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Astral Chain Debuts at No.1 in the UK

Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Astral Chain Debuts at No.1 in the UK

CrazyGamer2017 said:
abronn627 said:

You’re right, people also tend to forget about second hand value and inventory. Games which have tendencies to drop fast in price also have the tendency to be returned as trade-in faster, which affect the inventory available against the demand.

A company like GameStop needs the second hand market to be profitable, but if they’re not moving their new inventory because they move too much second hand units, sales will follow.

It’s easy to complain about Nintendo’s pricing philosophy, which os based on offer and demand, but a look at the used market shows that their approach is the right one if your games can be marketed as such.

For example, since both released few days appart, take Zelda BotW and Horizon Zero Dawn. GameStop’s value for Zelda is 33$ as of today, while HZD is at 3.30$, and if you go in store you’ll have trouble finding a used copy of Zelda while HZD’s are all over the shelves and bins. Zelda’s higher price also guarantee a better value and the time it takes for them to sell a used copy tells us that’s there still a lot of demand for it.

In term of business, Nintendo’s doing the right thing. 

Again their prices are good for THEM, and NOT for the consumer, and I'm not sure why some people almost religiously defend any brand and cheer for said brand in such a way that comes into contradiction with his/her own interests?

Regardless, I don't fully get this as it being the explanation for Nintendo's games prices holding in value over time the way they do. I mean your example of Horizon Zero Dawn and Zelda Breath of the Wild is a relevant one.

BOTH games have sold past 10 millions copies, both games are tremendous successes and both games are NATURALLY right now NOT selling much. Unless you want to argue that BOTW is number one in sales right now, I don't see why it holds in value. GTA5 which is completely crushing both BOTW and HZD put together in terms of sales can be found at a very low price so success has obviously nothing to do with how much a game is priced years after release.

There is something else going on here, I don't know what but Nintendo is not a good choice when it comes to consumer's best interest. Sure Nintendo much prefers to sell BOTW at full price even almost 3 years after release but I'm much happier with Sony selling their games at a very small price after that much time their games are released, it's much more interesting for me, the consumer and it's what the consumer should be looking into.

I don't know what the deal is so I cannot say for sure but I suspect Nintendo doing something to keep prices artificially high. Why else EVERY single other games publishers get their games selling at a very good price sometimes months only after release but not Nintendo?

You guys shouldn't be happy about this price issue, you shouldn't be applauding Nintendo for this cause it's NOT in your interest.

The one benefit I like about their games is that I never feel robbed buying a game soon after release. I don’t mind paying $60 for a good game, so I don’t mind their practices 



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CrazyGamer2017 said:
abronn627 said:

You’re right, people also tend to forget about second hand value and inventory. Games which have tendencies to drop fast in price also have the tendency to be returned as trade-in faster, which affect the inventory available against the demand.

A company like GameStop needs the second hand market to be profitable, but if they’re not moving their new inventory because they move too much second hand units, sales will follow.

It’s easy to complain about Nintendo’s pricing philosophy, which os based on offer and demand, but a look at the used market shows that their approach is the right one if your games can be marketed as such.

For example, since both released few days appart, take Zelda BotW and Horizon Zero Dawn. GameStop’s value for Zelda is 33$ as of today, while HZD is at 3.30$, and if you go in store you’ll have trouble finding a used copy of Zelda while HZD’s are all over the shelves and bins. Zelda’s higher price also guarantee a better value and the time it takes for them to sell a used copy tells us that’s there still a lot of demand for it.

In term of business, Nintendo’s doing the right thing. 

Again their prices are good for THEM, and NOT for the consumer, and I'm not sure why some people almost religiously defend any brand and cheer for said brand in such a way that comes into contradiction with his/her own interests?

Regardless, I don't fully get this as it being the explanation for Nintendo's games prices holding in value over time the way they do. I mean your example of Horizon Zero Dawn and Zelda Breath of the Wild is a relevant one.

BOTH games have sold past 10 millions copies, both games are tremendous successes and both games are NATURALLY right now NOT selling much. Unless you want to argue that BOTW is number one in sales right now, I don't see why it holds in value. GTA5 which is completely crushing both BOTW and HZD put together in terms of sales can be found at a very low price so success has obviously nothing to do with how much a game is prices years after release.

There is something else going on here, I don't know what but Nintendo is not a good choice when it comes to consumer's best interest. Sure Nintendo much prefers to sell BOTW at full price even almost 3 years after release but I'm much happier with Sony selling their games at a very small price after that much time their games are released, it's much more interesting for me, the consumer and it's what the consumer should be looking into.

I don't know what the deal is so I cannot say for sure but I suspect Nintendo doing something to keep prices artificially high. Why else EVERY single other games publishers get their games selling at a very good price sometimes months only after release but not Nintendo?

You guys shouldn't be happy about this price issue, you shouldn't be applauding Nintendo for this cause it's NOT in your interest.

The easy answer to your comment is because they can and the others can’t.

They build their business model on the value of their games and their IPs, lowering the value because you need to sell something is good when you need to do it. I used the comparaison to show that even a second hand version, which is not influenced by the publishers anymore, can keep a high value for a long time, it’s not at the expense of the customers if they’re willing to pay said price. If it doesn’t fit with your value, there’s nothing I can say to make you accept to pay higher for a game you don’t think it’s worth the price asked and that’s you right.

But it’s easy to look at Nintendo the bad way now for it’s pricing policy, you also have to remember that before gen 7, this was normal practice. It’s not that I praise Nintendo for this, but I prefer when a game company can only depend on the sales of the game to be profitable and not fall in a full DLC and microtransactions pattern.

Last edited by abronn627 - on 02 September 2019

MasonADC said:
CrazyGamer2017 said:

Again their prices are good for THEM, and NOT for the consumer, and I'm not sure why some people almost religiously defend any brand and cheer for said brand in such a way that comes into contradiction with his/her own interests?

Regardless, I don't fully get this as it being the explanation for Nintendo's games prices holding in value over time the way they do. I mean your example of Horizon Zero Dawn and Zelda Breath of the Wild is a relevant one.

BOTH games have sold past 10 millions copies, both games are tremendous successes and both games are NATURALLY right now NOT selling much. Unless you want to argue that BOTW is number one in sales right now, I don't see why it holds in value. GTA5 which is completely crushing both BOTW and HZD put together in terms of sales can be found at a very low price so success has obviously nothing to do with how much a game is priced years after release.

There is something else going on here, I don't know what but Nintendo is not a good choice when it comes to consumer's best interest. Sure Nintendo much prefers to sell BOTW at full price even almost 3 years after release but I'm much happier with Sony selling their games at a very small price after that much time their games are released, it's much more interesting for me, the consumer and it's what the consumer should be looking into.

I don't know what the deal is so I cannot say for sure but I suspect Nintendo doing something to keep prices artificially high. Why else EVERY single other games publishers get their games selling at a very good price sometimes months only after release but not Nintendo?

You guys shouldn't be happy about this price issue, you shouldn't be applauding Nintendo for this cause it's NOT in your interest.

The one benefit I like about their games is that I never feel robbed buying a game soon after release. I don’t mind paying $60 for a good game, so I don’t mind their practices 

This is also a valid point.



abronn627 said:

The easy answer to your comment is because they can and the others can’t.

They build their business model on the value of their games and their IPs, lowering the value because you need to sell something is good when you need to do it. I used the comparaison to show that even a second hand version, which is not influenced by the publishers anymore, can keep a high value for a long time, it’s not at the expense of the customers if they’re willing to pay said price. If it doesn’t fit with your value, there’s nothing I can say to make you accept to pay higher for a game you don’t think it’s worth the price asked and that’s you right.

But it’s easy to look at Nintendo the bad way now for it’s pricing policy, you also have to remember that before gen 7, this was normal practice. It’s not that I praise Nintendo for this, but I prefer when a game company can only depend on the sales of the game to be profitable and not fall in a full DLC and microtransactions pattern.

To be clear I'm not saying this game or that game isn't worth the price. I don't value a game by its price because if I did then that would imply I'm calling The Last of us a bad game cause you can find it for less than 20 euros/dollars nowadays. Is God of War a bad game cause it's not sold at a full 60 dollars right now? Nope, it used to sell at full price and now most people who will ever buy it already bought it so it makes sense to lower the price so that people that may not think of buying it now could be tempted into getting it. It's business as business should be. Something is very attractive on day one, the price is high, after a while sales come down as they are expected to eventually, the price goes down too.

But Nintendo would rather lose some "end of life" sales than to lower the price over time and that strikes me as anti-consumer. By that logic, food and water should be super expensive cause people can never stop getting those, the way housing and health care keep going higher and higher in price. How is that good for people?

But I digress. So how is Nintendo not going the way of DLC's and micro-transactions? Isn't BOTW containing not only DLC's that you must pay extra for but also hiding a hard game mode for that game behind a paywall? Doesn't seem like keeping their games' prices high stops them from making DLC's and making you pay extra to access the hard mode.

Like I said before, If I end up getting a Switch, either games end up coming down in price, even a very long time after, I don't mind that, or I will only buy a very limited amount of games, only the top ones (BOTW, Super Mario Odyssey, Metroid Prime 4, maybe that 2D Zelda recently released whose name I don't remember right now and that's it) and I will be fine with that. Not sure how it wouldn't be better for both Nintendo and I, that I buy a ton of games rather than just a few or even risk not getting a Switch at all which is still an option.

I think Nintendo's philosophy on pricing is similar to the one of luxury cars. Those companies know very well they'll never sell billions of cars but at the same time they never meant to, they're fine selling to a small elite minority who can afford to pay full price.



.

He who has nothing to hide does not deserve to be called an individual.

Capitalism has convinced people to buy stuff they don't need with money they don't have to impress people who don't give a shit. (George Carlin)

mZuzek said:
The thing that has me most at ease about this game's sales is its Metacritic page. There's already several hundred hater votes on the user score... and if there's haters, there's hype.

Believing in the authenticity of Metacritic user score .... hehehe. (Not directed at you don't worry)



Switch Friend Code : 3905-6122-2909 

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CrazyGamer2017 said:
abronn627 said:

You’re right, people also tend to forget about second hand value and inventory. Games which have tendencies to drop fast in price also have the tendency to be returned as trade-in faster, which affect the inventory available against the demand.

A company like GameStop needs the second hand market to be profitable, but if they’re not moving their new inventory because they move too much second hand units, sales will follow.

It’s easy to complain about Nintendo’s pricing philosophy, which os based on offer and demand, but a look at the used market shows that their approach is the right one if your games can be marketed as such.

For example, since both released few days appart, take Zelda BotW and Horizon Zero Dawn. GameStop’s value for Zelda is 33$ as of today, while HZD is at 3.30$, and if you go in store you’ll have trouble finding a used copy of Zelda while HZD’s are all over the shelves and bins. Zelda’s higher price also guarantee a better value and the time it takes for them to sell a used copy tells us that’s there still a lot of demand for it.

In term of business, Nintendo’s doing the right thing. 

Again their prices are good for THEM, and NOT for the consumer, and I'm not sure why some people almost religiously defend any brand and cheer for said brand in such a way that comes into contradiction with his/her own interests?

Regardless, I don't fully get this as it being the explanation for Nintendo's games prices holding in value over time the way they do. I mean your example of Horizon Zero Dawn and Zelda Breath of the Wild is a relevant one.

BOTH games have sold past 10 millions copies, both games are tremendous successes and both games are NATURALLY right now NOT selling much. Unless you want to argue that BOTW is number one in sales right now, I don't see why it holds in value. GTA5 which is completely crushing both BOTW and HZD put together in terms of sales can be found at a very low price so success has obviously nothing to do with how much a game is priced years after release.

There is something else going on here, I don't know what but Nintendo is not a good choice when it comes to consumer's best interest. Sure Nintendo much prefers to sell BOTW at full price even almost 3 years after release but I'm much happier with Sony selling their games at a very small price after that much time their games are released, it's much more interesting for me, the consumer and it's what the consumer should be looking into.

I don't know what the deal is so I cannot say for sure but I suspect Nintendo doing something to keep prices artificially high. Why else EVERY single other games publishers get their games selling at a very good price sometimes months only after release but not Nintendo?

You guys shouldn't be happy about this price issue, you shouldn't be applauding Nintendo for this cause it's NOT in your interest.

Given people just talked about the high resell value of those games on the second hand market, this actually become a good incentive for the consummer, since they can just trade it for a high price to fetch more games which mean they don't have to pay that much to begin with.

"Unless you want to argue that BOTW is number one in sales right now, I don't see why it holds in value."

No, it is not, yet it still charts high in most retailers list or even the eshop and just like GTAV, sells better than some new games coming out during the year. Note that BOTW 2 announcement also pushed renewed interest in the title, interest which doesn't falter in any way by the asking price.

It seems that the conflict in this situation comes from the fact that you just can't understand or are willing to understand the perspective of those who don't share your perspective.



Switch Friend Code : 3905-6122-2909 

Mar1217 said:
CrazyGamer2017 said:

Again their prices are good for THEM, and NOT for the consumer, and I'm not sure why some people almost religiously defend any brand and cheer for said brand in such a way that comes into contradiction with his/her own interests?

Regardless, I don't fully get this as it being the explanation for Nintendo's games prices holding in value over time the way they do. I mean your example of Horizon Zero Dawn and Zelda Breath of the Wild is a relevant one.

BOTH games have sold past 10 millions copies, both games are tremendous successes and both games are NATURALLY right now NOT selling much. Unless you want to argue that BOTW is number one in sales right now, I don't see why it holds in value. GTA5 which is completely crushing both BOTW and HZD put together in terms of sales can be found at a very low price so success has obviously nothing to do with how much a game is priced years after release.

There is something else going on here, I don't know what but Nintendo is not a good choice when it comes to consumer's best interest. Sure Nintendo much prefers to sell BOTW at full price even almost 3 years after release but I'm much happier with Sony selling their games at a very small price after that much time their games are released, it's much more interesting for me, the consumer and it's what the consumer should be looking into.

I don't know what the deal is so I cannot say for sure but I suspect Nintendo doing something to keep prices artificially high. Why else EVERY single other games publishers get their games selling at a very good price sometimes months only after release but not Nintendo?

You guys shouldn't be happy about this price issue, you shouldn't be applauding Nintendo for this cause it's NOT in your interest.

Given people just talked about the high resell value of those games on the second hand market, this actually become a good incentive for the consummer, since they can just trade it for a high price to fetch more games which mean they don't have to pay that much to begin with.

"Unless you want to argue that BOTW is number one in sales right now, I don't see why it holds in value."

No, it is not, yet it still charts high in most retailers list or even the eshop and just like GTAV, sells better than some new games coming out during the year. Note that BOTW 2 announcement also pushed renewed interest in the title, interest which doesn't falter in any way by the asking price.

It seems that the conflict in this situation comes from the fact that you just can't understand or are willing to understand the perspective of those who don't share your perspective.

You could also add that in the case of GTA, Rockstar is smart to sell it a lower price than it’s original RSP since they get more revenue from the Online component than the initial sale of the game. Growing the userbase is more profitable for them. I’m also pretty sure the game would still chart high at it’s full price, but that’s the best strategy for them.

And for Zelda, if your game doesn’t depend on DLC or mtx for it’s revenue and it can still sell 1m per quarter, you'd be stupid to drop the price.

On topic: I’m sure Astral Chain will have some decent legs over the next few weeks, not the evergreen level, but still decent.



Mar1217 said:
Given people just talked about the high resell value of those games on the second hand market, this actually become a good incentive for the consummer, since they can just trade it for a high price to fetch more games which mean they don't have to pay that much to begin with."Unless you want to argue that BOTW is number one in sales right now, I don't see why it holds in value."No, it is not, yet it still charts high in most retailers list or even the eshop and just like GTAV, sells better than some new games coming out during the year. Note that BOTW 2 announcement also pushed renewed interest in the title, interest which doesn't falter in any way by the asking price.It seems that the conflict in this situation comes from the fact that you just can't understand or are willing to understand the perspective of those who don't share your perspective.

A good incentive for the consumer (high prices) Not really. You seem to forget that if you pay a low price and re-sell it at a low price you ALSO end up not paying much, therefore rendering your argument for a high price moot. This not mentioning people who buy those Nintendo games as digital downloads which pay the high price and have no re-selling options at all. At least when I buy a Sony game at a low price as a download, I don't re-sell it but it's ok cause I paid almost nothing for it to begin with.

Also it's funny that you accuse me of not understanding others' perspective when in fact it's actually the other way around. Others' perspective seem to be the main perspective thus making MY perspective the one that guys like you don't seem to understand...

And all that without even adding the fact that MY perspective is pro-consumer which you seem to be viewing as a heresy. How dare I not want to throw my cash at Nintendo, no questions asked, no limits in quantity asked, what's wrong with me, right?



.

He who has nothing to hide does not deserve to be called an individual.

Capitalism has convinced people to buy stuff they don't need with money they don't have to impress people who don't give a shit. (George Carlin)

CrazyGamer2017 said:

One thing that bothers me with Nintendo games is (and correct me if this has changed) that their games don't come down in price over time.

Take Zelda BOTW for instance, it's been two years and a half since that game's release and if I wanted to buy it now I'd still pay full price which is a problem cause it means playing Nintendo games is very expensive.

Which means that if I ever decided to get a Switch I'd have to either spend a lot of money in games or only play a very limited amount of games, just the big names like Zelda, Super Mario Odyssey and Metroid Prime 4.

I don't mean to sound harsh on this one, but as a person who is considering getting a Switch pro (which hasn't been announced) and someone who is doubting buying a Switch pro based on joy con drift which will almost certainly be a non issue by the time that hardware revision comes out.... you are not exactly Nintendos key demographic, it will be around 4 years of the systems life before you make a move towards buying it, in that time Breath of the Wild has remained in and around the top 30 charts for the Switch for 1,460 days or so for the majority of the time it has been $60 (there was a sale where all major Nintendo games were $40 for a few weeks.) but I'm just saying Nintendo do pretty damn well with their business model of making software which holds its value for a long period of time by creating games which consumers are happy to pay 60 bucks for when they get the system because they know there's good times to be had with them. Heck I've played botw for nearly 500 hours now, buying the game and dlc for 80 in total that steal means per euro spent on the title I've gotten around 6 hours of play, there are some AAA titles I've bought for the same cost and played for less than 6 hours total.

But aye, as someone who isn't buying Nintendo games / systems your feelings on how they should price their hardware/software really isn't a key concern to them I would have to imagine.



Fancy hearing me on an amateur podcast with friends gushing over one of my favourite games? https://youtu.be/1I7JfMMxhf8

Shiken said:
Stefan.De.Machtige said:
Good news, because this more or less flopped in Japan as i gather.

No it didn't.  They just did not buy the collector's edition.  It is number 1 on the Japanese eshop as we speak.  The game seems to be selling well in all regions.

That is excellent news. Glad i was wrong then . Go Astral Chain trilogy!



In the wilderness we go alone with our new knowledge and strength.