Quantcast
Console Wars are mostly dead...

Forums - Gaming Discussion - Console Wars are mostly dead...

The Console wars were something I was interested in as a kid, seeing adults take it seriously is pretty sad.



Around the Network
NobleTeam360 said:
The Console wars were something I was interested in as a kid, seeing adults take it seriously is pretty sad.

Can you quantify your sadness?

Let's say, in a scale where 0 is the XBO sales and 100 is the PS4 sales, for reference.



BraLoD said:
NobleTeam360 said:
The Console wars were something I was interested in as a kid, seeing adults take it seriously is pretty sad.

Can you quantify your sadness?

Let's say, in a scale where 0 is the XBO sales and 100 is the PS4 sales, for reference.

Ok, I laughed harder than I should have at this.



thismeintiel said:
The_Liquid_Laser said:

Yes, I know how to recognize a straw man.  It's where you make someone else have a worse argument, so that you can defeat it easily.  It looks exactly like how you first replied to me:

thismeinteil said:
"The Saturn launched months before the PS1.  The Dreamcast launched over a year before the PS2.  There's much more to it than launching early.  By your reasoning, those two should have been successes."

Notice how you are reasoning for me and coming to a conclusion that I definitely don't agree with.  That is a textbook version of what a straw man argument looks like.

Except your argument was exactly that.  That launching early definitely helps.  Your words, not mine.  You said it was because it gave the earlier console time to adjust price and gain a year's worth of a gaming library.  I simply pointed out how that is wrong.  You can call that a strawman all day if you want, but that is just refuting your actual point.  The Dreamcast ultimately destroys your conclusion.  It launched over a year before the PS2.  It launched for $100 less than the PS2 and they even dropped the price by $50 in time for the PS2 launch.  And it had a decent library already out and announced to come.  It still failed.  Even against consoles that launched 2 years after it launched, when it was $99.

You also said power was a factor that does not help and waiting to launch is always a bad move.  Again, your words, not mine.  I won't repeat my argument about that, again, but I also explained why that won't matter for core gamers.

Read the part I bolded.  Now read the part I originally said below.

The_Liquid_Laser said:

Releasing early helps quite a bit.  Given it can't save a console doomed to fail like the Saturn or Wii U.  But if the console has some potential, then an early start can give it a much bigger advantage.

See how the Dreamcast doesn't destroy my argument?  Given, the Dreamcast does destroy the strawman argument that you have been trying to give me this whole time.  That is the whole point of a strawman though.  Anyone can defeat a strawman argument. 



BraLoD said:
NobleTeam360 said:
The Console wars were something I was interested in as a kid, seeing adults take it seriously is pretty sad.

Can you quantify your sadness?

Let's say, in a scale where 0 is the XBO sales and 100 is the PS4 sales, for reference.

100



Around the Network

I still love the "phones killed portables" assumption. 

DS sales were explosive and unrepeatable in the same manner that PS2 sales were explosive and unrepeatable. A PS3 with no Blu-Ray, a standardized CPU, and a $400 price point wouldn't have sold as much as the PS2.  A 2DS XL launching at $170 in 2011 with good first party games would never have gotten near DS lifetime sales. 


3DS was overpriced, and tiny, with an 8 month drought of games to start the system off. 

Vita was a train wreck on just about every level. It was the Wii U of handhelds. 

Many PSP/Vita customers were never going to switch over to 3DS for portable gaming. Those PSP/Vita gamers wanted portable FPS and console style adventure games. 3DS was never going to have those. (Part of Switch's success is that it does offer those type of games, and that has in turn brought much of the Vita/PSP crowd to the system.) So you can't just point to the total handheld lifetime sales of Vita + 3DS and go "See you guys the market shrank from 230 million with DS/PSP to 93 million with Vita/3DS! "

The bolded statement above is just as dumb as Pachter's "Oh hey you guys Wii + 360 + PS3 lifetime sales is more than Wii U + XB1 + PS4 lifetimes sales! Therefore the console market is shrinking!"

Pachter fails to take into account the fact that there was less of a reason to own both HD Twins in the PS4/XB1 era due to PS4 being able to play virtually all the games XB1 had and vastly more. There's a huge 30-40 game gap in the XB1 to PS4 libraries when it comes to games rated at 80% or higher on Opencritic. This gap is in PS4's favor. 360 on the other hand went toe to toe with PS3 in terms of exclusives and 3rd party support. Now that XB1 lacks enough exclusives and 3rd party support to compete most people just stopped buying both an MS and a PS system, because there was no need. 

Anyway you can't just "bean counter" it up and go "oh see this gen is losing to last gen!" Those are the same people that point out that 3DS + Wii U is currently beating Switch lifetime sales, without taking into account that many people owned both a 3DS and a Wii U, (for the purposes of having access to all Nintendo games) but nobody needs to own two Switches to play all Nintendo games. 

Last edited by Cerebralbore101 - on 04 November 2019

The sentence below is false. 
The sentence above is true. 

The_Liquid_Laser said:

thismeintiel said:

Except your argument was exactly that.  That launching early definitely helps.  Your words, not mine.  You said it was because it gave the earlier console time to adjust price and gain a year's worth of a gaming library.  I simply pointed out how that is wrong.  You can call that a strawman all day if you want, but that is just refuting your actual point.  The Dreamcast ultimately destroys your conclusion.  It launched over a year before the PS2.  It launched for $100 less than the PS2 and they even dropped the price by $50 in time for the PS2 launch.  And it had a decent library already out and announced to come.  It still failed.  Even against consoles that launched 2 years after it launched, when it was $99.

You also said power was a factor that does not help and waiting to launch is always a bad move.  Again, your words, not mine.  I won't repeat my argument about that, again, but I also explained why that won't matter for core gamers.

Read the part I bolded.  Now read the part I originally said below.

The_Liquid_Laser said:

Releasing early helps quite a bit.  Given it can't save a console doomed to fail like the Saturn or Wii U.  But if the console has some potential, then an early start can give it a much bigger advantage.

See how the Dreamcast doesn't destroy my argument?  Given, the Dreamcast does destroy the strawman argument that you have been trying to give me this whole time.  That is the whole point of a strawman though.  Anyone can defeat a strawman argument. 

Lol. So, any console that doesn't fit your little narrative, i.e. defeats your argument, you just wave it away by saying it was doomed to fail.  Oh, boy.



thismeintiel said:
BraLoD said:

Can you quantify your sadness?

Let's say, in a scale where 0 is the XBO sales and 100 is the PS4 sales, for reference.

Ok, I laughed harder than I should have at this.

Nah, it would have been funny if 0 was PS Vita sales. Now that's hilarious. 



thismeintiel said:
The_Liquid_Laser said:

Read the part I bolded.  Now read the part I originally said below.

See how the Dreamcast doesn't destroy my argument?  Given, the Dreamcast does destroy the strawman argument that you have been trying to give me this whole time.  That is the whole point of a strawman though.  Anyone can defeat a strawman argument. 

Lol. So, any console that doesn't fit your little narrative, i.e. defeats your argument, you just wave it away by saying it was doomed to fail.  Oh, boy.

Don't you think the Dreamcast was doomed to fail?



NobleTeam360 said:
thismeintiel said:

Ok, I laughed harder than I should have at this.

Nah, it would have been funny if 0 was PS Vita sales. Now that's hilarious. 

But he didn't say 3DS was 100.

Besides, I thought you just said you hated console war stuff.  Tsk. Tsk. Tsk.