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How would you feel if the PS5 dev kit design was actually the PS5 design?

Forums - Sony Discussion - How would you feel if the PS5 dev kit design was actually the PS5 design?

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What do you think?

I would be fine with that 19 24.05%
 
It's irrelevant 9 11.39%
 
That looks pretty bad 15 18.99%
 
AMAZING! 8 10.13%
 
That s**t looks awful! 12 15.19%
 
Did we go back to the 90's? 3 3.80%
 
V for Vendetta 3 3.80%
 
Would rather have it look like a box 4 5.06%
 
I just threw up in my mouth a little bit 5 6.33%
 
Should continue to stack ... 1 1.27%
 
Total:79
Machiavellian said:
I am guessing the real question is how much Sony is willing to each the cost of bringing an expensive console to market. Would they be willing to go back to the PS3 days and sell the console at 600 bones while eating 800+ or more. Somehow I believe those days are over. I believe Sony just like MS isn't willing to lost leader a lot anymore killing their profit and margins and be in a situation like Sony did where the PS3 pretty much cleaned up all profits gain during the PS2 lifespan.

Sony will be definitely bitting the bullet on the price with the PS5. Dunno if they'll go as far as those $200 losses from the early PS3 days, but they will take at least $100 of their pocket, IMO.

Why? PSN/PS+ are HUGE, Sony has even more incentive to eat losses early this gen then ever before, because the profit just won't stop coming as soon as someone brings a PS5 home.



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Pemalite said:
EricHiggin said:

No they didn't, but do we really expect it to be anymore than $500? Would it be highly likely that $600 would be the absolute max they would dare to go? So a $600 PC then? How much faster would the SSD be in a $600 PC vs a $500 PC?

Well what's the difference between customization vs "special customization"?

That's just shifting the goal post, which is a logical fallacy. - Sony made a very blanket statement.

For starters we have zero idea what the Playstation 5 will cost, Sony hasn't announced pricing.
Secondly, Sony never mentioned PC pricing at all... So any comparisons involving price can't be done.

Thirdly, my above quoted post with Ryzen 3000 and x570 already answers your question.

Ok, so we're both guessing at something, since neither of us know for sure, and neither of us are suggesting anything that would be highly unlikely or out of the question, and yet $500 for the PS5 is ridiculous enough for you to brush it off like it means nothing, yet PS basing the SSD off of existing standards and tech should be taken more seriously? It's not like we don't know what consoles used to cost, presently cost, or what they could cost, based on many factors. You're right that PS hasn't said anything about price, other than Cerny saying, "it'll be appealing to gamers in light of it's advanced feature set", but they also haven't said anything about the SSD, other than it uses PCIe 4.0 and will load really fast.

While using existing tech with minor customizations is totally possible based on PS4's semi-custom tech, the PS4 was also coming off of a terrible gen for PS themselves, and going into a world of 'consoles are dead'. PS5 is coming off PS4 like PS3 came off PS2, and we all know what that led to. Now while I by no means think we're likely getting anything as unique or expensive as the PS3 was, I think expecting PS5 to simply be an upgraded Pro is setting the bar to low. I would guess we're going to see less minor semi custom tech, and more significant semi custom tech.

How much do you think the PS5 will be, based on whatever factors you would use at this time to make a reasonable guess?



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BraLoD said:
Machiavellian said:
I am guessing the real question is how much Sony is willing to each the cost of bringing an expensive console to market. Would they be willing to go back to the PS3 days and sell the console at 600 bones while eating 800+ or more. Somehow I believe those days are over. I believe Sony just like MS isn't willing to lost leader a lot anymore killing their profit and margins and be in a situation like Sony did where the PS3 pretty much cleaned up all profits gain during the PS2 lifespan.

Sony will be definitely bitting the bullet on the price with the PS5. Dunno if they'll go as far as those $200 losses from the early PS3 days, but they will take at least $100 of their pocket, IMO.

Why? PSN/PS+ are HUGE, Sony has even more incentive to eat losses early this gen then ever before, because the profit just won't stop coming as soon as someone brings a PS5 home.

I agree with this. Also explains the PS Now movement we are seeing. I think Sony will want to avoid having to lose on hardware but digital is such a huge revenue maker for them that a $100 loss per unit could keep them in an ok position. Pricing is going to be an interesting piece of news.



Pemalite said:
CuCabeludo said:

Sony big shots are saying it. A heavily customized SSD with higher bandwidths you can see on PC. They are straight up lying then.

Yes they are certainly being disingenuous.
In saying that, they are trying to amp-up/promote their console, so there is always dubious claims everytime we enter a new console generation... The frustrating part is that everyone tends to take it as gospel and thus believe it.

PCI-E 4.0 NVMe drives will theoretically top out at around 8GB/s of sequential reads, which is likely what the Playstation 5 will have, taking advantage of AMD's latest technology. - That is stupidly fast whichever way you cut the cake considering most SSD setups today top out at around 4GB/s thanks to PCI-E 3.0 bandwidth limitations.

But the PC can do PCI-E 4.0 x16, and it can do RAID. - Epyc comes with 128x PCI-E 4.0 lanes, which is a theoretical max of 256GB/s of aggregate PCI-E bandwidth available for an SSD setup. - Which is simply an impossible number for a console to cost effectively have for next-gen.

PCI-E 5.0 will likely be available in 2022, Intel will support it with LGA 4677 sockets... And that could theoretically take it to 512GB/s or half a Terabyte per second.
PCI-E 6.0 is being ratified right now with system implementations after that, which will likely double things again.

aren't you being a bit disingenuous yourself here?

Unless I missed a more recent comment, Cerny said it was better than anything in current PCs when PCI-E 4.0 wasn't released. And an Epyc CPU is not something for "PCs" (_personal_ computers), it's server hardware. The kind of raids you describe are extremely unlikely to be used for personal/private use.

Last edited by Lafiel - on 18 October 2019

CuCabeludo said:

Pemalite said:

The Playstation 5 will not have an SSD faster than what PC's can have.

Sony big shots are saying it. A heavily customized SSD with higher bandwidths you can see on PC. They are straight up lying then.

It's worth noting WHEN they said this. Back in April. Before PCIE-4 SSD's became available for use in PC's. So I wouldn't say straight up lying, it was just a very time limited statement.

The SSD they're going to put in the PS5 was better than any current PC SSD when they made the statement.

Edit: And now I see that the post before me already says exactly this... nice.



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EricHiggin said:
Pemalite said:

Yes they are certainly being disingenuous.
In saying that, they are trying to amp-up/promote their console, so there is always dubious claims everytime we enter a new console generation... The frustrating part is that everyone tends to take it as gospel and thus believe it.

PCI-E 4.0 NVMe drives will theoretically top out at around 8GB/s of sequential reads, which is likely what the Playstation 5 will have, taking advantage of AMD's latest technology. - That is stupidly fast whichever way you cut the cake considering most SSD setups today top out at around 4GB/s thanks to PCI-E 3.0 bandwidth limitations.

But the PC can do PCI-E 4.0 x16, and it can do RAID. - Epyc comes with 128x PCI-E 4.0 lanes, which is a theoretical max of 256GB/s of aggregate PCI-E bandwidth available for an SSD setup. - Which is simply an impossible number for a console to cost effectively have for next-gen.

PCI-E 5.0 will likely be available in 2022, Intel will support it with LGA 4677 sockets... And that could theoretically take it to 512GB/s or half a Terabyte per second.
PCI-E 6.0 is being ratified right now with system implementations after that, which will likely double things again.

I thought it was that it would have the fastest SSD, compared to a PC equivalent in price to the PS5. So how fast is the SSD in a $500 PC generally? The PS5 will be faster than that, but won't make it the fastest SSD on the market by late 2020. It may however be faster than anticipated, due to it's customization and integration into the console.

Nope. He didn't say compared to equivalent PC. He just said available to PC. Because you could either make a barebone PC with only the SSD being good, or other components being good and throwing a very old HDD on it, both could cost 500 so it would be pointless comparison.

Lafiel said:
Pemalite said:

Yes they are certainly being disingenuous.
In saying that, they are trying to amp-up/promote their console, so there is always dubious claims everytime we enter a new console generation... The frustrating part is that everyone tends to take it as gospel and thus believe it.

PCI-E 4.0 NVMe drives will theoretically top out at around 8GB/s of sequential reads, which is likely what the Playstation 5 will have, taking advantage of AMD's latest technology. - That is stupidly fast whichever way you cut the cake considering most SSD setups today top out at around 4GB/s thanks to PCI-E 3.0 bandwidth limitations.

But the PC can do PCI-E 4.0 x16, and it can do RAID. - Epyc comes with 128x PCI-E 4.0 lanes, which is a theoretical max of 256GB/s of aggregate PCI-E bandwidth available for an SSD setup. - Which is simply an impossible number for a console to cost effectively have for next-gen.

PCI-E 5.0 will likely be available in 2022, Intel will support it with LGA 4677 sockets... And that could theoretically take it to 512GB/s or half a Terabyte per second.
PCI-E 6.0 is being ratified right now with system implementations after that, which will likely double things again.

aren't you being a bit disingenuous yourself here?

Unless I missed a more recent comment, Cerny said it was better than anything in current PCs when PCI-E 4.0 wasn't released. And an Epyc CPU is not something for "PCs" (_personal_ computers), it's server hardware. The kind of raids you describe are extremely unlikely to be used for personal/private use.

I would like to know what would be the reasonable limit of what was available to PC at the time. Because I can sulk up Mark being hyperbolic or a little disingenuous/not transparent, but a flat ou lie on the like of saying they will have a SSD faster than what is available to PC but meaning "faster than HDD" doesn't make much sense. We can throw all hell to Ken Kutaragi on PS3, but he wasn't lying when he touted Cell capabilities versus other chips, it just didn't matter as much as the numbers suggested.



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No. Just make it the usual boring black box.



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duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

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EricHiggin said:

Ok, so we're both guessing at something, since neither of us know for sure, and neither of us are suggesting anything that would be highly unlikely or out of the question, and yet $500 for the PS5 is ridiculous enough for you to brush it off like it means nothing, yet PS basing the SSD off of existing standards and tech should be taken more seriously? It's not like we don't know what consoles used to cost, presently cost, or what they could cost, based on many factors. You're right that PS hasn't said anything about price, other than Cerny saying, "it'll be appealing to gamers in light of it's advanced feature set", but they also haven't said anything about the SSD, other than it uses PCIe 4.0 and will load really fast.

Your defense of Sony is admirable, but misplaced... And no I am not "Guessing at something".

Sony made the blanket statement that the PS5 "has a raw bandwidth higher than any SSD available for PCs." - And clearly I have proven that statement to be absolutely false.
https://www.wired.com/story/exclusive-sony-next-gen-console/

There was no mention of PC's price, there was no mention of the Playstation 5's price, thus price doesn't enter into the argument, it's that simple. - I take issue with Sony's statement, not the pricing of it's hardware or the company itself.

To then have someone like yourself to leverage "price" to shift the goal post (Which is a logical fallacy) is just continuing the disingenuous narrative already put in play.

Yes the SSD in the Playstation 5 will be "really fast". - But it can't beat the PC, it can beat some PC's however.

EricHiggin said:

While using existing tech with minor customizations is totally possible based on PS4's semi-custom tech, the PS4 was also coming off of a terrible gen for PS themselves, and going into a world of 'consoles are dead'. PS5 is coming off PS4 like PS3 came off PS2, and we all know what that led to. Now while I by no means think we're likely getting anything as unique or expensive as the PS3 was, I think expecting PS5 to simply be an upgraded Pro is setting the bar to low. I would guess we're going to see less minor semi custom tech, and more significant semi custom tech.

How much do you think the PS5 will be, based on whatever factors you would use at this time to make a reasonable guess?

The Playstation 4's "Semi custom" technology was still derived from PC based technology.

I never stated the Playstation 5 is just an upgraded Pro, thus the bar isn't being set low.

As for price, I don't know... And personally I don't really care, I will buy whatever console offers the most compelling overall solution.

Lafiel said:

aren't you being a bit disingenuous yourself here?

Unless I missed a more recent comment, Cerny said it was better than anything in current PCs when PCI-E 4.0 wasn't released. And an Epyc CPU is not something for "PCs" (_personal_ computers), it's server hardware. The kind of raids you describe are extremely unlikely to be used for personal/private use.

You can have PCI-E 3.0 SSD setups that will beat the Playstation 5's or PCI-E 4.0 SSD setups, it depends how many PCI-E lanes you want to throw at the problem.

Sony made a claim, that the Playstation 5's SSD setup is faster than the PC, they didn't specify what PC in particular.



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