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I kicked intel to the curb, I'm a Ryzen boi now.

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fatslob-:O said:
Pemalite said:

Absolutely false. 720P is still important and used often by a chunk of the market.
https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Software-Survey-Welcome-to-Steam

Often it's desktops that use integrated graphics or the lowest-rung discreet GPU's that would sit at 720P... It's not just notebooks and portable systems.

I think you need to recheck the steam hardware survey stats since only 0.4% of all displays account for a 720p resolution. The next most common resolution is 768p which is a very rare desktop supported monitor resolution and is more commonly found in Laptop supported display resolutions ...

False.
The notebook before my Ryzen notebook was 1280x720 resolution. I also have an old 32" Television in the shed which is 1366x768 and I have an old 17" LCD monitor which is 1366x768.

In-fact a few years ago most low-end Twisted Nematic panels that were 21" and smaller were 1366x768... And Newegg USA itself has 230~ such 1366x768 panels verses 4x for 1280x720 panels.

Couple of 1366x768 desktop monitors as an example:
- https://www.newegg.com/lg-19m38d-b-19-wxga/p/N82E16824025394
- https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16824260378

fatslob-:O said:

Also, integrated graphics is irrelevant to the topic of this discussion at hand which is about CPU performance because at that graphics performance is more important than CPU performance ... 

720p is especially irrelevant for high-end gaming and shouldn't be used for testing purposes at all ... 

Integrated graphics is entirely relevant. If you are running say... A Ryzen APU with 11 Vega CU's, you are not gaming at 1080P. You are gaming at 720P which these benchmarks tend to represent and the CPU can quickly become the limiting factor. - Many people also happily buy an APU for gaming purposes with the intention of dropping in a discreet GPU at a later date.

720P benchmarking is meant to place an emphasis on CPU performance discrepancies in the most extreme of scenarios, it is not going to be applicable to everyone, but they also hold some statistical value for others.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

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I dunno, AMD has been doing great recently but I always prefer Intel. They have never let me down since the 2 series i7 processors. Very nice PC, I am looking forward to upgrading my PC again but not for at least another year.



You all are asking the wrong questions!

The only interesting question is: How long are the late game turn times in Civ VI with the largest map and CPU civs maxed? (With my current computer from 2013 we are talking of many minutes per turn).



Personally have had a Ryzen 7 1800x since release. However, recently, I upgraded to a 3900x. Never understood the whole intel fanboying thing. Just get what's best for you. Once it goes in, I really don't care who made it, as long as it's doing what I need it to do.



Pemalite said:

False.
The notebook before my Ryzen notebook was 1280x720 resolution. I also have an old 32" Television in the shed which is 1366x768 and I have an old 17" LCD monitor which is 1366x768.

In-fact a few years ago most low-end Twisted Nematic panels that were 21" and smaller were 1366x768... And Newegg USA itself has 230~ such 1366x768 panels verses 4x for 1280x720 panels.

Couple of 1366x768 desktop monitors as an example:
- https://www.newegg.com/lg-19m38d-b-19-wxga/p/N82E16824025394
- https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16824260378

Anecdote =/= representative sample .... 

As far as Steam is concerned, 720p doesn't exist to them ... 

Pemalite said:

Integrated graphics is entirely relevant. If you are running say... A Ryzen APU with 11 Vega CU's, you are not gaming at 1080P. You are gaming at 720P which these benchmarks tend to represent and the CPU can quickly become the limiting factor. - Many people also happily buy an APU for gaming purposes with the intention of dropping in a discreet GPU at a later date.

720P benchmarking is meant to place an emphasis on CPU performance discrepancies in the most extreme of scenarios, it is not going to be applicable to everyone, but they also hold some statistical value for others.

@Bold Show me otherwise since all evidence points to AMD APUs having the highest gaming performance. Even Intel's best solution is using AMD's Vega M graphics ... 

Those people who dropped in a discrete GPU with an APU obviously made the wrong choice since their build isn't optimal for high gaming performance ... (they make the intention of sacrificing their foundation for flexibility anyways)

720p isn't applicable for measuring CPU performance anymore since NO high-end gamers play at that resolution so reviewers should find something else better to benchmark because otherwise they may as well be pointlessly scraping the bottom of the barrel by testing with resolutions such as 480p or even 144p ...

720p could have relevance for low-end graphics performance but that's the end of it ... 



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fatslob-:O said:
Pemalite said:

False.
The notebook before my Ryzen notebook was 1280x720 resolution. I also have an old 32" Television in the shed which is 1366x768 and I have an old 17" LCD monitor which is 1366x768.

In-fact a few years ago most low-end Twisted Nematic panels that were 21" and smaller were 1366x768... And Newegg USA itself has 230~ such 1366x768 panels verses 4x for 1280x720 panels.

Couple of 1366x768 desktop monitors as an example:
- https://www.newegg.com/lg-19m38d-b-19-wxga/p/N82E16824025394
- https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16824260378

Anecdote =/= representative sample .... 

As far as Steam is concerned, 720p doesn't exist to them ... 

It's not Ancedotal. I am not going to list all 230~ monitors from Newegg. (Verses 4x for 1280x720.)
But you are more than free to look it up yourself if you think I am lieing.

1366x768 is generally regarded as "720P class" resolution, which is represented in the Steam statistics that I provided prior.

fatslob-:O said:

@Bold Show me otherwise since all evidence points to AMD APUs having the highest gaming performance. Even Intel's best solution is using AMD's Vega M graphics ... 

I never stated that AMD didn't have the highest graphics performance out of all integrated graphics? So no evidence necessary.

fatslob-:O said:

Those people who dropped in a discrete GPU with an APU obviously made the wrong choice since their build isn't optimal for high gaming performance ... (they make the intention of sacrificing their foundation for flexibility anyways)

An absolutely irrelevant argument. Their choice isn't our business, they still made it.

fatslob-:O said:

720p isn't applicable for measuring CPU performance anymore since NO high-end gamers play at that resolution so reviewers should find something else better to benchmark because otherwise they may as well be pointlessly scraping the bottom of the barrel by testing with resolutions such as 480p or even 144p ...

720p could have relevance for low-end graphics performance but that's the end of it ... 

Nah. For the reasons I alluded to prior. An extra datapoint isn't a bad thing.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Pemalite said:

It's not Ancedotal. I am not going to list all 230~ monitors from Newegg. (Verses 4x for 1280x720.)
But you are more than free to look it up yourself if you think I am lieing.

1366x768 is generally regarded as "720P class" resolution, which is represented in the Steam statistics that I provided prior.

The ~230 monitors pale in comparison to the thousands of other options out there that aren't 720p ... 

I didn't claim that you're lying but I am saying that you're statements thus far aren't representative of the gaming population ... 

768p is a common laptop resolution but it's not a common desktop resolution which makes it irrelevant for our purposes of trying to compare desktop CPUs ... 

Pemalite said:

I never stated that AMD didn't have the highest graphics performance out of all integrated graphics? So no evidence necessary.

You aren't paying attention to the benchmarks, AMD's higher integrated graphics performance in those cases actually translates to higher gaming performance ...

Intel's higher CPU performance on the other hand isn't ... 

Pemalite said:

An absolutely irrelevant argument. Their choice isn't our business, they still made it.

Their choice also isn't relevant to high-end gaming benchmarks so their making a compromise anyway ... (even Intel has compromise options so the CPU performance of APUs isn't anything special) 

Pemalite said:

Nah. For the reasons I alluded to prior. An extra datapoint isn't a bad thing.

An extra datapoint doesn't necessarily mean it's a useful datapoint ... 



fatslob-:O said:
Pemalite said:

It's not Ancedotal. I am not going to list all 230~ monitors from Newegg. (Verses 4x for 1280x720.)
But you are more than free to look it up yourself if you think I am lieing.

1366x768 is generally regarded as "720P class" resolution, which is represented in the Steam statistics that I provided prior.

The ~230 monitors pale in comparison to the thousands of other options out there that aren't 720p ... 

I didn't claim that you're lying but I am saying that you're statements thus far aren't representative of the gaming population ... 

768p is a common laptop resolution but it's not a common desktop resolution which makes it irrelevant for our purposes of trying to compare desktop CPUs ... 

Errrr... Did you miss the part where I stated that 720P panels used to be more popular in the low-end than they are today? Steam statistics does not reflect the current hardware being sold on shelves, it reflects all hardwar that has been sold and currently in use irrespective of era.

Honestly thought you would have understood that.

768P used to be a common desktop resolution in low end TN panels. - The fact that there are hundreds of 768 panels currently on sale on newegg USA is exactly reinforcing that particular idea.

fatslob-:O said:
Pemalite said:

I never stated that AMD didn't have the highest graphics performance out of all integrated graphics? So no evidence necessary.

You aren't paying attention to the benchmarks, AMD's higher integrated graphics performance in those cases actually translates to higher gaming performance ...

Intel's higher CPU performance on the other hand isn't ...

Not in all CPU bound scenarios at 720P.

fatslob-:O said:
Pemalite said:

An absolutely irrelevant argument. Their choice isn't our business, they still made it.

Their choice also isn't relevant to high-end gaming benchmarks so their making a compromise anyway ... (even Intel has compromise options so the CPU performance of APUs isn't anything special) 

And yet... They still going to make that choice and yet... They are still consumers... And yet, the benchmarks presented will be palatable to such a demographic.

fatslob-:O said:
Pemalite said:

Nah. For the reasons I alluded to prior. An extra datapoint isn't a bad thing.

An extra datapoint doesn't necessarily mean it's a useful datapoint ... 

See above. Clearly it use useful to some. Just because it's not useful to you, doesn't mean it's not useful to others.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Probably best to let the argument go, peoples views are strong and hard to shift. Respect and move on or it just goes on and on.



*Insert wrong opinion*