behind, when that is not going to happen in any other place not called Japan, another country/region where Switch has performed much better than PS4 in the last year or two.

Europe:

X360+PS3: around 61M
PS4+XBO: Already at 55M, they probably will end around 65-70M margin

Others:

X360+PS3: 21'5M
PS4+XBO: Already at 23M, they probably will end around 30M

*according to VGC data of course.

I don't know guys..., but Japan and US sales both have seen PS4 going down quickly and both have seen Switch going up quickly. If you consider that a coincidence..., well, we agree to disagree then.

Xbox 360 + PS3 numbers in the USA were inflated by the success of Kinect. You can see just how popular it was in North America compared to everywhere else:

http://www.vgchartz.com/game/45608/kinect-adventures/sales

The effect is easily observable in its annual sales from 2010 onward: (US, Xbox 360 is the top line, PS3 is the bottom one)

Compare that to Europe, where Kinect wasn't nearly as popular: (PS3 is the top line, Xbox 360 is the bottom line)

In contrast to the 360, PS4 and Xbox One haven't done anything to appeal outside of their typical third-party, AAA gaming audience. That's why you see a decline for Gen 8 in the US. It has nothing to do with Switch stealing sales from them.

Also, PS4 was flat between 2016, 2017, and 2018 in both the US and Japan, so the idea that it's declining because of the Switch makes no sense to begin with.



Around the Network
StarDoor said:
colafitte said:

I'm not talking about having a peak year in year 3 or 4 in USA (which should have been normal considering what happened with PS1, PS2 and PS3). I'm saying that PS4 and XBO were ahead compared to last gen just before Switch launched and now they're going to end behind, when that is not going to happen in any other place not called Japan, another country/region where Switch has performed much better than PS4 in the last year or two.

Europe:

X360+PS3: around 61M
PS4+XBO: Already at 55M, they probably will end around 65-70M margin

Others:

X360+PS3: 21'5M
PS4+XBO: Already at 23M, they probably will end around 30M

*according to VGC data of course.

I don't know guys..., but Japan and US sales both have seen PS4 going down quickly and both have seen Switch going up quickly. If you consider that a coincidence..., well, we agree to disagree then.

Xbox 360 + PS3 numbers in the USA were inflated by the success of Kinect. You can see just how popular it was in North America compared to everywhere else:

http://www.vgchartz.com/game/45608/kinect-adventures/sales

The effect is easily observable in its annual sales from 2010 onward: (US, Xbox 360 is the top line, PS3 is the bottom one)

Compare that to Europe, where Kinect wasn't nearly as popular: (PS3 is the top line, Xbox 360 is the bottom line)

In contrast to the 360, PS4 and Xbox One haven't done anything to appeal outside of their typical third-party, AAA gaming audience. That's why you see a decline for Gen 8 in the US. It has nothing to do with Switch stealing sales from them.

Also, PS4 was flat between 2016, 2017, and 2018 in both the US and Japan, so the idea that it's declining because of the Switch makes no sense to begin with.

And that was my point. The "hot item" for USA during 2010-2012 was Kinect and affected a lot Wii (for a lot of different reasons too i admit) and PS3 sales. In Europe Kinect was not that big of a deal and PS3 was not affected in consequence.

Switch is having the same effect on XBO and PS4 sales in USA like Kinect had those years. It's the "hot item" now. It's the main selling point in every US videogame shop for this holiday season. It grabs all the attention, and people can spent so much money in videogames in the holidays....If you spend 300$ in a Switch, there's a lot less chances you buy a PS4 or XBO then.

And the fact that PS4 has been flat in 2016, 2017 and 2018 in USA....,well, maybe it wouldn't be flat if Switch didn't existed. PS4 went from around 6'8M sold in 2015 and 2016 to 7'8M sold in 2017 and 2018. USA did not see that same growth, why then?, why USA did not grew as Europe did?.

Last edited by colafitte - on 01 December 2019

colafitte said:

I'm not talking about having a peak year in year 3 or 4 in USA (which should have been normal considering what happened with PS1, PS2 and PS3). I'm saying that PS4 and XBO were ahead compared to last gen just before Switch launched and now they're going to end behind, when that is not going to happen in any other place not called Japan, another country/region where Switch has performed much better than PS4 in the last year or two.

Europe:

X360+PS3: around 61M
PS4+XBO: Already at 55M, they probably will end around 65-70M margin

Others:

X360+PS3: 21'5M
PS4+XBO: Already at 23M, they probably will end around 30M

*according to VGC data of course.

I don't know guys..., but Japan and US sales both have seen PS4 going down quickly and both have seen Switch going up quickly. If you consider that a coincidence..., well, we agree to disagree then.

I already addressed this, PS3/360 had slow starts and late peaks while PS4/XBO had stronger starts and earlier peaks. If Switch is the cause than we should have seen PS4/XBO display large YoY drops in 2017/2018 but they didnt.

As for your regional breakdown, Japan is a market in decline, it has little to do with Switch taking away from the others.

7th gen

PS3+360+Wii-~25 million

DS+PSP-~53 million

8th gen

PS4+XBO+Wii U-~12 million

3DS+Vita-~31 million

Saying that Switch is the cause of PS4 decline is ignoring so many different things.

Now for Europe & RotW, places like Eastern Europe, Latin America, Middle East, Southeast Asia, etc are what we call "emerging/developing markets" which means they have growing economies and growing consumer populations.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

colafitte said:

And that was my point. The "hot item" for USA during 2010-2012 was Kinect and affected a lot Wii (for a lot of different reasons too i admit) and PS3 sales. In Europe Kinect was not that big of a deal and PS3 was not affected in consequence.

Switch is having the same effect on XBO and PS4 sales in USA like Kinect had those years. It's the "hot item" now. It's the main selling point in every US videogame shop for this holiday season. It grabs all the attention, and people can spent so much money in videogames in the holidays....If you spend 300$ in a Switch, there's a lot less chances you buy a PS4 or XBO then.

It seems like there's a misunderstanding here. The charts pretty explicitly show that PS3 wasn't affected by Kinect in either the US or Europe, even as Xbox 360 skyrocketed in the US. Kinect didn't steal sales from PS3, it attracted sales from an audience that would not have purchased either of the HD twins otherwise.

The fact that you mention Wii actually detracts from your own argument. If you think Kinect caused a decline in Wii sales, then you acknowledge that it was the Kinect, rather than the base Gen 7 consoles, that had an overlap in audience with the Wii. This overlap does not exist between PS4 and Switch, because nothing like Kinect exists for the Gen 8 consoles.



zorg1000 said:

I already addressed this, PS3/360 had slow starts and late peaks while PS4/XBO had stronger starts and earlier peaks. If Switch is the cause than we should have seen PS4/XBO display large YoY drops in 2017/2018 but they didnt.

As for your regional breakdown, Japan is a market in decline, it has little to do with Switch taking away from the others.

7th gen

PS3+360+Wii-~25 million

DS+PSP-~53 million

8th gen

PS4+XBO+Wii U-~12 million

3DS+Vita-~31 million

Saying that Switch is the cause of PS4 decline is ignoring so many different things.

Now for Europe & RotW, places like Eastern Europe, Latin America, Middle East, Southeast Asia, etc are what we call "emerging/developing markets" which means they have growing economies and growing consumer populations.

And like i said in my previous post, if PS4+XBO had stronger starts, i suppose in Europe too, then why PS4 sales in Europe were 1M better in 2017 and 2018 than in 2015 and 2016?? Why PS4 peaked later in Europe, already the biggest and most established region of dominion for Playstation brand??? Why in USA did not happened the same?



Around the Network
StarDoor said:
colafitte said:

And that was my point. The "hot item" for USA during 2010-2012 was Kinect and affected a lot Wii (for a lot of different reasons too i admit) and PS3 sales. In Europe Kinect was not that big of a deal and PS3 was not affected in consequence.

Switch is having the same effect on XBO and PS4 sales in USA like Kinect had those years. It's the "hot item" now. It's the main selling point in every US videogame shop for this holiday season. It grabs all the attention, and people can spent so much money in videogames in the holidays....If you spend 300$ in a Switch, there's a lot less chances you buy a PS4 or XBO then.

It seems like there's a misunderstanding here. The charts pretty explicitly show that PS3 wasn't affected by Kinect in either the US or Europe, even as Xbox 360 skyrocketed in the US. Kinect didn't steal sales from PS3, it attracted sales from an audience that would not have purchased either of the HD twins otherwise.

The fact that you mention Wii actually detracts from your own argument. If you think Kinect caused a decline in Wii sales, then you acknowledge that it was the Kinect, rather than the base Gen 7 consoles, that had an overlap in audience with the Wii. This overlap does not exist between PS4 and Switch, because nothing like Kinect exists for the Gen 8 consoles.

I knew i should not have named Wii, even if i said it was from a lot of reasons. I knew you could bring me that back. Erase Wii then from the conversation, like if i never mentioned it.

The moment Wii declined could've been an opportunity to PS3 to up their sales in USA like it happened in the rest of western regions, but it didn't happened in USA because X360 occupied Wii place during those years. Saying Kinect audience would have not bought a PS3 instead is something we will never know for sure. Maybe there was an audience post Wii era that wanted a COD console to play and Kinect was the defining factor to choose a X360 instead of a PS3 in USA. You can't prove that it was not a possibility.



colafitte said:
zorg1000 said:

I already addressed this, PS3/360 had slow starts and late peaks while PS4/XBO had stronger starts and earlier peaks. If Switch is the cause than we should have seen PS4/XBO display large YoY drops in 2017/2018 but they didnt.

As for your regional breakdown, Japan is a market in decline, it has little to do with Switch taking away from the others.

7th gen

PS3+360+Wii-~25 million

DS+PSP-~53 million

8th gen

PS4+XBO+Wii U-~12 million

3DS+Vita-~31 million

Saying that Switch is the cause of PS4 decline is ignoring so many different things.

Now for Europe & RotW, places like Eastern Europe, Latin America, Middle East, Southeast Asia, etc are what we call "emerging/developing markets" which means they have growing economies and growing consumer populations.

And like i said in my previous post, if PS4+XBO had stronger starts, i suppose in Europe too, then why PS4 sales in Europe were 1M better in 2017 and 2018 than in 2015 and 2016?? Why PS4 peaked later in Europe, already the biggest and most established region of dominion for Playstation brand??? Why in USA did not happened the same?

Read my last paragraph again, developing markets such as Eastern Europe, Latin America, Middle East &Southeast Asia are growing in economy and consumer spending but they are not yet on par with the developed regions like North America, Western Europe & Japan.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

colafitte said:
StarDoor said:

It seems like there's a misunderstanding here. The charts pretty explicitly show that PS3 wasn't affected by Kinect in either the US or Europe, even as Xbox 360 skyrocketed in the US. Kinect didn't steal sales from PS3, it attracted sales from an audience that would not have purchased either of the HD twins otherwise.

The fact that you mention Wii actually detracts from your own argument. If you think Kinect caused a decline in Wii sales, then you acknowledge that it was the Kinect, rather than the base Gen 7 consoles, that had an overlap in audience with the Wii. This overlap does not exist between PS4 and Switch, because nothing like Kinect exists for the Gen 8 consoles.

I knew i should not have named Wii, even if i said it was from a lot of reasons. I knew you could bring me that back. Erase Wii then from the conversation, like if i never mentioned it.

The moment Wii declined could've been an opportunity to PS3 to up their sales in USA like it happened in the rest of western regions, but it didn't happened in USA because X360 occupied Wii place during those years. Saying Kinect audience would have not bought a PS3 instead is something we will never know for sure. Maybe there was an audience post Wii era that wanted a COD console to play and Kinect was the defining factor to choose a X360 instead of a PS3 in USA. You can't prove that it was not a possibility.

This is just as applicable to your argument as it is to mine. "Saying the Switch audience would have bought a PS4 instead if Switch didn't exist is something we will never know for sure." We may never know for sure, but we can speculate based on the data we have. I think there's far more evidence of the Xbox 360 reaching outside the typical Sony/Microsoft audience than there is of the Switch stealing sales from PS4/XOne.

Speaking of data, here's more of it:

North America Europe Japan Rest of World Global
PS2 + Xbox 69.42M 62.45M 23.71M 26.75M 182.33M
PS3 + Xbox 360 78.53M 60.86M 12.13M 21.69M 173.21M
% Change +13.12% -2.55% -48.84% -18.92% -5.00%

http://www.vgchartz.com/analysis/platform_totals/

It's no coincidence that Gen 7 sold considerably more in North America than Gen 6 despite declining in every other region. Gen 8 won't reach Gen 7 in the US because Kinect gave Xbox 360 wider appeal than a typical Sony/Microsoft console. That's all there is to it.

Your argument follows the same thought process as "consoles are dying because WiiU+XOne+PS4 are way behind Wii+360+PS3." Consumers are perfectly fine with not buying any console during a generation if they're all unappealing. It doesn't mean the audience has shrunk, or moved somewhere else.



colafitte said:
peachbuggy said:

The data you are referring to is SW not HW.

Yes, i was about to edit that because it made no sense...., i will change it. I was watching the end of the Lakers v Mavs game and i was not paying enough attention at what i was reading...., my apologies.....

Np. I thought I should check the article anyway, as Charttrack very rarely give out HW figures and I was amazed they would have such quick access to them at this particularly hectic time of year!



DON'T WIN ME CHIBI BUDDY DON'T WIN ME.

ANIMAL CROSSING NEW LEAF FRIEND CODE:- 5129 1175 1029. MESSAGE ME.
ANDY MURRAY:- GRAND SLAM WINNER!

In my opinion the N64 was not just the best console of the 5th gen but, to this day the best console ever created!

zorg1000 said:
colafitte said:

And like i said in my previous post, if PS4+XBO had stronger starts, i suppose in Europe too, then why PS4 sales in Europe were 1M better in 2017 and 2018 than in 2015 and 2016?? Why PS4 peaked later in Europe, already the biggest and most established region of dominion for Playstation brand??? Why in USA did not happened the same?

Read my last paragraph again, developing markets such as Eastern Europe, Latin America, Middle East &Southeast Asia are growing in economy and consumer spending but they are not yet on par with the developed regions like North America, Western Europe & Japan.

In Spain, a western developed market, PS4 sold 535k in 2015, 560k in 2016, 585k in 2017 and 590k in 2018. So is just not developing markets in other parts of he world....I'm pretty sure in France, Italy, Germany and other european markets PS4 sold more in 2017 or 2018 than in 2015 or 2016. I seriously doubt any european country had PS4 peak in 2015 like what happened in USA.