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House minority leader trying to blame video games for mass shootings. Update: Walmart pulls violent video game ads for 2 weeks

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I like nukes.... Why can't I buy one? Where is my freedom? Nukes don't kill people people kill people...

Do you see how ridiculous this is?



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Chrkeller said:

I'm bailing out as well. God as my witness I would rather argue with a flat earther than a gun lunatic. The former is more rational.

I wouldn't call those flat earthers "rational" because that they certainly are not but the way they totally beat gun fanatics is in the fact that at least flat earthers are not dangerous, they are simply very ignorant which is bad but nowhere near as bad, evil or dangerous as gun fanatics can be, I think we can agree on that.



.

I'm sleepy, time for a nappy!

Pemalite said: 

SIP

Okay, so a heads up, I was a mechanic who learnt, built, maintained and managed cars for a long time. So my knowledge in cars is what I consider decent. 

You say ground clearance is to save lives.. well I disagree with it especially since it doesn't explain the enforced rules of many other car mods etc. I learnt this the hard way when I was 21, I lowered my car professionally to the lowest limit Australia rules allowed, I was fined and was asked to raise my car because of my extractors hanged slightly lower than the chassis which made my entire car illegal to drive.. $800 later I had no choice. Was it a safety issue? My car was tested and was able to actually handle better than the standard cars off the production line and I never scrapped underneath. So more handling in Australia's terms is consider unsafe.. that makes no sense to me.

Also doesn't explain why Neon lights are considered a safety issue, Tinting your windows too dark is a safety issue, having a loud exhaust pipe being a safety issue. I can name plenty of enforced rules Australia does that has no bearing on safety. Also If a licensed driver cannot tell the difference between Emergency lights to Neon lights under cars than maybe they shouldn't have a license and use our roads. We are not talking about replacing our brake light colours to green. They are pointless ground lights that only add to your visibility to others. So more visibility and handling is bad.. that's Australia's logic.. oh wait, its to fine innocent people.

So do you think any of the mentioned above is to save lives or to control people? I can tell you its all about controlling people.

I understand you deal with car wrecks but blame the drivers not the cars. Its the exact same logic you are using on blaming guns instead of the killers. Both Cars and Guns can be used as weapons and cars are much more dangerous since they are tons of metal that can also take any idiot on the road to kill people.

Sooooo you say video games are not to blame in Australia because we don't have shootings.. so why the heck do we still ban and heavily sensor video games in Australia? Why cant I buy Hatred on Steam? We don't have Guns, but we still blame games for peoples actions. Give the government an inch and they take a mile. That point is exactly what happens.

Lets look at Russia, a country who enforced gun laws to avoid more killings.

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https://www.usacarry.com/guns-russia/

Strict Gun Laws and Less Guns But Higher Murder Rate
While Russia has far fewer guns in circulation than the U.S. and strict gun laws, Russia has a much higher murder rate, according to Russia Today. Russian police also regularly seize guns from the public and melt them down, like recently in the Rostov-On-Don region, according to the website.

Approximately how many non-military guns are registered in Russia? Are There many un-registered guns there? Are most Russian crimes committed with unregistered guns?
According to the same report, the Russian Federation holds approximately twelve million unregistered guns illegally. Russia requires gun owners to register all guns. Police investigated about 26,500 crimes related to the illegal circulation of weapons, at that time.
Unregistered weapons or weapons acquired by a person who used it for criminal purposes make up the majority of the weapons used in crimes according to various reports. While Russia maintains relatively restrictive gun control legislation and strict procedures regulating the purchase and storage of firearms by private individuals, there is a huge black market in Russia for weapons. Most weapons used by criminals are stolen military or police guns, guns sold by law enforcement personnel who seized illegal weapons from criminals and did not register the confiscation of those firearms, or firearms made from modified non-lethal guns, according to a legalization of weapons article on the Russian NewsRU website.

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Now after reading all that, my point is that America has a culture issue not a gun issue. Because as Russia has been trying to change for the better, the criminals still get the guns.. and don't tell me the USA doesn't have a black market scene either. Its probably even worse than Russia.

You keep comparing Australia to America. Just because Australia did it and it worked doesn't mean it will work in the US. When Guns were allowed in Australia, we had a very strong Western culture, that changed over the years, that's what really stopped the shootings, not removing guns. Also AUS doesn't have the same issues as the US as they have a huge black market scene, Gangs and the crime is much more different.

End of the Day, if we don't change the culture than these crimes will continue to happen regardless if you remove things from the public. The blame game is easy when you don't like something but reality is its not the Gun that kills people, its the people that kill people.

Last edited by Azzanation - on 13 August 2019

CrazyGamer2017 said:
Chrkeller said:

I'm bailing out as well. God as my witness I would rather argue with a flat earther than a gun lunatic. The former is more rational.

I wouldn't call those flat earthers "rational" because that they certainly are not but the way they totally beat gun fanatics is in the fact that at least flat earthers are not dangerous, they are simply very ignorant which is bad but nowhere near as bad, evil or dangerous as gun fanatics can be, I think we can agree on that.

Rational in the sense, they see the horizon and it is flat.  And they don't understand advanced mathematics and physics.  Gun lunatics are flat out liars.  There is a difference between ignorantly mistaken versus being a bald faced liar.  I would rather deal with the former.  I have no use for the latter.



tripenfall said:
I like nukes.... Why can't I buy one? Where is my freedom? Nukes don't kill people people kill people...

Do you see how ridiculous this is?

That is a super extreme case, and completely ridiculous.  

With that said, I don't think I mind private nukes.  



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Azzanation said:

You say ground clearance is to save lives.. well I disagree with it especially since it doesn't explain the enforced rules of many other car mods etc. I learnt this the hard way when I was 21, I lowered my car professionally to the lowest limit Australia rules allowed, I was fined and was asked to raise my car because of my extractors hanged slightly lower than the chassis which made my entire car illegal to drive.. $800 later I had no choice. Was it a safety issue? My car was tested and was able to actually handle better than the standard cars off the production line and I never scrapped underneath. So more handling in Australia's terms is consider unsafe.. that makes no sense to me.

Lowering a vehicle does change the center of gravity which results in better handling. - Not disputing that, it's just common basic physics.

But you are looking at it from a more selfish perspective rather than when said lowered vehicle has a collision with another.

Azzanation said:

Also doesn't explain why Neon lights are considered a safety issue, Tinting your windows too dark is a safety issue, having a loud exhaust pipe being a safety issue. I can name plenty of enforced rules Australia does that has no bearing on safety. Also If a licensed driver cannot tell the difference between Emergency lights to Neon lights under cars than maybe they shouldn't have a license and use our roads. We are not talking about replacing our brake light colours to green. They are pointless ground lights that only add to your visibility to others. So more visibility and handling is bad.. that's Australia's logic.. oh wait, its to fine innocent people.

Neon lights being a safety issue I have already touched upon. So I won't repeat myself there... Go back and re-read my prior post/posts.
People were having red and blue neon lights flashing and confusing road drivers.

Tinting your windows too dark results in less visibility at night... But that's just common sense and most certainly a safety issue.

Loud exhaust isn't a safety issue per-say, it just adds to noise pollution.

Azzanation said:

So do you think any of the mentioned above is to save lives or to control people? I can tell you its all about controlling people.

Nah. People ruined a good thing. - These laws don't exist in a vacuum, they only started to exist because people were being moronic and abusing various aspects. (I.E. Neon Lights.)

Azzanation said:

I understand you deal with car wrecks but blame the drivers not the cars. Its the exact same logic you are using on blaming guns instead of the killers. Both Cars and Guns can be used as weapons and cars are much more dangerous since they are tons of metal that can also take any idiot on the road to kill people.

I blame both the drivers and cars.

Just like I blame gun related massacres on the guns and the individuals pulling the trigger.

Azzanation said:

Sooooo you say video games are not to blame in Australia because we don't have shootings.. so why the heck do we still ban and heavily sensor video games in Australia? Why cant I buy Hatred on Steam? We don't have Guns, but we still blame games for peoples actions. Give the government an inch and they take a mile. That point is exactly what happens.

Has Censorship even been an issue since we revised the ratings?

But maybe you should have looked into the issue of "Hatred" on Steam. - It wasn't blocked because of the Australian Government or our rating system, it was blocked because the developer self-imposed the restriction.

https://www.kotaku.com.au/2015/06/hatred-is-now-region-locked-in-australia/

Azzanation said:
<SNIP>

Now after reading all that, my point is that America has a culture issue not a gun issue. Because as Russia has been trying to change for the better, the criminals still get the guns.. and don't tell me the USA doesn't have a black market scene either. Its probably even worse than Russia.

I would argue that America has a gun culture issue and a gun issue.

Azzanation said:

You keep comparing Australia to America. Just because Australia did it and it worked doesn't mean it will work in the US. When Guns were allowed in Australia, we had a very strong Western culture, that changed over the years, that's what really stopped the shootings, not removing guns. Also AUS doesn't have the same issues as the US as they have a huge black market scene, Gangs and the crime is much more different.

End of the Day, if we don't change the culture than these crimes will continue to happen regardless if you remove things from the public. The blame game is easy when you don't like something but reality is its not the Gun that kills people, its the people that kill people.

It's worked for other nations other than Australia, it works more often than it doesn't.
I haven't actually looked into the extensiveness of Russia's gun legislation, but maybe there is room for improvement?

The US having a black market is something they can work on.



At the end of the day, as gun ownership in the US has increased, violent crime has decreased. So, there's just no good case to be made for reigning in gun ownership, even if you take out the basic human rights issue that comes with gun control. It's a fact that guns save lives, on the whole.



VAMatt said:
At the end of the day, as gun ownership in the US has increased, violent crime has decreased.

Has it though?
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2016/crime-in-the-u.s.-2016/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-4.xls

Seems to have jumped significantly in 2016 when Donal Trump was elected which is the latest data point available.

Mass Shooting deaths are on the increase.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_shootings_in_the_United_States
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States




Gun Suicide rates (Which tend to have a higher success rate than other methods) are some of the highest in the world too and increasing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States#Suicides
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/07/us/deaths-drugs-suicide-record.html

I know the USA likes to be the best at everything...



I'm having trouble posting links here from my phone right now, I'll see if I can do so later.  But, it is a fact that the gun murder rate peaked in 1994. Firearm ownership has been a massive upward trend since the mid-90s. The gun murder rate now is about half of what it was during the mid-90s. Coincidentally, there was an assault weapons ban in place in the u.s. in the mid-90s as well.

I don't know the stata for violent crime in general very well.  But, it has sharply decreased over the last two or three decades.

You are doing the cherry picking thing again.  Mass shootings are so rare as to not factor in to the gun death rates, but you want to use them because their numbers agree with your politics.  



VAMatt said:

 But, it is a fact that the gun murder rate peaked in 1994. Firearm ownership has been a massive upward trend since the mid-90s.

You sure that the gun ownership among population increased or just the amount of guns sold increased?  Because to my understanding people who own guns own multiple if not shitload of guns.

I bet half of the increase in gun sales was due to republicans scaring their base into believing Obama would take their guns away.  Gun sales have fallen drastically since Obama left office because no more scare tactics.  Some major gun manufacturers have even declared bankruptcy.  Basically the gun manufacturers need another democrat in oval office so they can scare their base into buying more guns.