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What Went Wrong? Wii U Edition

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Why did the Wii U failed?

Poor Marketing 15 23.44%
 
Outdated Hardware 7 10.94%
 
Lack of First Party Killer Apps 6 9.38%
 
Lack of 3rd Party support 0 0.00%
 
The tablet controller 6 9.38%
 
The Price 0 0.00%
 
All of the above 27 42.19%
 
None of the above 0 0.00%
 
The Wii killed the Wii U! 1 1.56%
 
WTH! The Wii U was a success! 2 3.13%
 
Total:64

It failed because people didn't buy enough copies of The Wonderful 101.



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RolStoppable said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

-_- Really? Just because I pointed out the errors in your rebuttal to an argument that I know to be faulty, you think I'm for that sort of argument? Really? Maybe you haven't paid attention to my posts for the past six years. I don't know how many thousand times I've posted that graphics don't matter. But okay. 

Gamecube lacked a DVD player, which made its price to features/performance ratio bad compared to the other two consoles. During the Switch's reveal a lot of posters here had given up on Nintendo entirely. Wii U was a travesty. All of 2016 was one massive dry spell for the console with the only great game being Fire Emblem x SMT. Being downtrodden, they took the least optimistic line of reasoning. 

I agree that applying a price to performance ratio doesn't predict squat for Nintendo consoles. That's why I said price to performance/features ratio. Gameboy, GBA, DS, Wii, and Switch have all sold based on their price to performance/features ratio. Gameboy wouldn't have sold if it didn't have a stupidly long battery life. The GBA SP's folding design was a godsend. DS had the touchscreen. Take motion controls away from the Wii and it's just another Gamecube. Take the portability away from the Switch and it's a regular console. 

But you ignored the phrase "price to performance/features", and instead attacked the strawman of "price to performance". 

I know a lot of people have come on these boards over the years asking for another Gamecube, and arguing that if Nintendo just made a console as powerful as the other two they would be back int the game. But please don't lump me in with them. 

It doesn't make a difference whether it's price to performance or price to performance/features. Explaining the low sales of the GameCube with the lack of a DVD player doesn't make sense because the Xbox sold only barely more units. Then you have the Wii which didn't play DVDs nor Blu-ray, so it should be clear how little movie playback matters for console sales. This old argument about DVD playback that the GC lacked is just as poor of an excuse for the failure of the console as marketing and name of the Wii U are for the failure of that console.

Excusing the terrible sales predictions for Switch makes you look like an apologist. If you take issue with being lumped in with an unfavorable group, don't stick up for such groups.

The paragraph in the middle of your post highlights the problem the most. You ignore a much bigger reason for success in order to make the point that the reasoning of price to performance/features ratio is correct. Battery life was just another advantage that the Game Boy had over its competitors; the key to success was that the Game Boy launched with Super Mario Land and Tetris and continued to get better games than the competitors had. For the GBA SP you even fail to name its better features which were a built-in battery and a backlit screen, both of which not being present in the original GBA; and again, the library of games is what really sold the system. 

The motion controller of the Wii was a means to an end; Nintendo recognized that many potential customers of video game consoles were left behind because games got more and more bloated over the years and tutorials could take an hour or more. The thing that the big Wii hits have in common is not motion controls, but the removal of the bloat and the trait to be fun games from the very first minute, whether that's Wii Sports, Mario Kart or New Super Mario Bros. The same thing holds true for the DS. Take portability away from Switch and it still has Breath of the Wild as launch title; lots of people in America and Europe don't use the portability of Switch and were still willing to pay $300 for the console anyway. Conversely, you have people who don't use the TV functionality.

Do you see where this leads? The games are at the center.

When you look at the GC and Wii U, Nintendo's two worst-selling home consoles, they feature first party lineups where actual killer apps are rare. On the GC, Nintendo took experimental directions with 3D Mario, 3D Zelda and Mario Kart, so despite Nintendo getting out quite a few important games in the first couple of years, the reception was lukewarm at best. On the Wii U, the biggest problem was to get out games in time, so by the time hits like Mario Kart 8 and Super Smash Bros. for Wii U released, the overall software release schedule was already incredibly barren, so killer apps had next to no complementary software to go along with them.

The GC and Wii U are Nintendo's two worst-selling home consoles and with both Nintendo attempted to build a game library that is as close to PlayStation as possible. This intent demanded concessions which made the consoles bland and uninteresting. Switch got doomed because Nintendo's January 2017 presentation made it clear as day that Nintendo wasn't going to serve the big third party publishers with the console. The Wii got doomed because Nintendo was so wrong to allow Sony and Microsoft to pull away by so much. But PlayStation and Xbox suck, that's why Nintendo is so successful.

Xbox sold at Gamecube levels despite having a DVD player for several reasons. Xbox was a new unproven brand. The 90's are a vast graveyard of failed "new consoles". Consumers were rightfully wary. It sold horribly in Japan. The DVD playback required a $30 add on. Had Nintendo launched the Gamecube with standard disc sizes, and built in DVD playback for no increase in price it would have helped Nintendo tremendously. This is because unlike Xbox, Nintendo was a proven brand. Unlike Xbox, Nintendo was well liked in Japan. And IMO Nintendo just had better games than Xbox. 

By the time the Wii came around DVD playback didn't matter at all, because everybody already had something that could play DVDs by that time. DVD players were cheap and ubiquitous in households by 2006. They were not in 2000 and 2001. When the PS2 came out DVD players were expensive, so many parents just opted buy their kids that much wanted PS2 and use it as a DVD player, killing two birds with one stone. 

Quoting people when they are down is a bad idea. You will always get a negative answer. Nintendo could have revealed a PS4 Pro level Switch in early 2017 and people still would have called it a terrible value proposition. I'm not defending anyone. Just trying to explain why using predictions from January 2017 is a bad idea. It would be like a psychologist asking people how happy they are, but only doing so after funerals, and then concluding that 95% of all people suffer from depression.

I agree that library is the most important aspect of a console. Check my first post in this thread if you don't believe me. I was never trying to argue that price to performance/features was more important than games. I was just pointing out the obvious fact that Switch has a much better price to performance/features ratio than Wii U. And from there I went on to show that most of Nintendo's successes all had good price to performance/features ratios too. 

And yes, while I said that all those consoles sold on their price to performance/features ratio, I didn't mean that was the sole driving factor of sales for those consoles! (Except for the OG Gameboy, at least until Poke'mon saved it!)



The sentence below is false. 
The sentence above is true. 

SammyGiireal said:

A bit biased aren't we? Last I heard the PS4 sold over 100 million units...and remains selling strongly on a weekly basis.

And Wii sold over 100m and Switch will sell over 100m. Then you consider the handheld market in the previous two generations and it's clear as day that PlayStation (and Xbox) aren't even remotely close to being the be all, end all in the console market. There is large demand for consoles that are not like PS and Xbox, and that's the expectation that the market has towards Nintendo and it has been proven time and time again.

With the Wii U at E3 2012, Nintendo spent more time on AAA third party games than their own games. As if the important thing would be to have the same games as PS and Xbox. Nintendo was very wrong, but that's part of the reason how the Gamepad came to be. Third parties wanted a dual analog controller and the hook that Nintendo came up with was not as commonly mistakingly believed to emulate tablets, but the revival of the failed multi-screen idea that existed on the GameCube with the GBA connectivity. That's why it's no coincidence that The Wind Waker was remastered (used the GBA link on the GC) and that Nintendo Land featured game ideas that were present in Pac-man Vs. (another GC game). The Wii U was intended to support more than one Gamepad, but that idea got shelved because it was already too much of a challenge to sell the console with one Gamepad.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV (360+PS3) would outsell SSBB. I was wrong.

A Biased Review Reloaded / Open Your Eyes / Switch Gamers Club

Low specs, higher price because of mandatory gimmick, confusing name, next gen right in the corner, didn't have a launch killer app, zero third party support... Too many things.
I actually like the poor thing gimmick more than it's vastly successful older brother the Wii.
Sadly I'm not a reflex of society, usually what I like people don't care much about and what a don't care much is a success...
The Wii U was definitely a big mess, tho.



RolStoppable said:
SammyGiireal said:

A bit biased aren't we? Last I heard the PS4 sold over 100 million units...and remains selling strongly on a weekly basis.

And Wii sold over 100m and Switch will sell over 100m. Then you consider the handheld market in the previous two generations and it's clear as day that PlayStation (and Xbox) aren't even remotely close to being the be all, end all in the console market. There is large demand for consoles that are not like PS and Xbox, and that's the expectation that the market has towards Nintendo and it has been proven time and time again.

With the Wii U at E3 2012, Nintendo spent more time on AAA third party games than their own games. As if the important thing would be to have the same games as PS and Xbox. Nintendo was very wrong, but that's part of the reason how the Gamepad came to be. Third parties wanted a dual analog controller and the hook that Nintendo came up with was not as commonly mistakingly believed to emulate tablets, but the revival of the failed multi-screen idea that existed on the GameCube with the GBA connectivity. That's why it's no coincidence that The Wind Waker was remastered (used the GBA link on the GC) and that Nintendo Land featured game ideas that were present in Pac-man Vs. (another GC game). The Wii U was intended to support more than one Gamepad, but that idea got shelved because it was already too much of a challenge to sell the console with one Gamepad.

Well Sony has been for the most part the HOME console market King since 1995.  The PS4 will come close to doing PS2 numbers. The Switch remains a portable, with the lite iteration it is clear it is the 3DS successor more so than the WiiU's.  You can't say that Sony sucks...or even Microsoft let's be honest, they dropped the ball with the Xbox one. But before it the Xbox and the 360 offered some amazing game experiences in the OG Xbox's case not possible on competing systems. The OG Xbox out sold the Cube because it was a behemoth in horse power at the time, and had some amazing games. Halo, and Halo 2, Forza, Ninja Gaiden, Half Life 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Chronicles of Riddick.  The sports and multiplats ran like a dream. It was a very good first attempt from the company. It was also the first console with an integrated HDD. 

I say all this as a Nintendo fan, I have owned their consoles because I am a Zelda fan. But there are experiences I can't get on their systems and vice versa. The Switch has been a magnificent success but it has alot of stuff going for it, and being the most powerful handheld gaming system has helped. It has the horsepower to run some of the big selling AAA games (with some cut backs)  and that has been huge for it. 



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Mr Puggsly said:
theRepublic said:
Software. The answer is almost always the software.

The name, also known as marketing, did not help.

We are seeing virtually the same software thrive on Switch.

If those same games were downgraded for the original Wii, they would have succeeded there as well.

Launch titles matter.  Where was the Wii U's Breath of the Wild?  If it came out in the first year of the console's life instead of the last, it could have made a difference.  Not to mention Super Mario Odyssey followed up as another hit title only about 7 months later.  That was just in time for the Switch's first holiday season.  Two hit games during the console's first holiday season is huge.  Around 40 to 50%% of game sales happen in just November and December.  Being so early in the console's life, that is going to move a lot of hardware as well.

Wii U had Nintendo Land and New Super Mario Bros U for its first holiday.  Super Mario 3D World for the second holiday (and a remaster of Wind Waker if you want to include an, at the time, 11 year old game).  The third holiday finally had two big hitters in Mario Kart 8 and Smash Bros.  But that is already the third holiday season for the console.  Basically too late at that point to make a big difference.  And none of those games were the massive hit Breath of the Wild was.

Do we have sales numbers on the Wii U to Switch ports?  I would love to see the numbers.



NNID: theRepublic -- Steam ID: theRepublic

Now Playing/Backlog:
Wii U - Currently Gaming Like It's 2014 (Hyrule Warriors) - 11 games in backlog
3DS - Currently Gaming Like It's 2013 (Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon) - 7 games in backlog
PC - Currently Gaming Like It's 2012 (Borderlands 2) - 11 games in backlog
Mobile - The Simpson's Tapped Out and Yugioh Duel Links

theRepublic said:
Mr Puggsly said:

We are seeing virtually the same software thrive on Switch.

If those same games were downgraded for the original Wii, they would have succeeded there as well.

Launch titles matter.  Where was the Wii U's Breath of the Wild?  If it came out in the first year of the console's life instead of the last, it could have made a difference.  Not to mention Super Mario Odyssey followed up as another hit title only about 7 months later.  That was just in time for the Switch's first holiday season.  Two hit games during the console's first holiday season is huge.  Around 40 to 50%% of game sales happen in just November and December.  Being so early in the console's life, that is going to move a lot of hardware as well.

Wii U had Nintendo Land and New Super Mario Bros U for its first holiday.  Super Mario 3D World for the second holiday (and a remaster of Wind Waker if you want to include an, at the time, 11 year old game).  The third holiday finally had two big hitters in Mario Kart 8 and Smash Bros.  But that is already the third holiday season for the console.  Basically too late at that point to make a big difference.  And none of those games were the massive hit Breath of the Wild was.

Do we have sales numbers on the Wii U to Switch ports?  I would love to see the numbers.

While I agree BotW and Super Mario Odyssey would have helped the Wii U sell more units, but we're talking about a console that only sold about 13 million units. Would those games have pushed it to 20 million? 25 million? Not everybody buying a Switch has Mario Odyssey or BotW. People were much more hyped about the Switch hardware in general versus the Wii U.

Basically I'm gonna stress the fact the Wii U sold horribly in spite of have notable content. If the console was closer to $199 at launch and simply used Wiimotes, I feel more people would have been willing to buy one even with the software complaints you mentioned. I don't believe the hardware ever went below $249 officially and that tablet control looked cumbersome and useless (fun fact: it was mostly useless). If the Wii U was just console and a Wiimote, it could have hit $99 to $149 at some point.

But again, it probably best the Wii U failed as it did because it was inspiration for the Switch. I'm also glad Nintendo has technically exited the home console market.

VGChartz has numbers for some Wii U to Switch ports. The Wii U had strong content that does well on Switch, but people weren't will to get the hardware.



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Bad marketing, the inability to present it as a true successor to the Wii and Nintendos misbelief that 3rd parties should be cared about.

Off topic: I still love it and I love it's library, no matter what. Fuck the haters. Off-TV-play is the best thing that ever happened to gaming before the Switch came.



Gameplay > Graphics

Substance > Style

Art Direction > Realism

Mr Puggsly said:
theRepublic said:

Launch titles matter.  Where was the Wii U's Breath of the Wild?  If it came out in the first year of the console's life instead of the last, it could have made a difference.  Not to mention Super Mario Odyssey followed up as another hit title only about 7 months later.  That was just in time for the Switch's first holiday season.  Two hit games during the console's first holiday season is huge.  Around 40 to 50%% of game sales happen in just November and December.  Being so early in the console's life, that is going to move a lot of hardware as well.

Wii U had Nintendo Land and New Super Mario Bros U for its first holiday.  Super Mario 3D World for the second holiday (and a remaster of Wind Waker if you want to include an, at the time, 11 year old game).  The third holiday finally had two big hitters in Mario Kart 8 and Smash Bros.  But that is already the third holiday season for the console.  Basically too late at that point to make a big difference.  And none of those games were the massive hit Breath of the Wild was.

Do we have sales numbers on the Wii U to Switch ports?  I would love to see the numbers.

While I agree BotW and Super Mario Odyssey would have helped the Wii U sell more units, but we're talking about a console that only sold about 13 million units. Would those games have pushed it to 20 million? 25 million? Not everybody buying a Switch has Mario Odyssey or BotW. People were much more hyped about the Switch hardware in general versus the Wii U.

Basically I'm gonna stress the fact the Wii U sold horribly in spite of have notable content. If the console was closer to $199 at launch and simply used Wiimotes, I feel more people would have been willing to buy one even with the software complaints you mentioned. I don't believe the hardware ever went below $249 officially and that tablet control looked cumbersome and useless (fun fact: it was mostly useless). If the Wii U was just console and a Wiimote, it could have hit $99 to $149 at some point.

But again, it probably best the Wii U failed as it did because it was inspiration for the Switch. I'm also glad Nintendo has technically exited the home console market.

VGChartz has numbers for some Wii U to Switch ports. The Wii U had strong content that does well on Switch, but people weren't will to get the hardware.

The Gamecube dropped to $99, and that didn't help it to move units.  It launched at $100 cheaper than the PS2 or Xbox, and that didn't do it.  Why would it work for the Wii U when it didn't for the Gamecube?  Software moves the hardware.



NNID: theRepublic -- Steam ID: theRepublic

Now Playing/Backlog:
Wii U - Currently Gaming Like It's 2014 (Hyrule Warriors) - 11 games in backlog
3DS - Currently Gaming Like It's 2013 (Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon) - 7 games in backlog
PC - Currently Gaming Like It's 2012 (Borderlands 2) - 11 games in backlog
Mobile - The Simpson's Tapped Out and Yugioh Duel Links

theRepublic said:
Mr Puggsly said:

While I agree BotW and Super Mario Odyssey would have helped the Wii U sell more units, but we're talking about a console that only sold about 13 million units. Would those games have pushed it to 20 million? 25 million? Not everybody buying a Switch has Mario Odyssey or BotW. People were much more hyped about the Switch hardware in general versus the Wii U.

Basically I'm gonna stress the fact the Wii U sold horribly in spite of have notable content. If the console was closer to $199 at launch and simply used Wiimotes, I feel more people would have been willing to buy one even with the software complaints you mentioned. I don't believe the hardware ever went below $249 officially and that tablet control looked cumbersome and useless (fun fact: it was mostly useless). If the Wii U was just console and a Wiimote, it could have hit $99 to $149 at some point.

But again, it probably best the Wii U failed as it did because it was inspiration for the Switch. I'm also glad Nintendo has technically exited the home console market.

VGChartz has numbers for some Wii U to Switch ports. The Wii U had strong content that does well on Switch, but people weren't will to get the hardware.

The Gamecube dropped to $99, and that didn't help it to move units.  It launched at $100 cheaper than the PS2 or Xbox, and that didn't do it.  Why would it work for the Wii U when it didn't for the Gamecube?  Software moves the hardware.

The GameCube had great software though. It had Rogue Squadron 2 at Launch. If you remember that game looked fantastic and recieved great critical praise. It went on to get WW, Metroid prime (an ATG game) SMS, SSMB, and it also had RE4 exclusively for a time, which was a revolutionary game at the time.

I think the PS2 just sold too fast at the time (even though its launch lineup was bad), the Xbox was a tech behemoth, and Halo was a revelation indeed. The GC would have been served better had it supported DVD functionality (this was a big thing at the start of the millennium).