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Forums - Sales Discussion - September NPD 2019 thread

haxxiy said:

I'm just laughing @ people thinking more than a few nerds in the internet care for bragging about monthy US hardware sales.

No one is paying NPD to "hide" anything. They're just following the golden rule that is, if you're good at something, don't do it for free. Money rules.

You really believe big companies DO NOT ever pressure other smaller companies to do their bidding? Really? So naive of you. You must think the world is made of candy and unicorns.



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abronn627 said:
Deeds said:

Heh, at the end of the day it doesn't matter if it is "Teh Conspiracy!!1!1" or not. Numbers being hidden (when it is openly disclosed in other industries) benefits no one, not even the people trying to hide the data. What really matters is what you like or not, and I think Sony is garbage so meh.

You looking too far at the reasons why numbers are not openly shared. If there’s one thing businesses have realized in the last decade is that data are worth a lot of money. Sales numbers being hidden by NPD or Media Create is nothing unexpected today since they believe they can turn a profit by selling their services. There’s nothing more than that.

Hiding sales numbers is exclusive to the gaming industry. Why? EDIT. The Automobile industry is far bigger than the gaming industry and yet sales numbers of cars are open to the public. Gaming is such a joke.



Deeds said:

People quickly forgot that NPD started hiding data late into the Wii/PS3/360 era. During the PS2/GCN/Xbox era all the data was wide open. Coincidence? And again, sales data can be used for marketing purposes. For example, "Product X is the best selling thing, get it while its hot!!!!". You cant do that when your product is selling like shit, but you can shut people up and create narratives that are deceptive, like "the Playsation Family of sales". Also notice that they CANT shut up companies that are too strong like Kadokawa Dwango (who owns Famitsu) or Amazon (with their bestseller list).

I want to add to this because one thing the NPD did change during that generation. In Gen 7, Software sales were reported individually by system. So Madden on the 360 and Madden on the PS3 would be on the charts and not included with each other. However, during that time Nintendo was dominating the charts and most of the top 10 was Nintendo. After a few years of Wii Fit and Wii Sports knocking out AAA, they changed it so that it combines sales across consoles which bumps down Nintendo's exclusive games.

So this wouldn't be the first time the NPD has done funny business with their data. Is NPD trying to stomp out leaks because of Nintendo? Who knows, but it's interesting the leaks were stomped out after Nintendo had been dominating the hardware numbers.



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VideoGameAccountant said:
Deeds said:

People quickly forgot that NPD started hiding data late into the Wii/PS3/360 era. During the PS2/GCN/Xbox era all the data was wide open. Coincidence? And again, sales data can be used for marketing purposes. For example, "Product X is the best selling thing, get it while its hot!!!!". You cant do that when your product is selling like shit, but you can shut people up and create narratives that are deceptive, like "the Playsation Family of sales". Also notice that they CANT shut up companies that are too strong like Kadokawa Dwango (who owns Famitsu) or Amazon (with their bestseller list).

I want to add to this because one thing the NPD did change during that generation. In Gen 7, Software sales were reported individually by system. So Madden on the 360 and Madden on the PS3 would be on the charts and not included with each other. However, during that time Nintendo was dominating the charts and most of the top 10 was Nintendo. After a few years of Wii Fit and Wii Sports knocking out AAA, they changed it so that it combines sales across consoles which bumps down Nintendo's exclusive games.

So this wouldn't be the first time the NPD has done funny business with their data. Is NPD trying to stomp out leaks because of Nintendo? Who knows, but it's interesting the leaks were stomped out after Nintendo had been dominating the hardware numbers.

Yup. NPD is pretty shady, so if they want to hide their data totally, fuck them. I wouldn't be surprised if their "data" is actually inaccurate, especially of late. Also notice that Nintendo doesn't deal with them. NPD has been asking Nintendo to share their digital sales with them and Nintendo is like "FUCK YOU." Nintendo obviously sees them as untrustworthy.



LudicrousSpeed said:
JRPGfan said:

No one talking about Gears (xbox + pc steam) is at #7 on the list?

it launched early into the month, so its basically a full month and it couldnt get into the top3 spots.
Gears used to be a system seller..... it was a reason to get a xbox, it sold like mad.

Sales must be down by huge margins compaired to older Gears games.

Interesting negative take.

How did those older Gears titles do on debut? What was the retail/Gamepass split like?

NPD doesnt show how many played it via 1$ for a year, on gamepass.
However my thinking is, more than Xbox is probably comfortable with..... didnt buy the new Gears game, but played it via gamepass.

Xbox probably made huge losses on Gears (spending on production > sales + gamepass revenue generated).

Also apparently 5 weeks later on, its almost out of the top20 most played on xbox.
This is unusual for a Gears of War game, they usually have good legs, and staying power.... this one seems to have fizzled out quicker.



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Deeds said:
Replicant said:

Bold: Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't we have monthly leaks until 2015 where NPD's ninjas started to hunt down leakers such as Aquamarine? In 2015, Sony dominated the gaming world and it seems like such a weird time for them to begin requiring NPD to stop leakers.

I guess you are somewhat new to this? I remember on neogaf people complaining about NPD restricting data (slowly but surely) long before the PS4 came out.

We still got leaks on a regular monthly basis though. First time I remember reading about NPD trying to stop leakers was in 2015 where Sony had zero reason to stop US numbers from leaking.

Mat Piscatella has started to communicate more with users through twitter revealing bits and pieces of information. It mostly come off as NPD promoting their services due to them discovering that they could charge money for something they used to reveal for free.

However, they do reveal the month's winner (which has been Nintendo a lot lately) and they don't hold back on praising impressive numbers and records (which has been about Nintendo a lot lately), so I'm not quite sold on the theory that NPD is paid to downplay Nintendo. If they are, Mat is doing a pretty bad job on twitter none the less.



Deeds said:

Heh, at the end of the day it doesn't matter if it is "Teh Conspiracy!!1!1" or not. Numbers being hidden (when it is openly disclosed in other industries) benefits no one, not even the people trying to hide the data. What really matters is what you like or not, and I think Sony is garbage so meh.

Well, ok. I guess that explains a few things.



JRPGfan said:
LudicrousSpeed said:

Interesting negative take.

How did those older Gears titles do on debut? What was the retail/Gamepass split like?

NPD doesnt show how many played it via 1$ for a year, on gamepass.
However my thinking is, more than Xbox is probably comfortable with..... didnt buy the new Gears game, but played it via gamepass.

Xbox probably made huge losses on Gears (spending on production > sales + gamepass revenue generated).

Also apparently 5 weeks later on, its almost out of the top20 most played on xbox.
This is unusual for a Gears of War game, they usually have good legs, and staying power.... this one seems to have fizzled out quicker.

I stopped reading at $1/year GamePass. You’re either wildly ignorant about GamePass or exaggerating greatly, either way not worth a serious reply.



LudicrousSpeed said:
JRPGfan said:

NPD doesnt show how many played it via 1$ for a year, on gamepass.
However my thinking is, more than Xbox is probably comfortable with..... didnt buy the new Gears game, but played it via gamepass.

Xbox probably made huge losses on Gears (spending on production > sales + gamepass revenue generated).

Also apparently 5 weeks later on, its almost out of the top20 most played on xbox.
This is unusual for a Gears of War game, they usually have good legs, and staying power.... this one seems to have fizzled out quicker.

I stopped reading at $1/year GamePass. You’re either wildly ignorant about GamePass or exaggerating greatly, either way not worth a serious reply.

So, he mixed up month for year. Big deal. Doesn't change the fact that the rest of his reply was true. Nice way to try and ignore it, though.



I saw 49 new replies and thought we got hardware numbers but its just consipitacy theories.