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Forums - Politics Discussion - SaveJames - Liberal mom forcing her son to act like a girl?

Torillian said:
sundin13 said:

The assertion seems to be something along the lines of Munchausen by Proxy, which is essentially when a parent fakes an illness for their child in order to get attention for themselves. While this is a real mental illness and form of child abuse, I do believe this argument is rooted in the belief that transgenderism (especially among children and teens) isn't real. You don't really see the same accusations being directed towards the parents of most sick children despite it being more common to use illness than to use transgenderism (I am not personally aware of any confirmed cases of Munchausen by Proxy through transgenderism)...

Note: I am not claiming that transgenderism is an illness.

For this particular instance, I think this had to do with people believing the parent that is vocal. Luna's mother decided she wanted to keep things private while the father has been out running the christian and conservative news rounds. I understand the mother's choice to try to keep her child from becoming a national point of debate, but having only one side of the story made it so easy for those who wanted to see this as a crazy liberal mother forcing her child to be trans. It takes someone going through court records to find the other side of things and you see that what we heard was only the father and his friends while we missed the testimony of Luna, two therapists, a CPS agent, Luna's twin brother, and the mother herself. 

All that said, I again cannot blame the mother. Near the end of the video in the OP the author talks about how Luna's mom had a twitter account where she would post helpful little tips for parents on all kinds of topics like making sure kids where sun screen in the heat and he would read it from time to time. Before the author posted the video, Luna's mom actually killed this twitter because every post was getting incessantly hammered for the Luna issue by conservatives. The video author talks about how this affected him and he wasn't sure why because seeing the actual abuse hadn't really had such an effect. He came to realize that he had been ascribing this almost saint-like resilience and perfection on the mother, that as long as she could ignore all the hate this was just an internet argument that hadn't affected her life. Seeing her kill the twitter was a reminder that she isn't impervious to this, and while we all debate about these things on forums there are real people on the other side of these issues often times getting hurt. 

To be fair, I'm somewhat hamstringing the discussion to talk about that portion of the video, but I found it poignant and wanted to hear others' thoughts. 

Yeah, I made that post about the greater trend before watching the video, not about this specific incident. While it does seem like Munchausen by Proxy was mentioned in the video, it doesn't really seem to make any sense like you said.

I will say that the video was really well made and I highly advise anyone who has heard about this incident to at least watch a bit of it, as it does provide a substantial amount of additional context and show how the prevailing narrative is inaccurate and deceitful.

I feel like there isn't much else for me to say, however, I do think we see by how few posts this thread is getting though that those who do support stories like this aren't really interested in the truth and are just interested in propaganda for the culture war... Thats just my opinion though.



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Hiku said:

Alex Jones' crowd are still harassing Sandy Hook parents for "faking their children's deaths", and talking about Pizzagate.
I think conspiracy theories primarily attract certain people.

Those who spend very little/no time researching stories they've read. And experience cognitive dissonance when presented with contradicting facts.

I've seen a lot of weird stories that sound suspect. Some here on these forums. And upon looking into them, often turn out to be inaccurate, because some key details were wrong/omitted, etc.

Best thing you can do is try to stay as informed as possible about subjects you take an interest in, that carry some importance, before voicing your opinion on them.
But unfortunately some people deliberately spread misinformation.

I mean you're wrong, but you believe what you want. We have an entire fake news media which lies directly to its audience with the exact opposite of the truth. It's pretty much the opposite. I am a conspiracy theorist of sorts and I have over 145 IQ.



teamsilent13 said:
Hiku said:

Alex Jones' crowd are still harassing Sandy Hook parents for "faking their children's deaths", and talking about Pizzagate.
I think conspiracy theories primarily attract certain people.

Those who spend very little/no time researching stories they've read. And experience cognitive dissonance when presented with contradicting facts.

I've seen a lot of weird stories that sound suspect. Some here on these forums. And upon looking into them, often turn out to be inaccurate, because some key details were wrong/omitted, etc.

Best thing you can do is try to stay as informed as possible about subjects you take an interest in, that carry some importance, before voicing your opinion on them.
But unfortunately some people deliberately spread misinformation.

I mean you're wrong, but you believe what you want. We have an entire fake news media which lies directly to its audience with the exact opposite of the truth. It's pretty much the opposite. I am a conspiracy theorist of sorts and I have over 145 IQ.

My IQ is 150.  I am still very stupid in a number of ways.  



SpokenTruth said:
teamsilent13 said:

I mean you're wrong, but you believe what you want. We have an entire fake news media which lies directly to its audience with the exact opposite of the truth. It's pretty much the opposite. I am a conspiracy theorist of sorts and I have over 145 IQ.

These tend to be mutually exclusive.

False. The far left has complete control over academia and the flow of information which has created many lies in our society. I've been tested multiple times in my life. I have family whom are either successful outright or obvious underachievers. Such as my cousin being a doctor at age 21 with a lot of academic success and a perfect SAT or my grandmother who did not go to college, but got a full scholarship to go to Wharton and had extremely high skills with stenography. I forget the exact words per minute, but when my mother explained it to me years ago I looked up statistics and my grandmother wasn't far off the human records. I don't think this was any sort of mistake. My grandfather was a computer programmer for the government and was heavily relied upon by his leech fellow government workers. My uncle is a doctor in Mensa and I believe some intelligence group above it. Almost my entire family is believes in some level of untruth in society and is politically dissident (aka far right). Even the lowest IQ people in my family such as my Filipino side greatly outlier the average Filipino and are above normal intelligence. My father was in the Army Security Agency. Almost everyone in my family was measured with high IQ throughout life and put into gifted programs and such. Most of my online friends who would be considered conspiracy theorists are also of high intelligence and have measured as such.



SpokenTruth said:
teamsilent13 said:

False. The far left has complete control over academia and the flow of information which has created many lies in our society. I've been tested multiple times in my life. I have family whom are either successful outright or obvious underachievers. Such as my cousin being a doctor at age 21 with a lot of academic success and a perfect SAT or my grandmother who did not go to college, but got a full scholarship to go to Wharton and had extremely high skills with stenography. I forget the exact words per minute, but when my mother explained it to me years ago I looked up statistics and my grandmother wasn't far off the human records. I don't think this was any sort of mistake. My grandfather was a computer programmer for the government and was heavily relied upon by his leech fellow government workers. My uncle is a doctor in Mensa and I believe some intelligence group above it. Almost my entire family is believes in some level of untruth in society and is politically dissident (aka far right). Even the lowest IQ people in my family such as my Filipino side greatly outlier the average Filipino and are above normal intelligence. My father was in the Army Security Agency. Almost everyone in my family was measured with high IQ throughout life and put into gifted programs and such. Most of my online friends who would be considered conspiracy theorists are also of high intelligence and have measured as such.

Whether you recognize it or not, you just validated my point.

No. You made no valid points yet.



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teamsilent13 said:

False. The far left has complete control over academia and the flow of information which has created many lies in our society.

Citation needed.

teamsilent13 said:

Almost my entire family is believes in some level of untruth in society and is politically dissident (aka far right). Even the lowest IQ people in my family such as my Filipino side greatly outlier the average Filipino and are above normal intelligence. My father was in the Army Security Agency. Almost everyone in my family was measured with high IQ throughout life and put into gifted programs and such. Most of my online friends who would be considered conspiracy theorists are also of high intelligence and have measured as such.

When it comes to people and their family, personal possessions or anything else that they might hold in high regard, there is always a preconceived bias that they are better than what other people might have, it's a part of human nature... And you are falling into that trap.

Conspiracy theorists tend to rely on logical fallacies, which are inherently incorrect, thus their intellectual fortitude does and can be questioned.

teamsilent13 said:

I am a conspiracy theorist of sorts and I have over 145 IQ.

Apparently everyone has a high IQ.
Albert Einstein was believed to have an IQ of around 160~ -145~ isn't far from that, would you place yourself within arms reach of Einstein's intelligence? I would have to take into question if anyone on this forum's intelligence approaches that to start with. - And most importantly do you have evidence for such a claim from a reputable source? (I.E. Not from a Facebook/mobile application.)

teamsilent13 said:

We have an entire fake news media which lies directly to its audience with the exact opposite of the truth. It's pretty much the opposite.

Indeed we do. And it comes from both left wing and right-wing sources. Alex Jones, Fox News, CNN, all of it. Fake.

But the real issue isn't the fake news... It's the people who are extremely gullible who believe everything they read, Facebook for instance is notorious for it with older demographic/lower social economic tiers with inferior education levels falling for allot of right wing/left wing propaganda.

The fact is... The truth is what can be supported by empirical evidence (Or appropriate citations), if you don't have that, well... Your claim/news/assertion can be discarded in it's entirety until such a time it can be substantiated.

Hiku said:

I think it is tied to the misconception that LGBT is a choice. (I'm trying my hardest to be attracted to Brad Pit right now, but it's not working...)
It can't be that the person was born that way. That doesn't compute with some people. So they find things to blame.

You don't choose your sexuality.
But you do choose whether to engage in the "act" so to speak. - I guess some individuals confuse the two.

Much like those who get confused between the differences of weather and climate change...



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

teamsilent13 said:
SpokenTruth said:

These tend to be mutually exclusive.

False. The far left has complete control over academia and the flow of information which has created many lies in our society. I've been tested multiple times in my life. I have family whom are either successful outright or obvious underachievers. Such as my cousin being a doctor at age 21 with a lot of academic success and a perfect SAT or my grandmother who did not go to college, but got a full scholarship to go to Wharton and had extremely high skills with stenography. I forget the exact words per minute, but when my mother explained it to me years ago I looked up statistics and my grandmother wasn't far off the human records. I don't think this was any sort of mistake. My grandfather was a computer programmer for the government and was heavily relied upon by his leech fellow government workers. My uncle is a doctor in Mensa and I believe some intelligence group above it. Almost my entire family is believes in some level of untruth in society and is politically dissident (aka far right). Even the lowest IQ people in my family such as my Filipino side greatly outlier the average Filipino and are above normal intelligence. My father was in the Army Security Agency. Almost everyone in my family was measured with high IQ throughout life and put into gifted programs and such. Most of my online friends who would be considered conspiracy theorists are also of high intelligence and have measured as such.

If you really are intelligent, you would recognize the argument from authority fallacy you're using.  It one of the more egregious instances I've seen.  If we test IQs and mine is higher, does that mean you're wrong?

Last edited by JWeinCom - on 22 August 2019

JWeinCom said:

If you really are intelligent, you would recognize the argument from authority fallacy you're using.  It one of the more egregious instances I've seen.  If we test IQs and mine is higher, does that mean you're wrong?

Not to mention intelligence is all relative anyway.
Even a 2 year old infant that recognizes colours and shapes is more intelligent than a goldfish. Or even some Adults.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

teamsilent13 said:
Hiku said:

Alex Jones' crowd are still harassing Sandy Hook parents for "faking their children's deaths", and talking about Pizzagate.
I think conspiracy theories primarily attract certain people.

Those who spend very little/no time researching stories they've read. And experience cognitive dissonance when presented with contradicting facts.

I've seen a lot of weird stories that sound suspect. Some here on these forums. And upon looking into them, often turn out to be inaccurate, because some key details were wrong/omitted, etc.

Best thing you can do is try to stay as informed as possible about subjects you take an interest in, that carry some importance, before voicing your opinion on them.
But unfortunately some people deliberately spread misinformation.

I mean you're wrong, but you believe what you want. We have an entire fake news media which lies directly to its audience with the exact opposite of the truth. It's pretty much the opposite. I am a conspiracy theorist of sorts and I have over 145 IQ.

While most of this post is just hilarious, I someone agree that the conspiracy theory crowd isn't just individuals who don't do their research.

Most of the individuals I have spoken to who have been involved in conspiracy theories have known quite a bit about the topics they are speaking on (the quality of that information though is questionable). The issue however, I think is two-fold:
1) A desire to disavow the mainstream
2) Heavy confirmation bias

This leads into a sort of positive feedback loop where the individual finds a piece of information which goes against the mainstream knowledge, then snowballing into more and more pieces of information, with the individual putting less and less effort into verifying each one that agrees with them and going to greater and greater lengths to justify disbelieving the pieces that disagree with them.

As such, conspiracy minded individuals often accept poor sources of information that validate their beliefs and refute strong sources of information that contradict them, because at the crux of this whole issue is the fact that what matters is not the truth. What matters is the conspiracy. At some point, the end becomes the means.

I think it was a different forum, but not too long ago I was discussing I believe the Kavanaugh confirmation with someone who was more than a little conspiracy minded. They then unloaded a conspiracy on me which stated that the accuser's father was not only tied to the CIA, but was also coordinating with Russia (as per Russian sources) to bring down Trump (or something along those lines). Needless to say, it seemed a little farfetched to me, so I looked into the individual who wrote the article (it was on some fringe website that looked like it was out of 1999). In doing so, I found an article by this individual who stated that their Russian sources had confirmed that there was a big conspiracy involving Pluto, where it was removed as a planet to hide the religious symbolism to keep people from realizing that it was soon going to crash into the Earth (I wish I still had that url. It was glorious).

I then pointed this out and laughed him out of the conversation.

What had happened is the conspiracy became the means of explanation here. It was no longer the end result of "skepticism". Because really, what skepticism was put into that information? None. It was something which fit into the conspiracy, so it was blindly accepted. And I think this is common in conspiracy minded individuals. They will do research and find information that no one else has even looked at, but will not apply their so called "skeptical" principles to that information as long as it fits the narrative.



sundin13 said:
teamsilent13 said:

I mean you're wrong, but you believe what you want. We have an entire fake news media which lies directly to its audience with the exact opposite of the truth. It's pretty much the opposite. I am a conspiracy theorist of sorts and I have over 145 IQ.

While most of this post is just hilarious, I someone agree that the conspiracy theory crowd isn't just individuals who don't do their research.

Most of the individuals I have spoken to who have been involved in conspiracy theories have known quite a bit about the topics they are speaking on (the quality of that information though is questionable). The issue however, I think is two-fold:
1) A desire to disavow the mainstream
2) Heavy confirmation bias

This leads into a sort of positive feedback loop where the individual finds a piece of information which goes against the mainstream knowledge, then snowballing into more and more pieces of information, with the individual putting less and less effort into verifying each one that agrees with them and going to greater and greater lengths to justify disbelieving the pieces that disagree with them.

As such, conspiracy minded individuals often accept poor sources of information that validate their beliefs and refute strong sources of information that contradict them, because at the crux of this whole issue is the fact that what matters is not the truth. What matters is the conspiracy. At some point, the end becomes the means.

I think it was a different forum, but not too long ago I was discussing I believe the Kavanaugh confirmation with someone who was more than a little conspiracy minded. They then unloaded a conspiracy on me which stated that the accuser's father was not only tied to the CIA, but was also coordinating with Russia (as per Russian sources) to bring down Trump (or something along those lines). Needless to say, it seemed a little farfetched to me, so I looked into the individual who wrote the article (it was on some fringe website that looked like it was out of 1999). In doing so, I found an article by this individual who stated that their Russian sources had confirmed that there was a big conspiracy involving Pluto, where it was removed as a planet to hide the religious symbolism to keep people from realizing that it was soon going to crash into the Earth (I wish I still had that url. It was glorious).

I then pointed this out and laughed him out of the conversation.

What had happened is the conspiracy became the means of explanation here. It was no longer the end result of "skepticism". Because really, what skepticism was put into that information? None. It was something which fit into the conspiracy, so it was blindly accepted. And I think this is common in conspiracy minded individuals. They will do research and find information that no one else has even looked at, but will not apply their so called "skeptical" principles to that information as long as it fits the narrative.

The problem is that if there is an actually conspiracy, then by definition, the evidence is being hidden.  If the evidence is hidden, you can't access it, or at least can't confirm it, so you can have no justification in believing it.

If there actually is verifiable evidence, then you can present it, and it's not actually a conspiracy theory.

I think it is by definition impossible to have sound reasoning for believing a conspiracy theory.  Even if it winds up being true (which has happened in the past), that doesn't mean there was good reason to believe it before the evidence came out.