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Gaming companies are a perfect example of the failure of unregulated capitalism.

Forums - Politics Discussion - Gaming companies are a perfect example of the failure of unregulated capitalism.

thismeintiel said:

We already have a body governing them, us gamers. Whenever someone wants to pull a bullshit move, like MS's DRM fiasco, we rise up with our voices and, more importantly, our wallets.

Yeah, that's a great premise, but it's clearly not working! AAA Publishers keep pushing for more shitty monetization, and while a game or another might suffer backlash, the majority won't.

thismeintiel said:

You complain about tax evasion, but that is 100% on the government and its crony capitalism, which yes, the Left loves to partake in, too. The government makes and enforces the taxes. They have made taxes so complicated and filled with loopholes for their buddies that we get things where companies like GE had to pay little to no taxes.

Yeah, I'm sure they're not paying them because they're too complicated, and not because they're shitty human beings.

Asking for less taxes because corporations don't pay them is like asking for worse teachers because there are people who cheat on tests. You have to be stricter to the ones doing it wrong, not the opposite.

thismeintiel said:

Of course, the real solution would be a fair or flat tax, with no loopholes, but I'm sure you are against that.

Yeah, I'm obviously against punishing the workforce for corporations being assholes.

thismeintiel said:

The political point is just odd. It seems you want them to push your politics. But, what if they decided to push politics you disagree with? Would you be fine with that? Either way, them being regulated wouldn't fix that. Many devs just want to tell a good story, with maybe hints of politics, not piss off their potential customers, whether left or right. Unless you think it's the government's job to force business to promote their political ideologies. There's a certain Na sty anti- zi on group that believed that, as well, so I hope that's not what you are implying.

I'm not asking for developers to be forced to push politics into their games. I love my Marios, my Goose Games and etc. What I'm asking for is that publishers be honest with the content they're offering.

I disagree with The Division 2's politics, and that's an example I used where I asked for them to be more honest about being political.

My point here is not that I want government to enforce politics onto games. I'm trying to show how, under this capitalist system, art is being held back because corporations don't want to piss anyone off.



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BraLoD said:
Gaming companies are like any other kind of company.

Yeah, I know that. That's the point. I'm using gaming companies to exemplify how unregulated capitalism works, because it's easier to understand when they're so openly shitty.



G O O D B O I

Nobody is forced to buy microtransactions. People are just dump and buy anyways. The regulation of capitalism just resulted in the biggest failure of mankind: Central banks, that print money to save zombie companies like general motors, which should be dead along with dozens of companies who died in 2008. And they were saved at the cost of savers and taxpayers.

Last edited by CuCabeludo - on 05 October 2019

thismeintiel said:

We already have a body governing them, us gamers. Whenever someone wants to pull a bullshit move, like MS's DRM fiasco, we rise up with our voices and, more importantly, our wallets.

To be fair, gamers far too often DON'T vote with their wallets, or at least not nearly enough to make a difference. Look at all the bullshit Activi$ion pulls year in and year out with CoD, last year with BO4 being a prime example. They locked all DLC behind a season pass that you could initially only get with a $100 SE with day 1 content and less content than previous passes, threw in an awful tiered battle pass system and rendered all physical editions of the game obsolete with a 50 GB day 1 patch and still managed to sell over 14m copies, and what did they do? They started selling reticles, throttling XP and snuck in loot boxes post-launch. All because people LET them get away with their bullshit.

And now, we have Acti locking PC and XB1 players out of an entire game mode for an entire year (basically the game's whole life span) and throwing in P2W loot boxes containing weapons. You could argue people NOT voting with their wallets caused Acti to get too far ahead of themselves. Activi$ion does this shit because they know Bobby Kotick could literally be caught shooting a guy on tape and they'd still sell tens of millions of copies. And the sad part is, people know what they have to do to get them to stop, yet they refuse to do it.

BFV even after all its controversy and their then-EVP telling people not to buy the game still managed to sell over 7m copies.

Mass Effect: Andromeda, or should I say, Mess Effect: Andromeda still sold 2.5m copies even after hiring a racist shitbird to work on the game and a beta full of glitches.

NBA 2K18 has the worst P2W progression/MTXs system I've ever seen, yet it still sold over 10m copies.

I can list more, but I believe my point is clear.



This also that kind of system that make it so that it is difficult knowadays to get full game experiences with most AAA without having you to shelve off a grand on your game because some of these compagnies have gradually and openly become shittier with the way they wanna deal with their custommers.
For freaking sake, why are games like FIFA 20 or Breakpoint (for recent examples) so broken at launch and yet still rack in the money for an obviously shallow experience that never intended to benefit the players in the slighest ....

And don't worry, the governing body of the VG industry , the ESA, will do jack shit to regulate the situation as we know since they're going hands-in-hands with these awful pratices.



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haxxiy said:
I wonder how much worse they can get in an environment where streaming and digital licensing are the main gaming medium.

It can get a lot worse, and we don't need hypotheticals to prove this, because the future is now. Digital downloads and streaming already exist, and we've already seen what can come of it.

A physical, offline game is a complete product unto itself. And under current U.S. law, any physical console game is the property of the purchaser (same for physical music albums, books, and home video). Those cartridges and discs sitting on my shelves in my living room are my property, and I can sell, lend, gift, or trade them at my own discretion. Meanwhile, digital games are regarded as "licensed, not sold," and are still the property of the publisher and/or platform holder, and you can't do anything with those copies without the express consent of the publisher. But with a digital copy of a game otherwise not dependent on the internet you at least have a local copy saved if you've already downloaded it.

However, even then your local copies may not always be safe. There was at least one game where all local copies everybody had saved were remotely deleted from everyone's Steam libraries by Valve. Similarly, about a decade ago Kindle owners who had bought copies of 1984 and Animal Farm from a vendor that turned out to not be an authorized publisher had their copies remotely deleted from their devices. And there have been several stories of people having entire libraries of digital content nuked by the platform holder because of what were ostensibly TOS violations. These incidents show that it is possible for publishers and distributors to remove your ability to use even local copies, and it's something only possible with digital. You'll never see a book publisher knock on your door and demand you hand over a print copy of a book that turned out to be an unauthorized copy you bought from a flea market, or a brick-and-mortar store confiscating everything you ever bought from them because you broke one of their in-house rules.

But, at least in principle and (for now) in normal practice, you do have a local copy available when you download a title. That's not the case with streaming, which takes all the worst aspects of always-online games and applies them to literally every title. The publisher will literally control every aspect of every game from publication onward. You're no longer buying a product. You're paying for a service. And anyone can be prevented from accessing a service, in part or in whole, for any reason or no reason at all. You own nothing. You control nothing. You are completely at the mercy of the publisher.

Also, countless games have been de-listed from digital storefronts, usually because of some rights issue, with many of them unlikely to ever be available for purchase again. Now imagine if the only way to consume games was through streaming. With a lot of games, namely racing games and anything that had a lot of limited-time music licenses, you better enjoy them while they last, because they'll be pulled at some point, with no way to play them because having a local copy wasn't an option. More broadly, an untold amount of digital content is already lost forever. How many old websites or YouTube videos you used to like are now gone forever with no existing backup copies? While physical copies can be subject to physical destruction, a title only available physically won't cease to exist until all copies are destroyed. With digital media, all it can take is a flip of the switch for something to be eradicated from existence for all time.

If a digital-only future is inevitable, it will by a dystopia of sorts unless some major overhauls are made to current IP law.

DonFerrari said:

I wouldn't even need to read what you write to say failures come from government "regulating" capitalism.

After reading your OP I can confirm I totally disagree of your premisses, at most I can agree that corporations only look at profit and that is exactly what they have to look at.

Nearly every regulation we have today exists because somebody abused their freedom when those regulations didn't exist. Companies were essentially unregulated for much of America's history, and what was the result? We had robber barons paying their employees wages that could barely count as "subsistence," subjecting them to obscenely long hours in unsafe conditions, and often having them live in company towns where they were paid in scrip valid only at the company store and effectively held in debt slavery, and then hiring mercenaries to violently suppress the workers who dared to have the audacity to strike for better wages and conditions. And that's just what they did in America (ever wonder where the phrase "banana republic" comes from?) Eventually it was decided that enough was enough, that the private sector had gone too far, and, thanks largely to the work of the Progressive movement, something was actually done about this.

In America's history we had rivers vastly more polluted than we do today, one even catching fire because of the unchecked pollution (if you want to be pedantic, the river itself didn't catch fire, but rather the crap being dumped into it did, but anybody who actually saw it probably thought "THE FUCKING RIVER IS ON FIRE!", technicalities be damned). We had cities like Los Angeles blanketed under nearly-opaque blankets of smog because of sulfate aerosol emissions from burning fossil fuels, much like what some Chinese cities have suffered from recently. We had lead compounds in gasoline being breathed in by everyone across the nation, leading to increased lead levels in everyone's bodies. We had ozone-depleting chemicals being poured into the atmosphere. And, perhaps most notably, we had the tobacco industry selling highly addictive products that were ultimately lethal to many of their users. These and other environmental and public health concerns led to things like the Clean Air Act, the Clean Water Act, the formation of the EPA, and ratification of the Montreal Protocol, despite massive denial campaigns being launched by the affected companies.

The Progressive movement of the late 19th century and its modern descendants didn't come about because a bunch of angry Marxists were peeved that people were making money by selling goods and services in an open market. Rather, it and the reforms it successfully pushed for came about because the free market failed to prevent abuses against people or self-correct after producing obvious negative externalities. They weren't out to nationalize the means of production and create a workers' paradise. They simply wanted to reign in the excesses and abuses committed by corporations. Countless companies have shown time and time again that the private sector really, really does not like to self-regulate, especially when it comes to negative externalities. They want to internalize their profits and externalize their costs. Given the opportunity, many of them will choose to lie, cheat, take shortcuts, abuse people, and despoil the environment just to make a buck. We know this because history is rife with well-established examples of private-sector fuckery, which as mentioned included outright murder.

Libertarians and conservatives like to present a false dichotomy of unregulated "laissez faire" capitalism and totalitarian communism, that any sort of restriction on the use of private property by its owner is a heinous, tyrannical, and unforgivable transgression, but that's bullshit. I argue that regulations are not only not inimical to a market economy, but are necessary for it in a civil society. The market is a part of society, and a free market, like a free society, still needs rules of some kind to function. For example, I can't throw my garbage into my neighbor's yard without legal consequences, and neither should a company be able to fill the land, sea, and air with toxic chemicals without legal consequences. A lawless state is incompatible with civilization, and that applies to the market as well. The Gilded Age of the Robber Baron should never and hopefully will never come back.

CuCabeludo said:

Nobody is forced to buy microtransactions. People are just dump and buy anyways. The regulation of capitalism just resulted in the biggest failure of mankind: Central banks, that print money to save zombie companies like general motors, which should be dead along with dozens of companies who died in 2008. And they were saved at the cost of savers and taxpayers.

To add to what I said above, the idea that regulation of capitalism led to central banking is a completely ahistorical idea. Central banks existed long before the modern concept of capitalism did. The Bank of England was founded in 1694, and entities similar to central banks existed even before it. Meanwhile, Adam Smith didn't publish The Wealth of Nations until 1776. Also, the U.S. has had central banks at various points before the Federal Reserve, long before the late 19th-century Progressive Era push to start regulating large corporations.

Also, spare us that "microtransactions are optional" line. I've heard it before from all over the internet. It's always been a bogus argument. People need to stop making excuses for corporations and their bullshit.

Last edited by Shadow1980 - on 05 October 2019

The only thing regulations did was moving the entire manufacturing industries, which was the strenght of the US economy in the 1950s-1980s, from america to China. And tariffs won't make the industry come back, only deregulation and cuts in government spending would.

If you don't like mts, do like me and don't buy them. I play OW, Apex, PUBG among others and never bought a single shit via mt. The only entity that can force you to do anything via violence is the government, without giving a shit whether you want it or not. Private companies can't force you to buy anything.

Last edited by CuCabeludo - on 05 October 2019

A little extreme here, but the underlying lesson remains the same.



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CuCabeludo said:

The only thing regulations did was moving the entire manufacturing industries, which was the strenght of the US economy in the 1950s-1980s, from america to China. And tariffs won't make the industry come back, only deregulation and cuts in government spending would.

If you don't like mts, do like me and don't buy them. I play OW, Apex, PUBG among others and never bought a single shit via mt. The only entity that can force you to do anything via violence is the government, without giving a shit whether you want it or not. Private companies can't force you to buy anything.

Oh plz, let's not use the individualistic rethoric of "why should this concern me if I have nothing to do with the problem", like congrats you don't play into their vicious hands, but visibly most people who play these games feels enticed to actually spends their cash into MTX/Lootboxes economies because these corporation actually understand psychological/sociological behavior with a large portion of the population hence why they're actively pushing the envelop of these dumb pratices to the point some games or "live-services" aren't good anymore because they frickled with the progression to make you pay more or even worse, broken bug fest releases.

The problem englobes the whole community and those who play games in general(worse for those who've got addictive personalities), you can't dismiss legitimate issues with a simple wave of your hand, face it.



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Again. It is a non issue. Nobody put a gun in their heads and forced them to buy skins in a game. They do it because they want. How people spend their own money is not my concern.

What's next? Let's ban soda and alcohol because there are people spending too much money and getting sick by drinking too much soda and getting diabetic and too much alcohol.

Last edited by CuCabeludo - on 05 October 2019