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Scarlett Will Prioritize Frame Rate Over Graphics

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Tagged games:

Do you prefer 60/4k with reduced visuals or 30/4k with increased visuals?

YES! 30 40.00%
 
No. 5 6.67%
 
Depends on the game. 32 42.67%
 
I dont care. 8 10.67%
 
Total:75
Pemalite said:
Mr Puggsly said:

If you're playing a 480p game, it'll look okay on a 480p CRT screen. It can still look a bit muddy depending on the input from my experience, but even HD games can be acceptable as well.

I have provided evidence that completely contradicts this statement.
Try again.

Mr Puggsly said:

However, 480p will look crappy on 768p CRT monitor. Its simply a low resolution (for 3D games) so it looks poor on pretty much any screen 720p or higher. To the contrary, 720p can look good even on 4K displays especially with a good anti aliasing solution, maybe temporal effects, etc.

I have provided evidence that completely contradicts this statement.
Try again.

Mr Puggsly said:

I'm saying 720p is about the resolution you need for tiny objects to be fairly crisp and small text to be easily readable. You can also apply good AA effects to clean up the noise. With 480p though, its just too low for many games on an average home display.

I have provided evidence that completely contradicts this statement.
Try again.

Mr Puggsly said:

Halo Wars probably seemed "excessively" large because the base was just a cluster of buildings. When you zoom out it looks at par with other RTS games.

It's not just the "buildings" that were large.
The units and doodads were as well.

It actually had to be in order to look palatable on a display you sit a distance from and function optimally with a slow console controller.

Even zoomed out... It's still much larger than say... Total Annihilation units zoomed out on PC.

Mr Puggsly said:

The RTS games on 5th gen consoles were only 240p and generally cartoonish. They were generally bright colorful to distinguish objects.

And?

Mr Puggsly said:

I've played 720p games on a large 4K screen and could tell you it looked fine. Not ideal, not nearly as muddy or pixelated like 480p would be either. That's not something you can really disagree with, this is objective. You speak as if 480p and 720p look about equal on large 4K displays. Obviously there is a huge difference.

The scaling will always make a 720P image on a 4k screen non-optimal unless you have a high quality scaler.
Otherwise 1080P content being a perfect division of 3840x2160 scales far better.

Yes there is a difference between 480P and 720P. That isn't the argument I have put forth, please go back and re-read my posts instead of ignoring them and the evidence presented.

The point I am trying to convey is that the difference between 480P and 720P isn't as significant as other resolution gaps.

DonFerrari said:

Thanks for the input.

On the 1440p rendering on console, they can opt to "save" the entry level tvs with upscalers on the console itself (like MS and I think Sony also used on X1X and PS4Pro). Sure they would rather have 4k rendering, but we all know that by gen end with other effects improving it will have to take a hit on resolution so an upscaler would be helpful.

I think in general developers are moving away from plain-jane "upscaling" and opting towards reconstruction techniques which offer higher levels of fidelity.

By default all the 8th and 9th consoles have a high quality upscaler built into the AMD GPU anyway.


Yes I liked the reconstruction techniques. And I know TVs have their own upscalers, but usually the ones put on PS4Pro and X1X and even X1S were better than the ones in most TVs.

So considering that in the final years of consoles the type of games they put may be to taxing and even reconstruction wouldn't be enough if possible keeping the upscaler to ensure the signal out is always 4k (or even 8k if they decide to make it compatible with next wave of TVs, or could wait for the mid gen refresh) is just playing safe.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

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Pemalite said:
Mr Puggsly said:

If you're playing a 480p game, it'll look okay on a 480p CRT screen. It can still look a bit muddy depending on the input from my experience, but even HD games can be acceptable as well.

I have provided evidence that completely contradicts this statement.
Try again.

Mr Puggsly said:

However, 480p will look crappy on 768p CRT monitor. Its simply a low resolution (for 3D games) so it looks poor on pretty much any screen 720p or higher. To the contrary, 720p can look good even on 4K displays especially with a good anti aliasing solution, maybe temporal effects, etc.

I have provided evidence that completely contradicts this statement.
Try again.

Mr Puggsly said:

I'm saying 720p is about the resolution you need for tiny objects to be fairly crisp and small text to be easily readable. You can also apply good AA effects to clean up the noise. With 480p though, its just too low for many games on an average home display.

I have provided evidence that completely contradicts this statement.
Try again.

Mr Puggsly said:

Halo Wars probably seemed "excessively" large because the base was just a cluster of buildings. When you zoom out it looks at par with other RTS games.

It's not just the "buildings" that were large.
The units and doodads were as well.

It actually had to be in order to look palatable on a display you sit a distance from and function optimally with a slow console controller.

Even zoomed out... It's still much larger than say... Total Annihilation units zoomed out on PC.

Mr Puggsly said:

The RTS games on 5th gen consoles were only 240p and generally cartoonish. They were generally bright colorful to distinguish objects.

And?

Mr Puggsly said:

I've played 720p games on a large 4K screen and could tell you it looked fine. Not ideal, not nearly as muddy or pixelated like 480p would be either. That's not something you can really disagree with, this is objective. You speak as if 480p and 720p look about equal on large 4K displays. Obviously there is a huge difference.

The scaling will always make a 720P image on a 4k screen non-optimal unless you have a high quality scaler.
Otherwise 1080P content being a perfect division of 3840x2160 scales far better.

Yes there is a difference between 480P and 720P. That isn't the argument I have put forth, please go back and re-read my posts instead of ignoring them and the evidence presented.

The point I am trying to convey is that the difference between 480P and 720P isn't as significant as other resolution gaps.

Sorry, not a debate. I used S-video and component to make 6th gen content sharper on 480p TV. So your evidence is wrong.

Playing 3D games at 480p on 768p monitor looked bad. Again, not a debate.

Try using a 480p display as a monitor. You wont be able to read much of the small text. Not a debate.

No, the units in Halo Wars are not unusually large compraed to many RTS.  If anything, some games zoom out further.

And? I'm explaining how Starcraft and other RTS games worked on 5th gen consoles. They often looked very different from the PC versions due spec and resolution disparity. Hence, their visuals had significant changes.

From a pixel count perspective, 480p to 720p is not as big as 1080p to 4K. I said early 480p to 720p was a big jump based on what we can easily perceive with our eyes. And I dont just mean experts like yourself.

The difference between 1080p and 4K mostly matters when you're playing on a massive screen. While the disparity of 480p and 720p is more obvious on a smaller screens and big.



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DonFerrari said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Different effects, attention to detail in different aspects, much smoother performance and higher resolution doesn't hurt either.

These are also games varying in scale. Some have large open areas, some are more linear. God of War and Gears 5 being the most linear.

Using different techniques doesn't make they look better.

GoW is plenty open, you can go to any area in the game without having a loading, the full game is a single setpiece.

None of the games you listed look better on Xbox than the games I listed for PS4Pro. If you want to pick games on the best PC HW then sure you can find some.

You really don't get it. If the CPU wasn't the bottleneck and smooth 60fps happen for that game then you are using roughly twice the power on the GPU to have that graphic.

So doesn't matter where you look from reducing fps from 60 to 30 increase what is possible in graphical achievement, it is that simple.

I'm suggesting some of the 60 fps games use techniques that do look better than 30 fps games.

God of War has open areas and areas you explore slowly. If you fast travel, there is will be a load time.

I argue the 60 fps games I mentioned are in the ballpark or in some ways better visually than the Pro games you mentioned. They do similar visual fideltity on X1X above 1440p with 60 fps. If those 60 fps games reduced resolution further, they could improve effects and draw distance as well.

What is possible in graphical achievment also is dependent on resolution, even at 30 fps. For example, the Pro games you mentioned are 1440p because thats about the best they could do with thosee graphics.

If CPU bottleneck wasnt an issue, they could potentially maintain those visuals at a lower resolution with 60 fps.

Last edited by Mr Puggsly - on 08 December 2019

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Mr Puggsly said:

Sorry, not a debate. I used S-video and component to make 6th gen content sharper on 480p TV. So your evidence is wrong.

Then provide the damn evidence! Do you not understand what evidence is? And why it gets provided? If you are going to ignore someone elses evidence and keep asserting your position as the right one, then you don't actually have an argument, only a baseless opinion... Honestly think you are trolling at this point?

Not saying S-Video and Component doesn't make the image better. It's just not going to have the clarity of a full digital signal however.

Mr Puggsly said:

Playing 3D games at 480p on 768p monitor looked bad. Again, not a debate.

Playing 3D games at 768P on a 1080P monitor looked bad.

Mr Puggsly said:

No, the units in Halo Wars are not unusually large compraed to many RTS.  If anything, some games zoom out further.

They are large.
Halo Wars 2.

Ashes of the Singularity.

Mr Puggsly said:

And? I'm explaining how Starcraft and other RTS games worked on 5th gen consoles. They often looked very different from the PC versions due spec and resolution disparity. Hence, their visuals had significant changes.

Consoles of the era tend to be underpowered verses the PC alternative, that didn't just extend to RTS games, but FPS, RPG, the lot.
Take Final Fantasy 7/8 on PC, you could do 800x600... In general all 5th gen console games were low-res.

So again... What's your point?

Mr Puggsly said:

From a pixel count perspective, 480p to 720p is not as big as 1080p to 4K. I said early 480p to 720p was a big jump based on what we can easily perceive with our eyes. And I dont just mean experts like yourself.

What you perceive with your eyes and the effect of resolution is entirely down to your own eye capabilities, the distance you sit from the display and how large said display was.

The difference between 480P and 720P can be non existent when not accounting for the above factors... Where as the distance between 720P and 1440P can be catastrophically massive.

This image will essentially undermine your entire argument and proves what I am saying.

Mr Puggsly said:

The difference between 1080p and 4K mostly matters when you're playing on a massive screen. While the disparity of 480p and 720p is more obvious on a smaller screens and big.

No, no and no.
It's not just about display size. See above.

And the disparity between 480P and 720P actually increases the larger the display is and the closer you sit to said display. - You are stretching pixels so you are able to discern the discrepancies to a far larger degree.

Last edited by Pemalite - on 08 December 2019

--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Mr Puggsly said:
DonFerrari said:

Using different techniques doesn't make they look better.

GoW is plenty open, you can go to any area in the game without having a loading, the full game is a single setpiece.

None of the games you listed look better on Xbox than the games I listed for PS4Pro. If you want to pick games on the best PC HW then sure you can find some.

You really don't get it. If the CPU wasn't the bottleneck and smooth 60fps happen for that game then you are using roughly twice the power on the GPU to have that graphic.

So doesn't matter where you look from reducing fps from 60 to 30 increase what is possible in graphical achievement, it is that simple.

I'm suggesting some of the 60 fps games use techniques that do look better than 30 fps games.

God of War has open areas and areas you explore slowly. If you fast travel, there is will be a load time.

I argue the 60 fps games I mentioned are in the ballpark or in some ways better visually than the Pro games you mentioned. They do similar visual fideltity on X1X above 1440p with 60 fps. If those 60 fps games reduced resolution further, they could improve effects and draw distance as well.

What is possible in graphical achievment also is dependent on resolution, even at 30 fps. For example, the Pro games you mentioned are 1440p because thats about the best they could do with thosee graphics.

If CPU bottleneck wasnt an issue, they could potentially maintain those visuals at a lower resolution with 60 fps.

No, you were stating that some games that were running 60fps on Xbox looked better than SM, GoW, etc. That is just preposterous.

Yes any game that you use fast travel will have some load, but since I don't think you played GoW you don't even know what or how that was done. I'll give you a hint, it isn't what you are imagining. The game was in fact open world, linear narrative (that you could deviate as much as you want just as about any open world game), single panel and single set piece.

I'll have to tell you again, if CPU wasn't a bottleneck and the game is pushed for 60fps then GPU becomes the bottleneck and they need to reduce the IQ because then GPU will have half the time to render that. Is that really difficult for you to accept?

Show one open world game on X1X running at 60fps looking better than Gow, HZD or SM. Techniques are just techniques, it need to be a whole looking better.

But considering your discussion with Pema you are going to just use your opinion and experience as evidence. Hint again, yourself isn't evidence. Watch the video he posted about CRT or read and understand what he is explaining to you. Because it is just plainly impossible to say that on the right conditions the jump from 480p to 720p is much more noticeable than 720p to 4k. The only way you can try to push that narrative is on one situation you sit 2' from a 32" screen but for the second one you sit 10' away from a 42" screen, and done with a low powered HW.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Around the Network
Pemalite said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Sorry, not a debate. I used S-video and component to make 6th gen content sharper on 480p TV. So your evidence is wrong.

Then provide the damn evidence! Do you not understand what evidence is? And why it gets provided? If you are going to ignore someone elses evidence and keep asserting your position as the right one, then you don't actually have an argument, only a baseless opinion... Honestly think you are trolling at this point?

Not saying S-Video and Component doesn't make the image better. It's just not going to have the clarity of a full digital signal however.

Mr Puggsly said:

Playing 3D games at 480p on 768p monitor looked bad. Again, not a debate.

Playing 3D games at 768P on a 1080P monitor looked bad.

Mr Puggsly said:

No, the units in Halo Wars are not unusually large compraed to many RTS.  If anything, some games zoom out further.

They are large.
Halo Wars 2.

Ashes of the Singularity.

Mr Puggsly said:

And? I'm explaining how Starcraft and other RTS games worked on 5th gen consoles. They often looked very different from the PC versions due spec and resolution disparity. Hence, their visuals had significant changes.

Consoles of the era tend to be underpowered verses the PC alternative, that didn't just extend to RTS games, but FPS, RPG, the lot.
Take Final Fantasy 7/8 on PC, you could do 800x600... In general all 5th gen console games were low-res.

So again... What's your point?

Mr Puggsly said:

From a pixel count perspective, 480p to 720p is not as big as 1080p to 4K. I said early 480p to 720p was a big jump based on what we can easily perceive with our eyes. And I dont just mean experts like yourself.

What you perceive with your eyes and the effect of resolution is entirely down to your own eye capabilities, the distance you sit from the display and how large said display was.

The difference between 480P and 720P can be non existent when not accounting for the above factors... Where as the distance between 720P and 1440P can be catastrophically massive.

This image will essentially undermine your entire argument and proves what I am saying.

Mr Puggsly said:

The difference between 1080p and 4K mostly matters when you're playing on a massive screen. While the disparity of 480p and 720p is more obvious on a smaller screens and big.

No, no and no.
It's not just about display size. See above.

And the disparity between 480P and 720P actually increases the larger the display is and the closer you sit to said display. - You are stretching pixels so you are able to discern the discrepancies to a far larger degree.

"Not saying S-Video and Component doesn't make the image better." This was my point. Basic RCA look muddy compared to using those. I tried to opt for those when I could.

768p on 1080p screen doesent look nearly as bad as 480p. Its a world lf difference. I'm really just obvious truths.

Are you comparing Halo Wars to Ashes of Singularity? That's funny. You're being silly. Ashes is not average for the genre, certainly not in 7th gen. Also, Ashes is intended to be a larger scale PC exclusive.

I'm saying to the average person, the leap from 480p to 720p was an obvious improvment. Seeing the disparity of 720p can be a little more difficult especially with a good AA solution. But again not everybody is an expert like yourself.

I dont think we really need to drag this on. I guess your point is 480p looks great... on 480p screens. I think its a fine resolution for many games to be playable on, but 720p is the sweet spot for almost all games. Especially when you consider low res games tend to need bigger UIs that can take much of the screen.



Recently Completed
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for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

DonFerrari said:
Mr Puggsly said:

I'm suggesting some of the 60 fps games use techniques that do look better than 30 fps games.

God of War has open areas and areas you explore slowly. If you fast travel, there is will be a load time.

I argue the 60 fps games I mentioned are in the ballpark or in some ways better visually than the Pro games you mentioned. They do similar visual fideltity on X1X above 1440p with 60 fps. If those 60 fps games reduced resolution further, they could improve effects and draw distance as well.

What is possible in graphical achievment also is dependent on resolution, even at 30 fps. For example, the Pro games you mentioned are 1440p because thats about the best they could do with thosee graphics.

If CPU bottleneck wasnt an issue, they could potentially maintain those visuals at a lower resolution with 60 fps.

No, you were stating that some games that were running 60fps on Xbox looked better than SM, GoW, etc. That is just preposterous.

Yes any game that you use fast travel will have some load, but since I don't think you played GoW you don't even know what or how that was done. I'll give you a hint, it isn't what you are imagining. The game was in fact open world, linear narrative (that you could deviate as much as you want just as about any open world game), single panel and single set piece.

I'll have to tell you again, if CPU wasn't a bottleneck and the game is pushed for 60fps then GPU becomes the bottleneck and they need to reduce the IQ because then GPU will have half the time to render that. Is that really difficult for you to accept?

Show one open world game on X1X running at 60fps looking better than Gow, HZD or SM. Techniques are just techniques, it need to be a whole looking better.

But considering your discussion with Pema you are going to just use your opinion and experience as evidence. Hint again, yourself isn't evidence. Watch the video he posted about CRT or read and understand what he is explaining to you. Because it is just plainly impossible to say that on the right conditions the jump from 480p to 720p is much more noticeable than 720p to 4k. The only way you can try to push that narrative is on one situation you sit 2' from a 32" screen but for the second one you sit 10' away from a 42" screen, and done with a low powered HW.

Look, I'm really bored of you and only read a sentence.

My advice is play some PC games and see what happens to the frame rate by adjusting JUST the resolution. That alone can be the difference of 30 fps to 60 fps.

That's my point in a nutshell.



Recently Completed
Doom 64
for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

An example of how frame rate, resolution and effects impacts the overall experience is Overwatch

The biggest divide is between Switch and all other console versions because it has half the Frame rate.

If it ran at 60fps, the loss in visual quality would be less of a factor.

Last edited by Technarchy - on 09 December 2019

Mr Puggsly said:

"Not saying S-Video and Component doesn't make the image better." This was my point. Basic RCA look muddy compared to using those. I tried to opt for those when I could.

And my point was... That a digital interface like DVI/HDMI/Display port tend to provide a better experience than all of those.

Mr Puggsly said:

768p on 1080p screen doesent look nearly as bad as 480p. Its a world lf difference. I'm really just obvious truths.

The point I am trying to convey, is that 480P is just as likely to look just as bad as 720P on any larger, higher resolution display that you sit closer to.
Where-as on a smaller, display that you sit further from, the difference between 480P and 720P is absolutely fuck all.

Again, all about panel size, distance you sit form the panel and the technology the panel employs. (Resolution etc'.)

Mr Puggsly said:

Are you comparing Halo Wars to Ashes of Singularity? That's funny. You're being silly. Ashes is not average for the genre, certainly not in 7th gen. Also, Ashes is intended to be a larger scale PC exclusive.

That was my point that you decided to argue against? JFC.

Mr Puggsly said:

I'm saying to the average person, the leap from 480p to 720p was an obvious improvment. Seeing the disparity of 720p can be a little more difficult especially with a good AA solution. But again not everybody is an expert like yourself.

But not as large of an improvement as other resolution jumps when you account for all the factors.

Mr Puggsly said:

I dont think we really need to drag this on. I guess your point is 480p looks great... on 480p screens. I think its a fine resolution for many games to be playable on, but 720p is the sweet spot for almost all games. Especially when you consider low res games tend to need bigger UIs that can take much of the screen.

No. 480P doesn't always look great on 480P screens. It really depends on all those other factors I listed prior.

My original argument was that 480P and 720P in 16:9 aspect ratios aren't leagues apart. They are both low resolution, but whether they are acceptable depends on the display technology, resolution, display size and the distance you sit from the display.
That chart I provided earlier reinforces that.

Low-res games had big UI's because the UI's were rendered at the same resolution as the game.

This is 2019. UI's in games are rendered independently of the games internal rendered resolution, which makes sense considering how many games employ a dynamic resolution from 720P to 4k these days. - Otherwise we would notice the UI getting extremely jaggy and low resolution when the games resolution drops.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Pemalite said:
Mr Puggsly said:

"Not saying S-Video and Component doesn't make the image better." This was my point. Basic RCA look muddy compared to using those. I tried to opt for those when I could.

And my point was... That a digital interface like DVI/HDMI/Display port tend to provide a better experience than all of those.

Mr Puggsly said:

768p on 1080p screen doesent look nearly as bad as 480p. Its a world lf difference. I'm really just obvious truths.

The point I am trying to convey, is that 480P is just as likely to look just as bad as 720P on any larger, higher resolution display that you sit closer to.
Where-as on a smaller, display that you sit further from, the difference between 480P and 720P is absolutely fuck all.

Again, all about panel size, distance you sit form the panel and the technology the panel employs. (Resolution etc'.)

Mr Puggsly said:

Are you comparing Halo Wars to Ashes of Singularity? That's funny. You're being silly. Ashes is not average for the genre, certainly not in 7th gen. Also, Ashes is intended to be a larger scale PC exclusive.

That was my point that you decided to argue against? JFC.

Mr Puggsly said:

I'm saying to the average person, the leap from 480p to 720p was an obvious improvment. Seeing the disparity of 720p can be a little more difficult especially with a good AA solution. But again not everybody is an expert like yourself.

But not as large of an improvement as other resolution jumps when you account for all the factors.

Mr Puggsly said:

I dont think we really need to drag this on. I guess your point is 480p looks great... on 480p screens. I think its a fine resolution for many games to be playable on, but 720p is the sweet spot for almost all games. Especially when you consider low res games tend to need bigger UIs that can take much of the screen.

No. 480P doesn't always look great on 480P screens. It really depends on all those other factors I listed prior.

My original argument was that 480P and 720P in 16:9 aspect ratios aren't leagues apart. They are both low resolution, but whether they are acceptable depends on the display technology, resolution, display size and the distance you sit from the display.
That chart I provided earlier reinforces that.

Low-res games had big UI's because the UI's were rendered at the same resolution as the game.

This is 2019. UI's in games are rendered independently of the games internal rendered resolution, which makes sense considering how many games employ a dynamic resolution from 720P to 4k these days. - Otherwise we would notice the UI getting extremely jaggy and low resolution when the games resolution drops.

Agreed, there is better than s-video and component. But anything else on a 480p CRT TV was less common.

I disagree. I've connected OG Xbox to a 1080p TV with component, it didnt look as good as 720p 360 games on the same screen thanks largely to the resolution disparity. Wii games on Wii U's BC with HDMI, also not great looking.

You're basically suggesting 480p and 720p look equally bad on higher res large screens. No, lets move on.

I argue 720p looks okay even on a large 4K screen. The large pixels or blurriness of 480p can be much more jarring in comparison on the same screen. I really dont see the debate here. If they looked equally bad it seems odd Switch sometimes targets 720p over 480p.



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