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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - The cuts for the Sw/Sh dex were worse than even the most pessimistic predictions

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Lonely_Dolphin said:

Dayum, I expected 100-200 being cut. Guess I'm still underestimating Gamefreak's incompetence.

uran10 said:

There is rumor that once you beat the game the pokedex expands to over 600. I don't remember the exact number cause I've been dodging spoilers as best I can. Either way, if this 600 thing is true or not, well it is what it is. Disappointing but whatever

Why "but whatever" though? Why settle for laziness and mediocrity when you could just not and instead get a game that actually has effort put into it? Just curious is all, it's your money so you're free to do what you want with it.

No I don't have a lot of money but I've been looking forward to this for a while now. Am I disappointed? Yes. But will I enjoy the game? Yes. I'm more on the casual side than any other and while it does suck that my fave 2 pokemon didn't make the cut, I'm interested in seeing pokemon on the switch and what they have in store for us. I'm seeing lots of effort put into other areas of the game so while losing dex hurts, its not all bad.



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Chrkeller said:
"So noone can criticise a product before it comes out?"

Yes, IMHO. Until I have hands on experience anything I say is conjecture/speculation. I wouldn't judge a restaurant I haven't eaten at. I wouldn't judge a book I haven't read. I could list more examples, but I think you get the point. As for the rest of your nonsense, gaming development costs are far higher than previously. Stating otherwise is either a flat out lie or reeks of ignorance. Either way, meh.

"Reeks of ignorance" says the guy who just ignored almost everything that was said, that believes no facts can be known about a game before it outs even if they come directly from the developers. You know you can like a thing and still acknowledge what's objectively bad about it, there's no need to deny reality in order to defend it.



Lonely_Dolphin said:
Chrkeller said:
"So noone can criticise a product before it comes out?"

Yes, IMHO. Until I have hands on experience anything I say is conjecture/speculation. I wouldn't judge a restaurant I haven't eaten at. I wouldn't judge a book I haven't read. I could list more examples, but I think you get the point. As for the rest of your nonsense, gaming development costs are far higher than previously. Stating otherwise is either a flat out lie or reeks of ignorance. Either way, meh.

"Reeks of ignorance" says the guy who just ignored almost everything that was said, that believes no facts can be known about a game before it outs even if they come directly from the developers. You know you can like a thing and still acknowledge what's objectively bad about it, there's no need to deny reality in order to defend it.

Yes I tend to ignore red herrings and side crap that is irrelevant.  I play games before deciding things such as "I'm paying more for less."  I have no problems with criticisms, I just (strongly) believe said criticisms should be on the final product after personal experience.  I remember in my younger days being mad as **** when Wind Waker was first shown.  I thought Nintendo killed Zelda and was furious with the cell aspects of the graphic engine.  Turns out WW is one of my all time favorite games.  Lesson learned.  Relax, judge the final product.  I mean most in this thread are worried about content....  but haven't played the game.  That is just stupid.  

Edit

And yes, I am fine with 400.  I don't see collecting all 400.  They could add another 1,000 and it wouldn't matter to me.  I wouldn't collect that many Pokemon.  I would rather them cut Pokemon and put focus on the story, environments and in the battle system.  A balanced battle system matters far more than having tons of Pokemon.  Again this reminds me of people complaining that Forza only has 200 cars...  when most play the game and use 30 cars....   



On the plus side, Hitmonlee made it in! On the minus side, no legendaries except for mew??? I understand GF throwing a bone to those who didn't buy the pokeball+ attachment but bought lets go but omitting the other legendaries is plain stupid imo. Also no UB's? That's just a plain insult to those of us for whatever reason didn't buy US/UM, It seems we are being punished for that and will never be able to use the last 4(?) UB's or the electric legendary exclusive to US/UM. Nintendo/GF also used to tease a new gen pokemon for future games, in spin-offs (See munchlax). In let's go it was melmetal. This time.... not even available. So the only chance we get to play with it is a thorough grind through PoGo and let's go. Completely unacceptable in my book. Also, as others have said, I play competitively and it's nice to have a lot of choice of pokemon to play from. There were many different pokemon in my teams, which I had spent hours competitively breeding. Some I liked, some I just found viable to use competitively. I understand that possibly making a few cuts could be deemed necessary to keep the metagame balanced but come on! It's not a cut it's a brutal bloodbath! There are so many cut that I used competitively and i'm sure many others that others did too. They cut Garchomp FGS! Not only is it a lot of fans' favourites but pretty much a "Darling" of the competitive scene since gen 4! I doubt i'll even play competitively from here on out, unless I find a niche I like, or if they somehow manage to release most of the "old" pokemon through DLC or patches. It is a pretty scummy business practice if i'm honest though.



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Chrkeller said:

Yes I tend to ignore red herrings and side crap that is irrelevant.

You tend to ignore inconvenient truths that prove you wrong is what you mean. I'd love to hear you explain how information about the game from the game itself is an irrelevant red herring though.



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Nah I'm good. I don't like talking to a wall. I'll make a judgment once the game is out. That simply is how I personally roll. I don't do pre-judgment.



Chrkeller said:
Lonely_Dolphin said:

"Reeks of ignorance" says the guy who just ignored almost everything that was said, that believes no facts can be known about a game before it outs even if they come directly from the developers. You know you can like a thing and still acknowledge what's objectively bad about it, there's no need to deny reality in order to defend it.

Yes I tend to ignore red herrings and side crap that is irrelevant.  I play games before deciding things such as "I'm paying more for less."  I have no problems with criticisms, I just (strongly) believe said criticisms should be on the final product after personal experience.  I remember in my younger days being mad as **** when Wind Waker was first shown.  I thought Nintendo killed Zelda and was furious with the cell aspects of the graphic engine.  Turns out WW is one of my all time favorite games.  Lesson learned.  Relax, judge the final product.  I mean most in this thread are worried about content....  but haven't played the game.  That is just stupid.  

Edit

And yes, I am fine with 400.  I don't see collecting all 400.  They could add another 1,000 and it wouldn't matter to me.  I wouldn't collect that many Pokemon.  I would rather them cut Pokemon and put focus on the story, environments and in the battle system.  A balanced battle system matters far more than having tons of Pokemon.  Again this reminds me of people complaining that Forza only has 200 cars...  when most play the game and use 30 cars....   

Once again, piece by piece.

I play games before deciding things such as "I'm paying more for less."  I have no problems with criticisms, I just (strongly) believe said criticisms should be on the final product after personal experience. 

Just because one product turned out to defy all expectations doesn't mean being critical to preview content is bad. Companies will put forward the best part of the games for marketing, after all, and if that part is already flawed, there are reasons to believe there are problems abound. If they want their audience to be excited by their product, they should also accept the risk of dissapointing them, otherwise just dump the game in stores and don't market it at all. Besides, the example of WW is not a valid comparison with Sw/Sh, since that game's matter was art direction, not lacking content.

I am fine with 400.  I don't see collecting all 400.  They could add another 1,000 and it wouldn't matter to me.  I wouldn't collect that many Pokemon.  I would rather them cut Pokemon and put focus on the story, environments and in the battle system.  A balanced battle system matters far more than having tons of Pokemon. 

The attitude of "I'm fine because they didn't take what I like" is a rather harmful and selfish one. It relies on just being happy because the cuts don't affect you, while ignoring the people to whom they did. Someone's favourite feature might be totally ignored by someone else, but it's still a feature worth having. There's also the fact that it's a slippery slope that tends to go worse and worse as time goes on.

And a balanced battle system needs variety to develop strategies and counters for them, something immediately threatened by the cut of both pokemons, attacks and battle modes. A balanced system needs as many pokemons as it can.

Again this reminds me of people complaining that Forza only has 200 cars...  when most play the game and use 30 cars....   

But do all Forza players use the same exact 30 cars, or do they use different combinations of 30 cars out of the total pool of 200 cars?



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Chrkeller said:
Nah I'm good. I don't like talking to a wall. I'll make a judgment once the game is out. That simply is how I personally roll. I don't do pre-judgment.

Cute, but we both know it's because you can't explain it as what you said there is complete bullshit. To try would only make you look like a fool, though you're well past that point.



Lonely_Dolphin said:
Chrkeller said:
Nah I'm good. I don't like talking to a wall. I'll make a judgment once the game is out. That simply is how I personally roll. I don't do pre-judgment.

Cute, but we both know it's because you can't explain it as what you said there is complete bullshit. To try would only make you look like a fool, though you're well past that point.

Says the person who is complaining about Game Freak being lazy, while having a thread dedicated about how he doesn't want to work and wants advice on how to game the system....  lol



Chrkeller said:

Says the person who is complaining about Game Freak being lazy, while having a thread dedicated about how he doesn't want to work and wants advice on how to game the system....  lol

And? Just because I'm lazy doesn't mean Game Freak isn't. Talk about an irrelevant red herring. If you have nothing left to say in your defense I'd suggest you stop now.