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Forums - Sony Discussion - PS4 is way past the time for another price cut

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Pemalite on 30 October 2019
JRPGfan said:

Switch is older tech & weaker than the PS4.

Switch is weaker, yes.
Switch's chip is not older however.

Maxwell is a far more modern GPU uArch than Graphics Core Next 1.0 in the Playstation 4.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

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zorg1000 on 30 October 2019
twintail said:
BraLoD said:

Having the PS4 taking a big quick drop in sales is bad.

They'll make more money selling more games in more systems than profiting with hardware sales.

The PS4 is already expected to sell 15% less than what they thought 6 months ago.

It's clear their strategy is not working as expected anymore, and in a quick rate, it's time to give it an interest boost.

And as their best games are coming next year, this year should definitely have a price cut.

Sony holding this much the price is unprecedent, regardless of the system success.

I know they have a reason for doing it, they always have, but it's clearly not working right now.

Will that 15% drop off in sales be made up for with lower revenue from a cheaper PS4?

And don't forget, TLOU2 just recently went from being in Q4 of their current fiscal year, to now being in Q1 of their next fiscal year. That is why there is a reduction in their projected PS4 hardware performance. 

Its part of the reason, there is no way one game releasing that late in the FY was going to shift 1.5m units of hardware by itself.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

jlauro on 30 October 2019
JRPGfan said:

Nintendo doesnt follow logic..... their consoles have a habbit of being old tech or behinde the curve compaired to competition.
You could argue they are a gen behinde imo, and some gens have 2 consoles (short cycles x2 vs others 1 long).

You completely misunderstand Nintendo and tech.  The wii was all SSD storage, and Sony and Xbox are only getting around to that next year.  The use of bluetooth and motion controls were also ahead of the curve.  Nothing in the Wii was old tech.  However, the difference with Nintendo is they go after affordable mainstream tech in their designs, and only pick leading edge tech if it's affordable to produce and gives them a unique advantage.  Where as Sony / Microsoft push to the leading edge more on the "specs".  The wii might not of been bleeding edge, but it was by no means old tech even compared to the PS3 and 360, it just wasn't as spec heavy, and thus did not cost as much.



SammyGiireal on 30 October 2019
jlauro said:
JRPGfan said:

Nintendo doesnt follow logic..... their consoles have a habbit of being old tech or behinde the curve compaired to competition.
You could argue they are a gen behinde imo, and some gens have 2 consoles (short cycles x2 vs others 1 long).

You completely misunderstand Nintendo and tech.  The wii was all SSD storage, and Sony and Xbox are only getting around to that next year.  The use of bluetooth and motion controls were also ahead of the curve.  Nothing in the Wii was old tech.  However, the difference with Nintendo is they go after affordable mainstream tech in their designs, and only pick leading edge tech if it's affordable to produce and gives them a unique advantage.  Where as Sony / Microsoft push to the leading edge more on the "specs".  The wii might not of been bleeding edge, but it was by no means old tech even compared to the PS3 and 360, it just wasn't as spec heavy, and thus did not cost as much.

The Wii was an upclocked Game Cube with motion controls. It was the biggest money grab in Nintendo's home console history. It was in fact less powerful than 2001's Xbox. I considered the machine part of that PS3/360 Gen simply because it was released along side the PS3 in 2006, but the guts of the machine were out dated and it showed.



Tridrakious on 31 October 2019

Sony is focusing on profit for now. However, I do see them dropping the price for the holidays and then just keeping that price for the remainder of the PS4's lifecycle.



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zorg1000 on 31 October 2019
twintail said:
zorg1000 said:

Its part of the reason, there is no way one game releasing that late in the FY was going to shift 1.5m units of hardware by itself.

I don't disagree but i think it's debatable. 

Potentially they were expecting ps4 sales in relation to tlou2 to occur over a few months, Nov to end march. Now those might be delayed. 

But i don't disagree with you.  There is something else at play. 

Ya i guess you could make the argument that some people who want a PS4 for TLOU2 would get one over the holidays but might hold off now.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

DonFerrari on 31 October 2019
BraLoD said:
For people talking about the sales performance.
The PS2 is the most successful console ever and it was over 50% discounted by its 6th year.
I'm not disputing the PS4 success, but the profit strategy is starting to lose power.
The system is old and it's a year away from being replaced, it's really time to make it cheap.
I also thought about the strategy of holding a $250 PS4 to the $500 PS5 announcement, but with it being BC that doesn't make sense.
The PS5 will have a lot of perceived value in all fronts including playing your PS4 games, keeping the PS4 at only half the PS5 price will utterly kill its legs.
Profit is nice, that's for sure, but the PS4 has already given Sony more than they could imagine, it's time to focus on making those Playstations land on how many more homes they can.
You buy a PS4 and then you can trade it in for a PS5 like 2 years later and keep all the games you bought.
The PS4 needs to be cheap or it'll be another PS3 with "small" legs.

Yep, cutting price and getting additional PS+ subs plus some people tied to their system until they go for PS5 could also help they more long term than just doing a little more money per HW sold in the short term.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari on 31 October 2019
BraLoD said:
DonFerrari said:

Yep, cutting price and getting additional PS+ subs plus some people tied to their system until they go for PS5 could also help they more long term than just doing a little more money per HW sold in the short term.

They really lost the chance this year, there was no major exclusive until mid november, they should have cut the price in September.

I really hope they don't hold it $300 until the time to fully reveal the PS5 next year and then cut it to $250.

PS4 sales will fall like a rock.

Fall from the cliff.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Pemalite on 31 October 2019
jlauro said:

You completely misunderstand Nintendo and tech.  The wii was all SSD storage, and Sony and Xbox are only getting around to that next year. 

The Wii/WiiU used emmc NAND, which was dog slow... Which is why the Wii and WiiU interface was so slow and clunky, it wasn't using a fast SSD... In-fact it wouldn't surprise me if a fast mechanical hard drive was faster than the Wii and WiiU's storage. (I.E. Not the slow 5400rpm mechanical drives in our current consoles.)

jlauro said:

Nothing in the Wii was old tech.  However, the difference with Nintendo is they go after affordable mainstream tech in their designs, and only pick leading edge tech if it's affordable to produce and gives them a unique advantage.  Where as Sony / Microsoft push to the leading edge more on the "specs".  The wii might not of been bleeding edge, but it was by no means old tech even compared to the PS3 and 360, it just wasn't as spec heavy, and thus did not cost as much.

The CPU/GPU/Ram in the Wii was old technology, based upon the technology in the preceding console, the Gamecube.
And even the emmc NAND is old as it's been around since the 90's... emmc is cheap, nasty and good for cost-sensitive devices like a console.

The bulk of the Wii's innovation was sunk into the controllers, which... Despite being "done" before wasn't done in such a convenient package.

SammyGiireal said:

The Wii was an upclocked Game Cube with motion controls. It was the biggest money grab in Nintendo's home console history. It was in fact less powerful than 2001's Xbox. I considered the machine part of that PS3/360 Gen simply because it was released along side the PS3 in 2006, but the guts of the machine were out dated and it showed.

Nintendo also had motion control support for the Gamecube at some point too.
https://www.kotaku.com.au/2018/10/prototype-wii-remote-from-the-gamecube-era-sells-at-auction/

In fairness though, the Wii did have a few technical advantages over the OG Xbox, especially in the texturing department... Although the Xbox's mechanical hard drive would potentially have allowed for texture/mesh streaming to save on memory. (Which didn't become a standard thing until the mid 7th gen with Modern Warefare 2.)

And then you have the pixel shaders, something the Wii lacks. - Although technically with the TEV you can leverage it's functionality to theoretically perform the same effects but with a corresponding hit to performance as you needed multiple passes.

Shadow1980 said:
Price cuts this late in a system's life have minimal effect. The increase in sales, if any, are likely to be insufficient to justify less per-unit revenue. And it's not like the PS4 has atrocious sales. It's definitely post-peak and declining, but not to a degree so pressing that Sony needs to cut the price.

The flipside to that is there is a potential need to "lock" customers into their ecosystem, it's an easier task to ask people to migrate to a newer console if they already support all your subscription based services.

It should be interesting either way.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

SammyGiireal on 31 October 2019
Pemalite said:
jlauro said:

You completely misunderstand Nintendo and tech.  The wii was all SSD storage, and Sony and Xbox are only getting around to that next year. 

The Wii/WiiU used emmc NAND, which was dog slow... Which is why the Wii and WiiU interface was so slow and clunky, it wasn't using a fast SSD... In-fact it wouldn't surprise me if a fast mechanical hard drive was faster than the Wii and WiiU's storage. (I.E. Not the slow 5400rpm mechanical drives in our current consoles.)

jlauro said:

Nothing in the Wii was old tech.  However, the difference with Nintendo is they go after affordable mainstream tech in their designs, and only pick leading edge tech if it's affordable to produce and gives them a unique advantage.  Where as Sony / Microsoft push to the leading edge more on the "specs".  The wii might not of been bleeding edge, but it was by no means old tech even compared to the PS3 and 360, it just wasn't as spec heavy, and thus did not cost as much.

The CPU/GPU/Ram in the Wii was old technology, based upon the technology in the preceding console, the Gamecube.
And even the emmc NAND is old as it's been around since the 90's... emmc is cheap, nasty and good for cost-sensitive devices like a console.

The bulk of the Wii's innovation was sunk into the controllers, which... Despite being "done" before wasn't done in such a convenient package.

SammyGiireal said:

The Wii was an upclocked Game Cube with motion controls. It was the biggest money grab in Nintendo's home console history. It was in fact less powerful than 2001's Xbox. I considered the machine part of that PS3/360 Gen simply because it was released along side the PS3 in 2006, but the guts of the machine were out dated and it showed.

Nintendo also had motion control support for the Gamecube at some point too.
https://www.kotaku.com.au/2018/10/prototype-wii-remote-from-the-gamecube-era-sells-at-auction/

In fairness though, the Wii did have a few technical advantages over the OG Xbox, especially in the texturing department... Although the Xbox's mechanical hard drive would potentially have allowed for texture/mesh streaming to save on memory. (Which didn't become a standard thing until the mid 7th gen with Modern Warefare 2.)

And then you have the pixel shaders, something the Wii lacks. - Although technically with the TEV you can leverage it's functionality to theoretically perform the same effects but with a corresponding hit to performance as you needed multiple passes.

Shadow1980 said:
Price cuts this late in a system's life have minimal effect. The increase in sales, if any, are likely to be insufficient to justify less per-unit revenue. And it's not like the PS4 has atrocious sales. It's definitely post-peak and declining, but not to a degree so pressing that Sony needs to cut the price.

The flipside to that is there is a potential need to "lock" customers into their ecosystem, it's an easier task to ask people to migrate to a newer console if they already support all your subscription based services.

It should be interesting either way.

Thank you for the more elaborate tech explanation.