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House minority leader trying to blame video games for mass shootings. Update: Walmart pulls violent video game ads for 2 weeks

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There is no way in hell that Americans will give up their guns. Myself included. I don't care how much money is offered to me.

My guns are my legacy. They and the ones before them, will be passed on to responsible family members.



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Azzanation said:
Pemalite said: 

SIP

Alright so do you honestly believe if they take the guns away from the people (it will be the only way to come anywhere close to stopping shootings, we cannot just place laws as laws can be broken) that it will actually stop shootings? You believe that a criminal master mind or some mental head wont be able to get a gun or cause a massive crime scene in the US? 

What if after banning guns, another shooting happens, what will they take away next? Video Games? 

Australia is a heavily monitored country where the lack of freedom is laughable compared to the US. You cannot do anything in Australia without being looked at or fined. Cannot even lower your car height to much without it being illegal. But hey, if lowering a car too low is a danger to lives than I guess it makes sense.. oh wait it has nothing to do with saving lives. Its government control. Heck we have the most speed cameras in the world compared to anywhere else because placing cameras down hills and on roads where the speed changes drastically helps prevent lives.. or is it a money making industry? hmm

Drugs and Guns are very different. If you are saying they are the same thing than we might as well put everything into the same barrel. Everything can kill you so we need to monitor and restrict everyone from doing everything. We live in a Country that is so controlled its beyond a joke. We gave in to Gun laws a long time ago, but than shortly after, we gave them everything else, video games getting banned, knifes getting banned, bats, Cars cannot be lowered or have neon lights, highly restricted on modifying cars etc. Australia gave in and now basically we lost more than just guns. People waste there money paying fines they cannot afford because of our government. 

USA still has all that freedom because the public doesn't want to start the dictatorship and start taking freedom away from the citizens. Having a gun is a form of freedom, just like everything else (Not drugs, Drugs are designed to be evil)

But the stupidest thing Australia has going for it, is its Justice system, We allow murderers to walk free after 4 years, we allow mental heads to drive cars and allow idiots to walk the street. Take something away, they will find another avenue or still get what they wanted anyway. 

My final opinion on this matter is I am all for adding more gun laws and removing guns form the streets however.. I don't believe it will solve the shootings. US is too deep with its own problems that the only way to stop these shootings is to actually find these mental idiots and remove them from the streets. 

If you disagree that's okay, but that's just my opinion.

Legit question for ya, considering your main desire for good guys to have guns is so that good guys can stop bad guys with guns.... how many mass shooters have been stopped by good guys with guns, that aren't cops?

How many of these active shooter situations have been stopped by a civilian taking out their gun and shooting the one who is doing the mass shooting?

I personally would not draw my gun in a situation where cops were joining a scene and I was a civilian with a weapon... because I would perfectly expect the cop to assume I was the shooter and to put me down.

But yeah... just wondering if you know how many times a gun wielding Civilian has stopped a mass shooting.

As for your ... if they put laws in to stop killers being able to get guns, then they'll try to stop us putting neon lights on cars... will you also get cats marrying dogs down that same route? What I mean to say is, don't do that in an argument. If you allow X to happen..... then what's next! It's not a good practice for discussion the topic at hand.



Fancy hearing me on an amateur podcast with friends gushing over one of my favourite games? https://youtu.be/1I7JfMMxhf8

sundin13 said:
Ganoncrotch said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

Ding Ding.

Took longer than expected.

Theres actually a whole Wikipedia article about that specific argument explaining how historians tend to think it is pretty terrible, so he went beyond just dinging the "Hitler" bell.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_gun_control_argument

I wasn't even aware of that being a thing, very interesting read that wiki article, so Hitler put laws in place for gypsies and jews to have difficulty in getting guns because he was aware that if you make it harder for people to get guns then they are less likely to have guns to start shooting at you/each other.

It's kinda sad to think that he was more on the ball with how gun control would work to prevent shootings of his people.

Article is fairly cool as well when it goes into the sheer numbers and power that the German and then Nazi army had in comparison to the possible amount of power you could have ever mustered against that force if you had armed each Jew and Gypsy in the state at the time considering they made up less than 1% of the population and the general population at the time was very pro Nazi, the only differences of arming them would have been them being shot on the streets or shot premptively instead of being able to gather them up into camps. Just that it would never have been a factor in stopping Hitler if civilian jewish people would have had 1940s era pistols Vs the military power of the 3rd Reich.

Thanks for the link though, I love a good study on history / revisionist history to try to back up a modern day argument.



Fancy hearing me on an amateur podcast with friends gushing over one of my favourite games? https://youtu.be/1I7JfMMxhf8

Ganoncrotch said:
Azzanation said:

Alright so do you honestly believe if they take the guns away from the people (it will be the only way to come anywhere close to stopping shootings, we cannot just place laws as laws can be broken) that it will actually stop shootings? You believe that a criminal master mind or some mental head wont be able to get a gun or cause a massive crime scene in the US? 

What if after banning guns, another shooting happens, what will they take away next? Video Games? 

Australia is a heavily monitored country where the lack of freedom is laughable compared to the US. You cannot do anything in Australia without being looked at or fined. Cannot even lower your car height to much without it being illegal. But hey, if lowering a car too low is a danger to lives than I guess it makes sense.. oh wait it has nothing to do with saving lives. Its government control. Heck we have the most speed cameras in the world compared to anywhere else because placing cameras down hills and on roads where the speed changes drastically helps prevent lives.. or is it a money making industry? hmm

Drugs and Guns are very different. If you are saying they are the same thing than we might as well put everything into the same barrel. Everything can kill you so we need to monitor and restrict everyone from doing everything. We live in a Country that is so controlled its beyond a joke. We gave in to Gun laws a long time ago, but than shortly after, we gave them everything else, video games getting banned, knifes getting banned, bats, Cars cannot be lowered or have neon lights, highly restricted on modifying cars etc. Australia gave in and now basically we lost more than just guns. People waste there money paying fines they cannot afford because of our government. 

USA still has all that freedom because the public doesn't want to start the dictatorship and start taking freedom away from the citizens. Having a gun is a form of freedom, just like everything else (Not drugs, Drugs are designed to be evil)

But the stupidest thing Australia has going for it, is its Justice system, We allow murderers to walk free after 4 years, we allow mental heads to drive cars and allow idiots to walk the street. Take something away, they will find another avenue or still get what they wanted anyway. 

My final opinion on this matter is I am all for adding more gun laws and removing guns form the streets however.. I don't believe it will solve the shootings. US is too deep with its own problems that the only way to stop these shootings is to actually find these mental idiots and remove them from the streets. 

If you disagree that's okay, but that's just my opinion.

Legit question for ya, considering your main desire for good guys to have guns is so that good guys can stop bad guys with guns.... how many mass shooters have been stopped by good guys with guns, that aren't cops?

How many of these active shooter situations have been stopped by a civilian taking out their gun and shooting the one who is doing the mass shooting?

I personally would not draw my gun in a situation where cops were joining a scene and I was a civilian with a weapon... because I would perfectly expect the cop to assume I was the shooter and to put me down.

But yeah... just wondering if you know how many times a gun wielding Civilian has stopped a mass shooting.

As for your ... if they put laws in to stop killers being able to get guns, then they'll try to stop us putting neon lights on cars... will you also get cats marrying dogs down that same route? What I mean to say is, don't do that in an argument. If you allow X to happen..... then what's next! It's not a good practice for discussion the topic at hand.

It is essentially impossible to answer how many were stopped by a good guy with a gun.  They were stopped.  So, some of them ended with just one or two victims, rather than the larger number that would have happened without the armed person bringing an end to it.  Those aren't reflected in the mass shooting stats, obviously. There are lots of stats about defensive gun uses available though.  A Google search will give you lots of good info about that.  

I'll note that anyone with a gun and a chance to stop a shooting in progress, scared of being shot or not, damn sure better do everything they can to stop it.  I can't think of anything more cowardly that to see a gunman killing people right in front of you, *while you have a reasonable chance of bringing the gunman down* and just doing nothing.   

Last edited by VAMatt - on 11 August 2019

Ganoncrotch said:
Azzanation said:

Alright so do you honestly believe if they take the guns away from the people (it will be the only way to come anywhere close to stopping shootings, we cannot just place laws as laws can be broken) that it will actually stop shootings? You believe that a criminal master mind or some mental head wont be able to get a gun or cause a massive crime scene in the US? 

What if after banning guns, another shooting happens, what will they take away next? Video Games? 

Australia is a heavily monitored country where the lack of freedom is laughable compared to the US. You cannot do anything in Australia without being looked at or fined. Cannot even lower your car height to much without it being illegal. But hey, if lowering a car too low is a danger to lives than I guess it makes sense.. oh wait it has nothing to do with saving lives. Its government control. Heck we have the most speed cameras in the world compared to anywhere else because placing cameras down hills and on roads where the speed changes drastically helps prevent lives.. or is it a money making industry? hmm

Drugs and Guns are very different. If you are saying they are the same thing than we might as well put everything into the same barrel. Everything can kill you so we need to monitor and restrict everyone from doing everything. We live in a Country that is so controlled its beyond a joke. We gave in to Gun laws a long time ago, but than shortly after, we gave them everything else, video games getting banned, knifes getting banned, bats, Cars cannot be lowered or have neon lights, highly restricted on modifying cars etc. Australia gave in and now basically we lost more than just guns. People waste there money paying fines they cannot afford because of our government. 

USA still has all that freedom because the public doesn't want to start the dictatorship and start taking freedom away from the citizens. Having a gun is a form of freedom, just like everything else (Not drugs, Drugs are designed to be evil)

But the stupidest thing Australia has going for it, is its Justice system, We allow murderers to walk free after 4 years, we allow mental heads to drive cars and allow idiots to walk the street. Take something away, they will find another avenue or still get what they wanted anyway. 

My final opinion on this matter is I am all for adding more gun laws and removing guns form the streets however.. I don't believe it will solve the shootings. US is too deep with its own problems that the only way to stop these shootings is to actually find these mental idiots and remove them from the streets. 

If you disagree that's okay, but that's just my opinion.

Legit question for ya, considering your main desire for good guys to have guns is so that good guys can stop bad guys with guns.... how many mass shooters have been stopped by good guys with guns, that aren't cops?

How many of these active shooter situations have been stopped by a civilian taking out their gun and shooting the one who is doing the mass shooting?

I personally would not draw my gun in a situation where cops were joining a scene and I was a civilian with a weapon... because I would perfectly expect the cop to assume I was the shooter and to put me down.

But yeah... just wondering if you know how many times a gun wielding Civilian has stopped a mass shooting.

As for your ... if they put laws in to stop killers being able to get guns, then they'll try to stop us putting neon lights on cars... will you also get cats marrying dogs down that same route? What I mean to say is, don't do that in an argument. If you allow X to happen..... then what's next! It's not a good practice for discussion the topic at hand.

how many mass shooters have been stopped by good guys with guns, that aren't cops?"

it happened routinely in past, its what the whole western movie genre is based on



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o_O.Q said:
Ganoncrotch said:

Legit question for ya, considering your main desire for good guys to have guns is so that good guys can stop bad guys with guns.... how many mass shooters have been stopped by good guys with guns, that aren't cops?

How many of these active shooter situations have been stopped by a civilian taking out their gun and shooting the one who is doing the mass shooting?

I personally would not draw my gun in a situation where cops were joining a scene and I was a civilian with a weapon... because I would perfectly expect the cop to assume I was the shooter and to put me down.

But yeah... just wondering if you know how many times a gun wielding Civilian has stopped a mass shooting.

As for your ... if they put laws in to stop killers being able to get guns, then they'll try to stop us putting neon lights on cars... will you also get cats marrying dogs down that same route? What I mean to say is, don't do that in an argument. If you allow X to happen..... then what's next! It's not a good practice for discussion the topic at hand.

how many mass shooters have been stopped by good guys with guns, that aren't cops?"

it happened routinely in past, its what the whole western movie genre is based on

You can't be serious lmao. The wild west was a period of lawlessness and incredible violence, crime and corruption. But even besides that, the western movie movie genre is a fictive glorified version of what happened in those times LMAO 



Azzanation said:

Alright so do you honestly believe if they take the guns away from the people (it will be the only way to come anywhere close to stopping shootings, we cannot just place laws as laws can be broken) that it will actually stop shootings? You believe that a criminal master mind or some mental head wont be able to get a gun or cause a massive crime scene in the US? 

Uh. It's not taking guns away from people... You are looking at it incorrectly. - You do not loose your constitutional right to bear arms.
You need to educate yourself on what Australia did, how it did it and why it did what it did... Because it worked.

Even if Australia has a massacre tomorrow, the gun legislation that it brought in decades ago still worked, the scheme was successful.

Essentially the first phase was the legislative phase, this is where the debates were had... Where Pro-gun nuts used the same arguments you did... (And were historically proven incorrect!) From there we formed and came up with the new laws and legislation that would go on to form the ground work of our gun control scheme.

The second phase was a voluntary gun buy-back scheme, where you would go to the Police station and hand in your weapon for cash, this reduced the amount of devices in the country substantially, people rushed to it.

The third phase was where education of the population would occur, to guide people through the appropriate avenues to purchase weapons, how to store weapons, how to use the weapons... For example we need to store guns in a locked safe, bolted to the ground with an active alarm system monitoring it. (I.E. No gun stored in a shoebox for a kid to reach into!)

It is a process... It is a process that still continues. - The guns didn't just disappear from existence over night you know and there is a talk for another buy-back effort after the last couple were so successful.

Azzanation said:

What if after banning guns, another shooting happens, what will they take away next? Video Games? 

Isn't that what they are talking about in the USA anyway despite guns being legal? Ergo your argument holds zero weight.

...But our Gun control works, so we aren't even having this discussion in Australia!

Azzanation said:

Australia is a heavily monitored country where the lack of freedom is laughable compared to the US. You cannot do anything in Australia without being looked at or fined. Cannot even lower your car height to much without it being illegal. But hey, if lowering a car too low is a danger to lives than I guess it makes sense.. oh wait it has nothing to do with saving lives. Its government control. Heck we have the most speed cameras in the world compared to anywhere else because placing cameras down hills and on roads where the speed changes drastically helps prevent lives.. or is it a money making industry? hmm

This is absolutely Fake news.

You can lower your car. - You can lower your car by no more than one-third of the original suspension travel that was set when the car was manufactured.. And there is very fundamental reasons for such limits... And it results in me going out to less car accidents and cutting gear heads out of vehicles.

Australia's "Freedoms" ranks far more highly than the United States in various indices. - Have you not done your research?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Press_Freedom_Index
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_of_Economic_Freedom
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_and_surveillance_by_country

As for being heavily monitored... That is laughable when compared to the nation who pushed for the NSA to have Mass Surveillance on all American Citizens! Hahahaha
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_surveillance_in_the_United_States

And Australia is worst off? Puhlease.

Azzanation said:

Drugs and Guns are very different. If you are saying they are the same thing than we might as well put everything into the same barrel. Everything can kill you so we need to monitor and restrict everyone from doing everything. We live in a Country that is so controlled its beyond a joke. We gave in to Gun laws a long time ago, but than shortly after, we gave them everything else, video games getting banned, knifes getting banned, bats, Cars cannot be lowered or have neon lights, highly restricted on modifying cars etc. Australia gave in and now basically we lost more than just guns. People waste there money paying fines they cannot afford because of our government. 

Yes Drugs and Guns are very different, that isn't up for dispute.
But what is the same is the reasoning/excuses that you can use to justify both, meaning your original argument is highly flawed.

We also have not lost access to guns. You can still buy and own guns. - Stop with the fake news!

Azzanation said:

My final opinion on this matter is I am all for adding more gun laws and removing guns form the streets however.. I don't believe it will solve the shootings. US is too deep with its own problems that the only way to stop these shootings is to actually find these mental idiots and remove them from the streets. 

Again, we need to look at what has worked. And Gun control has proven to work in more than 1 nation.



Pemalite said: 
Azzanation said:

What if after banning guns, another shooting happens, what will they take away next? Video Games? 

Isn't that what they are talking about in the USA anyway despite guns being legal? Ergo your argument holds zero weight.

...But our Gun control works, so we aren't even having this discussion in Australia!

That's because the problem with people is we want to pass the blame onto something. Its no different to exactly what you are doing instead of blaming video games, you are blaming guns. 

Azzanation said:

Australia is a heavily monitored country where the lack of freedom is laughable compared to the US. You cannot do anything in Australia without being looked at or fined. Cannot even lower your car height to much without it being illegal. But hey, if lowering a car too low is a danger to lives than I guess it makes sense.. oh wait it has nothing to do with saving lives. Its government control. Heck we have the most speed cameras in the world compared to anywhere else because placing cameras down hills and on roads where the speed changes drastically helps prevent lives.. or is it a money making industry? hmm

This is absolutely Fake news.

You can lower your car. - You can lower your car by no more than one-third of the original suspension travel that was set when the car was manufactured.. And there is very fundamental reasons for such limits... And it results in me going out to less car accidents and cutting gear heads out of vehicles.

Australia's "Freedoms" ranks far more highly than the United States in various indices. - Have you not done your research?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Press_Freedom_Index
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_of_Economic_Freedom
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_and_surveillance_by_country

As for being heavily monitored... That is laughable when compared to the nation who pushed for the NSA to have Mass Surveillance on all American Citizens! Hahahaha
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_surveillance_in_the_United_States

And Australia is worst off? Puhlease.

Do you honestly think fining car drivers because they lowered there car a couple centimetres lower than it should is a life and death situation? Sorry to say, cars actually handle better the lower they are. Its a stupid rule in place much like having a car exhaust a little louder than the limit.. because government control, not safety. And just to prove my point, Motorbikes are aloud to have loud exhausts because it acts like a safety feature so others can here them coming. Why cant we have Neon lights on the bottom of our cars? because of safety? Yeah right. Its incredibly sad how the AUS goverment wont let you do anything to your car. It has nothing to do with safety, just controlling your citizens and making money. Sorry if you believe otherwise.

Azzanation said:

Drugs and Guns are very different. If you are saying they are the same thing than we might as well put everything into the same barrel. Everything can kill you so we need to monitor and restrict everyone from doing everything. We live in a Country that is so controlled its beyond a joke. We gave in to Gun laws a long time ago, but than shortly after, we gave them everything else, video games getting banned, knifes getting banned, bats, Cars cannot be lowered or have neon lights, highly restricted on modifying cars etc. Australia gave in and now basically we lost more than just guns. People waste there money paying fines they cannot afford because of our government. 

Yes Drugs and Guns are very different, that isn't up for dispute.
But what is the same is the reasoning/excuses that you can use to justify both, meaning your original argument is highly flawed.

We also have not lost access to guns. You can still buy and own guns. - Stop with the fake news!

Thank You for admitting Drugs and Guns are different. 

We can own guns, I know but the sneaky thing Australia did was destroy majority of guns so people couldn't actually buy guns which meant buying means imports, special licenses, and finding a place that actually sells guns. yet we still have bike gang shootings all the time. Strange. 

BTW Pump Action Shotguns are banned from my knowledge in AUS. I would assume same would be for some high powered weaponry as well.

Azzanation said:

My final opinion on this matter is I am all for adding more gun laws and removing guns form the streets however.. I don't believe it will solve the shootings. US is too deep with its own problems that the only way to stop these shootings is to actually find these mental idiots and remove them from the streets. 

Again, we need to look at what has worked. And Gun control has proven to work in more than 1 nation.

If your method is to take something away to solve an issue than its a fail on our behalf. How about solve the issue that causes it rather than give the government more control. As I have witnessed first hand in this country, give the government an inch, they take a mile. We lost all rights to a lot of things. And if the USA still have gun massacres after implying laws than expect them to keep taking until there is nothing left to take. I don't agree with taking something away from people especially since the majority has done nothing wrong with guns apart from some bad eggs.  



OTBWY said:
o_O.Q said:

how many mass shooters have been stopped by good guys with guns, that aren't cops?"

it happened routinely in past, its what the whole western movie genre is based on

You can't be serious lmao. The wild west was a period of lawlessness and incredible violence, crime and corruption. But even besides that, the western movie movie genre is a fictive glorified version of what happened in those times LMAO 

Of course not, he's obviously trolling.



Gameplay > Graphics

Substance > Style

Art Direction > Realism

Azzanation said:

If your method is to take something away to solve an issue than its a fail on our behalf. How about solve the issue that causes it rather than give the government more control. As I have witnessed first hand in this country, give the government an inch, they take a mile. We lost all rights to a lot of things. And if the USA still have gun massacres after implying laws than expect them to keep taking until there is nothing left to take. I don't agree with taking something away from people especially since the majority has done nothing wrong with guns apart from some bad eggs.  

Sorry to bust in but I think one major reason for this entire argument is that you believe the problem was binary, when it's actually not. This is not a question of 'either this or that', it's rather a spectrum. Having stricter gun laws does not automatically mean that the government takes anything away from you. It also doesn't mean that suddenly these massacres vanish over night. But it's a first step to decrease the chances of such massacres. That's what this is about. We all know and agree that bad things can happen anytime anywhere, but what anti-gunners simply want is to decrease the chances. This is really not that hard to grasp.

If laws were stricter the amount of guns will decrease slowly. Again, this is not binary, so it won't happen over night, but we're talking about slow processes that may take several years of time. And then next, with fewer guns in the wild, chances will logically decrease that guns will be violated and therefore fewer people will die unnecessary deaths. Everybody would be safer in general. Wouldn't you want that, too?



Gameplay > Graphics

Substance > Style

Art Direction > Realism