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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - What is up with Game Freak?

Lonely_Dolphin said:

This all makes sense, but in the end Nintendo/Pokemon company could delay everything else as well, they could hire more people, so it's their own fault. Yeah it would cost them money but we know they can afford it and would still make profit in the end, yet they'd rather be lazy n greedy than maintain artistic integrity and make good games.

That'd be too expensive, and would require too much work. As they said, delaying Pokemon games, means that the other parts of the generation like merchandise and TV shows get negatively impacted as well. Pokemon isn't like other Nintendo franchises, Game Freak can't just delay a game to ensure better quality like Nintendo can with Animal Crossing. The entire development and release window is set in stone based on what The Pokemon Company's plans for that year are.

That's not to obsolve Game Freak of fault here, they need to get better staff and workflow, but TPC's scheduling is a major factor in why Sword and Shield isn't the kind of game it should be.



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TheMisterManGuy said:
Lonely_Dolphin said:

This all makes sense, but in the end Nintendo/Pokemon company could delay everything else as well, they could hire more people, so it's their own fault. Yeah it would cost them money but we know they can afford it and would still make profit in the end, yet they'd rather be lazy n greedy than maintain artistic integrity and make good games.

That'd be too expensive, and would require too much work. As they said, delaying Pokemon games, means that the other parts of the generation like merchandise and TV shows get negatively impacted as well. Pokemon isn't like other Nintendo franchises, Game Freak can't just delay a game to ensure better quality like Nintendo can with Animal Crossing. The entire development and release window is set in stone based on what The Pokemon Company's plans for that year are.

That's not to obsolve Game Freak of fault here, they need to get better staff and workflow, but TPC's scheduling is a major factor in why Sword and Shield isn't the kind of game it should be.

Repeating the same information isn't going to change my mind. I don't know how you can think they can't afford to delay everything when they make millions off of bare minimum effort. There's no extra work required for delaying merchandising and such, and if you're saying making a good game is too much work, then just lol.

They can delay the game, that's a fact. The only reason they wont is greed.



Lonely_Dolphin said:
TheMisterManGuy said:

That'd be too expensive, and would require too much work. As they said, delaying Pokemon games, means that the other parts of the generation like merchandise and TV shows get negatively impacted as well. Pokemon isn't like other Nintendo franchises, Game Freak can't just delay a game to ensure better quality like Nintendo can with Animal Crossing. The entire development and release window is set in stone based on what The Pokemon Company's plans for that year are.

That's not to obsolve Game Freak of fault here, they need to get better staff and workflow, but TPC's scheduling is a major factor in why Sword and Shield isn't the kind of game it should be.

Repeating the same information isn't going to change my mind. I don't know how you can think they can't afford to delay everything when they make millions off of bare minimum effort. There's no extra work required for delaying merchandising and such, and if you're saying making a good game is too much work, then just lol.

They can delay the game, that's a fact. The only reason they wont is greed.

Game Freak and Nintendo can't do anything unless The Pokemon Company approves. TPC heavily depends on all aspects of the franchise, and making sure they work together is important. Yes, greed plays a part, but you underestimate how much work it takes to delay things like the Trading Card game, or the accompanying anime if the game gets delayed. It's a lot more nuanced than the "Evil greedy" corporation.



TheMisterManGuy said:
Lonely_Dolphin said:

Repeating the same information isn't going to change my mind. I don't know how you can think they can't afford to delay everything when they make millions off of bare minimum effort. There's no extra work required for delaying merchandising and such, and if you're saying making a good game is too much work, then just lol.

They can delay the game, that's a fact. The only reason they wont is greed.

Game Freak and Nintendo can't do anything unless The Pokemon Company approves. TPC heavily depends on all aspects of the franchise, and making sure they work together is important. Yes, greed plays a part, but you underestimate how much work it takes to delay things like the Trading Card game, or the accompanying anime if the game gets delayed. It's a lot more nuanced than the "Evil greedy" corporation.

The thing is, while I understand this situation is in a considerable part out of their hands, that doesn't mean they are going to get my sympathies. They still took on an off features from games for years, they still divided their "limited" resources into My Little Town, and they still refused to grow as a studio even when the pressure kept increasing. This situation, while maybe unavoidable, could have definitively been handled much better.

Last edited by Darwinianevolution - on 29 September 2019

You know it deserves the GOTY.

Come join The 2018 Obscure Game Monthly Review Thread.

TheMisterManGuy said:
Lonely_Dolphin said:

Repeating the same information isn't going to change my mind. I don't know how you can think they can't afford to delay everything when they make millions off of bare minimum effort. There's no extra work required for delaying merchandising and such, and if you're saying making a good game is too much work, then just lol.

They can delay the game, that's a fact. The only reason they wont is greed.

Game Freak and Nintendo can't do anything unless The Pokemon Company approves. TPC heavily depends on all aspects of the franchise, and making sure they work together is important. Yes, greed plays a part, but you underestimate how much work it takes to delay things like the Trading Card game, or the accompanying anime if the game gets delayed. It's a lot more nuanced than the "Evil greedy" corporation.

I should specify when I say they I'm referring to whoever is making the top level decisions, Gamefreak, Nintendo, TPC, whomever.

I will say you overestimate how much work it takes, but I'll back up my claim by saying the amount of work it takes will be no different than if they weren't delayed because why would it be? They're still gonna make the same number of episodes and card designs, they'll just be released later is all. Greed is not "a" part rather than "the" part. You can try to frame it as "work", but what does work mean in this context? Paying someone to do something. They don't want to do more work cause that means spending more money, hence greed.



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Lonely_Dolphin said:

Repeating the same information isn't going to change my mind. I don't know how you can think they can't afford to delay everything when they make millions off of bare minimum effort. There's no extra work required for delaying merchandising and such, and if you're saying making a good game is too much work, then just lol.

They can delay the game, that's a fact. The only reason they wont is greed.

I don't think you truly understand, at all, just how much goes into managing such a massive multimedia juggernaut that is so tied together and the extremely negative repercussions delaying the entire process has on their bottom line. When you're delaying everything... you're delaying EVERYTHING! And what consequences does that bring? Massive retailer fees that need to be paid in order to hold stock of video games and merchandise, recalling of said stock to adjust to new quarter shipments, halting marketing campaigns, the anime gets put on hiatus because they can't air new episodes until it releases so that money-train comes to a screeching halt, missing ALL of your deadlines, greatly missing profit and sales goals and losing A LOT of money, sorely pissing off investors in the process, along with upper management for the severe mismanagement of the brand, and fans all at once.  It's a disaster on all counts and all aspects. That's why it's not that simple as delaying Animal Crossing: New Horizons, because it's only the game they have to worry about and it's not going to have any significant impact on Nintendo's bottom line because the Switch is selling hardware and software at high rates already and they can more than afford to wait. It's nowhere near as costly, complicated, and potentially disastrous to delay one game as it is to delay the entire thing. That's not how business of that magnitude works. That's a one way ticket to bankruptcy. 

That's why I say the option which should be taken is to expand Game Freak and hire much more developers and provide them with exponentially more resources to match the new hardware they have to develop for. Breath of the Wild had a development team of over 300 people, which consisted of people from both Nintendo EPD and Monolith Soft, and that game also got delayed, twice. From 2015, to 2016, to finally, March 2017. Game Freak's number of employees as of 2018 stands at 143 people. That is simply not going to cut it. When you talk about delaying the game, I don't think you understand just how much extra time they would need. This isn't something as simple as just pushing the release from November to March for extra tune up, polish, and breathing room for the devs. The type of delay for a game of that scale and magnitude, with half the staff of Breath of the Wild, that many people hope for would take would take YEARS. That would have already been bad for a video game by itself, but for a franchise like Pokemon, when it has all of these other divisions, factors, and forms of media that are tied with the games and release alongside them. You're talking about 10s, maybe 100s, of millions of dollars right down the drain. That would be an absolute and total financial and PR disaster. That's why delaying the games is absolutely not an option, hence the only option is to expand and grow exponentially. Something that the Pokemon Company has yet to understand and is too stubborn to do, because, like I said, they think they can just get by like they always have and they're just putting off all the problems that will just keep growing and growing.

Last edited by PAOerfulone - on 29 September 2019

PAOerfulone said:
Lonely_Dolphin said:

Repeating the same information isn't going to change my mind. I don't know how you can think they can't afford to delay everything when they make millions off of bare minimum effort. There's no extra work required for delaying merchandising and such, and if you're saying making a good game is too much work, then just lol.

They can delay the game, that's a fact. The only reason they wont is greed.

I don't think you truly understand, at all, just how much goes into managing such a massive multimedia juggernaut that is so tied together and the extremely negative repercussions delaying the entire process has on their bottom line. When you're delaying everything... you're delaying EVERYTHING! And what consequences does that bring? Massive retailer fees that need to be paid in order to hold stock of video games and merchandise, recalling of said stock to adjust to new quarter shipments, halting marketing campaigns, the anime gets put on hiatus because they can't air new episodes until it releases so that money-train comes to a screeching halt, missing ALL of your deadlines, greatly missing profit and sales goals and losing A LOT of money, sorely pissing off investors in the process, along with upper management for the severe mismanagement of the brand, and fans all at once.  It's a disaster on all counts and all aspects. That's why it's not that simple as delaying Animal Crossing: New Horizons, because it's only the game they have to worry about and it's not going to have any significant impact on Nintendo's bottom line because the Switch is selling hardware and software at high rates already and they can more than afford to wait. It's nowhere near as costly, complicated, and potentially disastrous to delay one game as it is to delay the entire thing. That's not how business of that magnitude works. That's a one way ticket to bankruptcy. 

That's why I say the option which should be taken is to expand Game Freak and hire much more developers and provide them with exponentially more resources to match the new hardware they have to develop for. Breath of the Wild had a development team of over 300 people, which consisted of people from both Nintendo EPD and Monolith Soft, and that game also got delayed, twice. From 2015, to 2016, to finally, March 2017. Game Freak's number of employees as of 2018 stands at 143 people. That is simply not going to cut it. When you talk about delaying the game, I don't think you understand just how much extra time they would need. This isn't something as simple as just pushing the release from November to March for extra tune up, polish, and breathing room for the devs. The type of delay for a game of that scale and magnitude, with half the staff of Breath of the Wild, that many people hope for would take would take YEARS. That would have already been bad for a video game by itself, but for a franchise like Pokemon, when it has all of these other divisions, factors, and forms of media that are tied with the games and release alongside them. You're talking about 10s, maybe 100s, of millions of dollars right down the drain. That would be an absolute and total financial and PR disaster. That's why delaying the games is absolutely not an option, hence the only option is to expand and grow exponentially. Something that the Pokemon Company has yet to understand and is too stubborn to do, because, like I said, they think they can just get by like they always have and they're just putting off all the problems that will just keep growing and growing.

The games could potentially have more people involved in development. Freelancers are a thing. Guess we will have to see how many during the credits. Creatures, Inc. may likely have helped with Pokemon modeling or what not (they have done modeling for Pokemon Stadium 1 and 2, Ranger, Colosseum, Battle Revolution, X and Y, Go, Pokken, etc.). I don't think the 143 count is the clear number that work on the Pokemon game(s).

Regardless, developing new projects (AA-AAA) are still huge endeavors. Whether you are using old assets or creating new ones, time and resources are spent regardless. Unfortunately, mainline Pokemon games appear to have tighter deadlines due to the other aspects of the franchise are hinged to the games releasing in a timely manner. Even the upcoming new anime series will need to be timely with the games in a sense as there are going to be new Pokemon to discover and a new region, Galar, (along with all the past regions) to explore. Merch, which earns the majority of the franchise's overall gross, is also dependent on the games releasing.



Darwinianevolution said:

The thing is, while I understand this situation is in a considerable part out of their hands, that doesn't mean they are going to get my sympathies. They still took on an off features from games for years, they still divided their "limited" resources into My Little Town, and they still refused to grow as a studio even when the pressure kept increasing. This situation, while maybe unavoidable, could have definitively been handled much better.

True, Game Freak isn't blameless. I've called out their incompetence already. But The Pokemon Company and Pokemon's inherent nature as a franchise don't help either.



PAOerfulone said:
Lonely_Dolphin said:

Repeating the same information isn't going to change my mind. I don't know how you can think they can't afford to delay everything when they make millions off of bare minimum effort. There's no extra work required for delaying merchandising and such, and if you're saying making a good game is too much work, then just lol.

They can delay the game, that's a fact. The only reason they wont is greed.

I don't think you truly understand, at all, just how much goes into managing such a massive multimedia juggernaut that is so tied together and the extremely negative repercussions delaying the entire process has on their bottom line. When you're delaying everything... you're delaying EVERYTHING! And what consequences does that bring? Massive retailer fees that need to be paid in order to hold stock of video games and merchandise, recalling of said stock to adjust to new quarter shipments, halting marketing campaigns, the anime gets put on hiatus because they can't air new episodes until it releases so that money-train comes to a screeching halt, missing ALL of your deadlines, greatly missing profit and sales goals and losing A LOT of money, sorely pissing off investors in the process, along with upper management for the severe mismanagement of the brand, and fans all at once.  It's a disaster on all counts and all aspects. That's why it's not that simple as delaying Animal Crossing: New Horizons, because it's only the game they have to worry about and it's not going to have any significant impact on Nintendo's bottom line because the Switch is selling hardware and software at high rates already and they can more than afford to wait. It's nowhere near as costly, complicated, and potentially disastrous to delay one game as it is to delay the entire thing. That's not how business of that magnitude works. That's a one way ticket to bankruptcy. 

That's why I say the option which should be taken is to expand Game Freak and hire much more developers and provide them with exponentially more resources to match the new hardware they have to develop for. Breath of the Wild had a development team of over 300 people, which consisted of people from both Nintendo EPD and Monolith Soft, and that game also got delayed, twice. From 2015, to 2016, to finally, March 2017. Game Freak's number of employees as of 2018 stands at 143 people. That is simply not going to cut it. When you talk about delaying the game, I don't think you understand just how much extra time they would need. This isn't something as simple as just pushing the release from November to March for extra tune up, polish, and breathing room for the devs. The type of delay for a game of that scale and magnitude, with half the staff of Breath of the Wild, that many people hope for would take would take YEARS. That would have already been bad for a video game by itself, but for a franchise like Pokemon, when it has all of these other divisions, factors, and forms of media that are tied with the games and release alongside them. You're talking about 10s, maybe 100s, of millions of dollars right down the drain. That would be an absolute and total financial and PR disaster. That's why delaying the games is absolutely not an option, hence the only option is to expand and grow exponentially. Something that the Pokemon Company has yet to understand and is too stubborn to do, because, like I said, they think they can just get by like they always have and they're just putting off all the problems that will just keep growing and growing.

Can't deny, it's definitely true I'm ignorant in the ways of business n management. Granted you make it sound like a delay means they have to stop literally everything which is definitely not true. They'd still have revenue streams from pre-existing games and merch. Also, I'm not strictly suggesting they delay it to scrap everything and make it a BotW caliber game, as much as I'd like that. More realistically, I'd expect at least the bare minimum, that a Pokemon game have all Pokemon in the game.

I agree that Game Freak needs to expand, and them and the Pokemon Company should restructure themselves to be more flexible, but it's too late for that to have an effect on Sw/Sh now.



Ka-pi96 said:

But Game Freak/Nintendo own The Pokemon Company...

Yeah, but they also operate more-or-less autonomously from their parents.