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Scarlett Will Prioritize Frame Rate Over Graphics

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Tagged games:

Do you prefer 60/4k with reduced visuals or 30/4k with increased visuals?

YES! 30 40.00%
 
No. 5 6.67%
 
Depends on the game. 32 42.67%
 
I dont care. 8 10.67%
 
Total:75
Mr Puggsly said:

I disagree. I've connected OG Xbox to a 1080p TV with component, it didnt look as good as 720p 360 games on the same screen thanks largely to the resolution disparity. Wii games on Wii U's BC with HDMI, also not great looking.

Visuals are more than just resolution.
There are 720P OG Xbox games that will look worse than 480P Xbox 360 games.

Wii Games on Wii U look better than they did on Wii. I have a Wii U and have verified that in person... Which reinforces my prior argument about digital interfaces being the superior alternative.

Mr Puggsly said:

You're basically suggesting 480p and 720p look equally bad on higher res large screens. No, lets move on.

I have provided the necessary evidence for all my claims.
If you are having issue comprehending any of it (Which seems to be the case if this statement is any gauge), then feel free to get specific so I can provide the necessary information to try and expand the explanation of said aspect.

Mr Puggsly said:

I argue 720p looks okay even on a large 4K screen. The large pixels or blurriness of 480p can be much more jarring in comparison on the same screen. I really dont see the debate here. If they looked equally bad it seems odd Switch sometimes targets 720p over 480p.

Again. I refer you to the evidence I put forth prior. Stop ignoring it.

720P and 480P can either both look like shit, or both look great. In terms of pixel counts they aren't a massive leap from each other verses other resolution leaps.
Which is why many Switch games opt for 480P or less in handheld, they can get away with it and push out fidelity.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

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Pemalite said:
Mr Puggsly said:

I disagree. I've connected OG Xbox to a 1080p TV with component, it didnt look as good as 720p 360 games on the same screen thanks largely to the resolution disparity. Wii games on Wii U's BC with HDMI, also not great looking.

Visuals are more than just resolution.
There are 720P OG Xbox games that will look worse than 480P Xbox 360 games.

Wii Games on Wii U look better than they did on Wii. I have a Wii U and have verified that in person... Which reinforces my prior argument about digital interfaces being the superior alternative.

Mr Puggsly said:

You're basically suggesting 480p and 720p look equally bad on higher res large screens. No, lets move on.

I have provided the necessary evidence for all my claims.
If you are having issue comprehending any of it (Which seems to be the case if this statement is any gauge), then feel free to get specific so I can provide the necessary information to try and expand the explanation of said aspect.

Mr Puggsly said:

I argue 720p looks okay even on a large 4K screen. The large pixels or blurriness of 480p can be much more jarring in comparison on the same screen. I really dont see the debate here. If they looked equally bad it seems odd Switch sometimes targets 720p over 480p.

Again. I refer you to the evidence I put forth prior. Stop ignoring it.

720P and 480P can either both look like shit, or both look great. In terms of pixel counts they aren't a massive leap from each other verses other resolution leaps.
Which is why many Switch games opt for 480P or less in handheld, they can get away with it and push out fidelity.

I agree visuals are more than resolution. Resolution still matters, which why PS3600 atleast tried to stay above 600p. Actually, the X1 technically does support 480p. For some reason a 1080p TV I had would glitch when consoles were detecting the resolution and my X1 would default to 480p mode, a feature I didnt know it had. Spoiler alert, it was really fucking blurry. You could see the UI wasnt design to go that low, blurry.

The evidence youre giving is shit and I am moving on. Or it might also be we are having different arguments.

Hypothetically, lets say youre playing that hot new release Halo Reach for PC on a 4K monitor. I assure you 720p will be a much cleaner looking game than 480p. I argue Thats leap is more obvious than 720p vs 1080p or 4K.



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Mr Puggsly said:

The evidence youre giving is shit and I am moving on. Or it might also be we are having different arguments.

That's your opinion. It's certainly 1,000x better than the shit you have provided, which is absolutely nothing.

Mr Puggsly said:

Hypothetically, lets say youre playing that hot new release Halo Reach for PC on a 4K monitor. I assure you 720p will be a much cleaner looking game than 480p. I argue Thats leap is more obvious than 720p vs 1080p or 4K.

Again. Depends on distance you sit from your display, the size of your display and the quality of your display as to whether there will be a discernible difference between 480P and 720P.

Not sure why you aren't getting it.

Study this graph intimately:


Some night time reading material to get you educated on the topic: https://www.rgb.com/display-size-resolution-and-ideal-viewing-distance




--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Pemalite said:
Mr Puggsly said:

The evidence youre giving is shit and I am moving on. Or it might also be we are having different arguments.

That's your opinion. It's certainly 1,000x better than the shit you have provided, which is absolutely nothing.

Mr Puggsly said:

Hypothetically, lets say youre playing that hot new release Halo Reach for PC on a 4K monitor. I assure you 720p will be a much cleaner looking game than 480p. I argue Thats leap is more obvious than 720p vs 1080p or 4K.

Again. Depends on distance you sit from your display, the size of your display and the quality of your display as to whether there will be a discernible difference between 480P and 720P.

Not sure why you aren't getting it.

Study this graph intimately:


Some night time reading material to get you educated on the topic: https://www.rgb.com/display-size-resolution-and-ideal-viewing-distance


You know what, youre absolutely right. I get your point now.

All games should be 480p. If people dont like it, tough shit. Just back away from the TV. Its so obvious.

When people were complaing about X1's resolution disparity, the solution was obviously move your couch further back.

We didnt even need the X1X. They should just develop a Xbox branded tape measurer. That way people with large screen could figure out the correct distance for their screen and couch.



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Mr Puggsly said:
mikicezanne said:
Isn't performance optimization up to the developers and not the console itself?

It helps if MS gives them the specs to achieve 60 fps with relative ease.

I think its safe to assume more X1X and Pro games would offer 60 fps if the CPU wasn't so limited.

That's not exactly how that works.  Frame rate is a a bit of a trade off between what a machine is capable of and how much you throw at it (super simplified statement).

If you crank up the power, a developer would just crank up the effects, res, A.I, physics, etc...    Frame rate is a consciously targeted aspect of game development. It's not a feature a console just does. Can certain balances in specs help?  Yes, but that's going to be game dependent. You can't just make it apply to all game types, engines, etc...

Also, to add a little of what Permalite is referring to.  Pixel density per arc-minute resolution.  Combine that with higher bit digital channels and different display technologies and you can get scenarios where common wisdom on resolution flies right out the window.



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SpokenTruth said:
Mr Puggsly said:

It helps if MS gives them the specs to achieve 60 fps with relative ease.

I think its safe to assume more X1X and Pro games would offer 60 fps if the CPU wasn't so limited.

That's not exactly how that works.  Frame rate is a a bit of a trade off between what a machine is capable of and how much you throw at it (super simplified statement).

If you crank up the power, a developer would just crank up the effects, res, A.I, physics, etc...    Frame rate is a consciously targeted aspect of game development. It's not a feature a console just does. Can certain balances in specs help?  Yes, but that's going to be game dependent. You can't just make it apply to all game types, engines, etc...

Also, to add a little of what Permalite is referring to.  Pixel density per arc-minute resolution.  Combine that with higher bit digital channels and different display technologies and you can get scenarios where common wisdom on resolution flies right out the window.

They did crank up the power with X1X significantly and we got various examples of increased effects, resolution, textures and even more games with 60 fps due to less GPU bottleneck and increased CPU power.

Hypothetically, if the X1X had no CPU upgrade, then it would have less games with a 60 fps option. If the CPU power simply isn't there then attempts at 60 fps just won't happen as often.

If 9th gen consoles have massive increase to CPU power, like what's needed to run RDR2 or an open world heavy physicas experience like Just Cause at 60+ fps. Then they should be in a good position to make 60 fps more common even if its not at 4K. Maybe not in every single game, but certainly more common. I don't think anybody is arguing every experience absolutely needs to be a 60 fps experience. But it can be more common with appropriate specs for doing so even in current gen games.



Recently Completed
Doom 64
for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

Mr Puggsly said:
SpokenTruth said:

That's not exactly how that works.  Frame rate is a a bit of a trade off between what a machine is capable of and how much you throw at it (super simplified statement).

If you crank up the power, a developer would just crank up the effects, res, A.I, physics, etc...    Frame rate is a consciously targeted aspect of game development. It's not a feature a console just does. Can certain balances in specs help?  Yes, but that's going to be game dependent. You can't just make it apply to all game types, engines, etc...

Also, to add a little of what Permalite is referring to.  Pixel density per arc-minute resolution.  Combine that with higher bit digital channels and different display technologies and you can get scenarios where common wisdom on resolution flies right out the window.

They did crank up the power with X1X significantly and we got various examples of increased effects, resolution, textures and even more games with 60 fps due to less GPU bottleneck and increased CPU power.

Hypothetically, if the X1X had no CPU upgrade, then it would have less games with a 60 fps option. If the CPU power simply isn't there then attempts at 60 fps just won't happen as often.

If 9th gen consoles have massive increase to CPU power, like what's needed to run RDR2 or an open world heavy physicas experience like Just Cause at 60+ fps. Then they should be in a good position to make 60 fps more common even if its not at 4K. Maybe not in every single game, but certainly more common. I don't think anybody is arguing every experience absolutely needs to be a 60 fps experience. But it can be more common with appropriate specs for doing so even in current gen games.

Lol, Pugsly.  If you take any game build around Spec A and then tweak it to run it on a Spec A+ box, you'll get better performance.  No game is made exclusive to Xbox One X.  They are all designed for the base model with some that have been tweaked after the fact to take advantage of the X model. 



Massimus - "Trump already has democrat support."

SpokenTruth said:
Mr Puggsly said:

They did crank up the power with X1X significantly and we got various examples of increased effects, resolution, textures and even more games with 60 fps due to less GPU bottleneck and increased CPU power.

Hypothetically, if the X1X had no CPU upgrade, then it would have less games with a 60 fps option. If the CPU power simply isn't there then attempts at 60 fps just won't happen as often.

If 9th gen consoles have massive increase to CPU power, like what's needed to run RDR2 or an open world heavy physicas experience like Just Cause at 60+ fps. Then they should be in a good position to make 60 fps more common even if its not at 4K. Maybe not in every single game, but certainly more common. I don't think anybody is arguing every experience absolutely needs to be a 60 fps experience. But it can be more common with appropriate specs for doing so even in current gen games.

Lol, Pugsly.  If you take any game build around Spec A and then tweak it to run it on a Spec A+ box, you'll get better performance.  No game is made exclusive to Xbox One X.  They are all designed for the base model with some that have been tweaked after the fact to take advantage of the X model. 

Hmm... me thinks you're overestimating the capabilities of the "Spec A+ box." "LOL!"

X1X doesn't have enough CPU power to make all X1 content 60 fps. It just happens to have a significant CPU boost that makes 60 fps MORE feasible.

Its kinda like building a PC. 9th gen consoles need to have CPUs sufficient for 60 fps in demanding current and upcoming games. My guess is they will have about 10TF, so that should be enough for 60 fps in many games at about 1440p and higher.



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Mr Puggsly said:
SpokenTruth said:

Lol, Pugsly.  If you take any game build around Spec A and then tweak it to run it on a Spec A+ box, you'll get better performance.  No game is made exclusive to Xbox One X.  They are all designed for the base model with some that have been tweaked after the fact to take advantage of the X model. 

Hmm... me thinks you're overestimating the capabilities of the "Spec A+ box." "LOL!"

1). X1X doesn't have enough CPU power to make all X1 content 60 fps. 2). It just happens to have a significant CPU boost that makes 60 fps MORE feasible.

Its kinda like building a PC. 9th gen consoles need to have CPUs sufficient for 60 fps in demanding current and upcoming games. 3). My guess is they will have about 10TF, so that should be enough for 60 fps in many games at about 1440p and higher.

1). That's NOT what I said at all.

2). This IS what I said.

3). You still don't understand.

Think of a seesaw.  Resolution, physics, A.I., effects, etc...on one side and frame rate on the other.  10 TF is just a bigger seesaw. 



Massimus - "Trump already has democrat support."

SpokenTruth said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Hmm... me thinks you're overestimating the capabilities of the "Spec A+ box." "LOL!"

1). X1X doesn't have enough CPU power to make all X1 content 60 fps. 2). It just happens to have a significant CPU boost that makes 60 fps MORE feasible.

Its kinda like building a PC. 9th gen consoles need to have CPUs sufficient for 60 fps in demanding current and upcoming games. 3). My guess is they will have about 10TF, so that should be enough for 60 fps in many games at about 1440p and higher.

1). That's NOT what I said at all.

2). This IS what I said.

3). You still don't understand.

Think of a seesaw.  Resolution, physics, A.I., effects, etc...on one side and frame rate on the other.  10 TF is just a bigger seesaw. 

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and just say your wording was confusing.

Well in the 8th gen resolution and effects saw great improvements. Not really feeling like physics or AI saw a massive boost, not to the same extent.

I get your point though, you give developers more power and they keep trying to push things forward. But in the average game, its mostly visuals.



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