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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Upgraded Switch model announced: Same price, battery life of 4.5 to 9 hours - Launches in August (Americas, Japan) and September (Others)

Soundwave said:
curl-6 said:

There is no need for a "Switch Pro", and no need for a Switch successor before 2023 at the earliest.

The market is clearly happy with the level of power the Switch offers. Graphics aren't what people are buying it for, nor are AAA multiplats, so the idea that it needs to be stronger and get PS5/Scarlet ports to stay relevant is simply wrong.

Things can change in a hurry, Wii went from a top brand to a brand that was fizzling out in about 2 years flat. 

Nintendo systems often look strong in year 3 ... by year 4/5 it can quickly be a different story. 

The only post SNES Nintendo system that "finished strong" in a full life cycle has been the DS, everything else they seem to run into real problems by after the 3rd anniversary of launch. 

That's false.
The Wii sold 25.95 million units during its 3rd year 20.53 million in its 4th year on the market, 15.08 million in year 5. All years above the peak performance of the competition (14.3M by PS3 in fy2011), and only in the 6th year did it fall below: but at 9.84 million it was still strongly competing with the now matured ugly duckling PS3 console, and it was only in 2013 (year 7) that the Wii fell significantly below PS3 in sales (3.98m vs 8.4m) Hardly the drop from being a top brand in 2 years flat you claimed. It should also be noted that PS3 sales fizzled in year 8 (2014); not a significantly longer period of success.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/227012/lifetime-unit-sales-of-nintendos-home-consoles/
https://www.statista.com/statistics/651584/global-ps3-console-unit-sales/

The SNES peaked in its second year (with the exception of Japan) http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/reply.php?id=240588&quote=9035461

The only reason the NES "finished strong" is because of its staggered launch: while launching in 1983, it was still launching in certain cities for the first time as late as 1993 in Europe (1991 in the West). It would be dishonest to say the NES had a "strong finish" when in many places it didn't even start the race until the very end.

Last edited by Jumpin - on 18 July 2019

I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

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Jumpin said:
Soundwave said:

Things can change in a hurry, Wii went from a top brand to a brand that was fizzling out in about 2 years flat. 

Nintendo systems often look strong in year 3 ... by year 4/5 it can quickly be a different story. 

The only post SNES Nintendo system that "finished strong" in a full life cycle has been the DS, everything else they seem to run into real problems by after the 3rd anniversary of launch. 

That's false.
The Wii sold 25.95 million units during its 3rd year 20.53 million in its 4th year on the market, 15.08 million in year 5. All years above the peak performance of the competition (14.3M by PS3 in fy2011), and only in the 6th year did it fall below: but at 9.84 million it was still strongly competing with the now matured ugly duckling PS3 console, and it was only in 2013 (year 7) that the Wii fell significantly below PS3 in sales (3.98m vs 8.4m) Hardly the drop from being a top brand in 2 years flat you claimed. It should also be noted that PS3 sales fizzled in year 8 (2014); not a significantly longer period of success.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/227012/lifetime-unit-sales-of-nintendos-home-consoles/
https://www.statista.com/statistics/651584/global-ps3-console-unit-sales/

The SNES peaked in its second year (with the exception of Japan) http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/reply.php?id=240588&quote=9035461

The only reason the NES "finished strong" is because of its staggered launch: while launching in 1983, it was still launching in certain cities for the first time as late as 1993 in Europe (1991 in the West). It would be dishonest to say the NES had a "strong finish" when in many places it didn't even start the race until the very end.

Dropping by 5 million a year every year for three years is a fairly negative trend even if the peak was quite high, that indicated Wii peaked and then started a downward trajectory which eventually led to the brand completely falling apart and having dropped off dramatically by 2011. 

NES had a staggered launch sure, but Nintendo wasn't like forced to release a new game every month for it towards the end, in 1989 and 1990 they basically just held Super Mario 3 off and it didn't really make any difference because they could afford to not have to carry the platform so much on their own shoulders in those days. 



RolStoppable said:
Soundwave said:

There's little doubt Pro/X models helped the XBox One and PS4 show unusually strong legs in the back half of their product cycle. 

To be honest, Sony/MS don't really even need a Pro model, they have enough developer support that they're still getting huge releases virtually every month even deep into year 5/6/7 without having to do anything. 

It's a concept that honestly probably works best for Nintendo that doesn't have the above luxury. Nintendo systems need a "Pro" mid-gen boost more than Sony or MS do. 

The 5-6 year product cycle for Nintendo systems made sense for the time era it was invented for -- the 80s/90s where the NES and SNES had 100% dev support, but it really has not worked well for any Nintendo system outside of the DS since. No system since DS aside has had really a rich, full product cycle without basically crawling to the finish line half dead. 

Which even then was kinda ok when you had two hardware lines, but having just one is going to be problematic if sales start to slow in years 4 and especially 5/6 where it could get ugly. 

Here you are again championing Sony and Microsoft for no good reason. The Xbox One doesn't have strong legs at all, but that doesn't stop you from pretending that it does. The 3DS showed better legs and that was because of a reason that you didn't grasp: Nintendo put games on smartphones to promote their IPs which in turn led to a substantial increase for dedicated gaming hardware, so the 3DS's sixth year ended up being better than its fifth year. Nintendo shipped more than 7m units during the 3DS's sixth full fiscal year, a value that Microsoft isn't going to match with their Xbox One. Naturally, you downplayed the positive effect of Nintendo's smartphone games on their sales of dedicated gaming hardware.

Before the Switch's launch, you made it a point to tell Nintendo fans that they should be happy if the console sells 40m units lifetime because that would be good for what the Switch is; looks like Switch will have no trouble to sail past that mark. You bought into the "soft launch theory", meaning that Nintendo wasn't launching Switch in earnest until fall 2017 because its launch window games were presumably weak; we are talking about Breath of the Wild and Mario Kart 8 Deluxe here. You repeatedly proposed that Nintendo should team up with Microsoft to stand a chance in the console market and put games on Xbox; what actually happened is that Microsoft is a third party partner for Nintendo.

You have tried time and time again to analyze Nintendo in a Sony and Microsoft context and it failed you repeatedly. Now here you are acting concerned that Switch won't have strong sales after year 3, but 2020 already looks like a cakewalk, because for one, Switch still hasn't received a price cut, and two, the competition already can't keep up in 2019 and will be even worse in 2020. 2021 won't be a problem either, so it would be surprising if either the PS5 or Scarlett sold more than Switch. Given how healthy the Switch's software pipeline is, it makes the most sense to compare it to the DS, so that's the kind of sales curve you should expect, a prolonged peak.

Your obsession with a Pro model is just another chapter in your desire that Nintendo should be like Sony and Microsoft. Nintendo is doing virtually nothing of the things you want them to do and they are very successful with it. Maybe it's time that you seriously ask yourself if you actually know anything about how the console market works. You call the 3DS's sales by year 4/5 piss poor, but the Xbox One is apparently showing strong legs despite selling worse than the 3DS. You already struggle on the most fundamental level that is about comparing a couple of numbers.

"Championing MS and Sony" lol, ok, jeezus can you any more corporate obsessed? These aren't religions or even sports teams. Who cares, I'm merely citing that mid-gen Pro style refreshes do provide mid-cycle sales boosts. Argue that if you want but you probably really can't. 

I would expect sales of Switch to be solid through 2020 as I expect BOTW2 + new 3D Mario to go with AC and Bayo 3, but "2021 is a given no matter what" yeah ... no, not sure if I'm buying that kool-aid. 

By 2021, they'll likely have used up every major IP they have and even doubled down on IPs like 3D Zelda and 3D Mario. 

I think that's where they will start to see some decline, 2020 is still in the 3 year range. 2021, 2022 are more problematic I think. 

Just sequel-izing IP that are already on the Switch and selling to a big chunk of the userbase isn't going to be the be-all answer, with BOTW2 for example a large portion of the people who would be buying it are going to naturally be some of the 12 million+ that are Zelda fans that already have the Switch for BOTW1. So each successive sequel your "hardware sales bump" diminishes. 

Quality isn't the only issue, BOTW is tremendous quality, that actually works against BOTW2 being as large of a system seller because BOTW is so good that it brings in so many people to begin with that the sequel doesn't have anywhere near as large of a net to cast to get new hardware buyers from. 

New IP can certainly do the trick but it's also like buying a lottery ticket, there's no guarantee whatsoever that your new IP is going to be a big hardware driving hit. 



RolStoppable said:
Soundwave said:

"Championing MS and Sony" lol, ok, jeezus can you any more corporate obsessed? These aren't religions or even sports teams. Who cares, I'm merely citing that mid-gen Pro style refreshes do provide mid-cycle sales boosts. Argue that if you want but you probably really can't. 

I would expect sales of Switch to be solid through 2020 as I expect BOTW2 + new 3D Mario to go with AC and Bayo 3, but "2021 is a given no matter what" yeah ... no, not sure if I'm buying that kool-aid. 

By 2021, they'll likely have used up every major IP they have and even doubled down on IPs like 3D Zelda and 3D Mario. 

I think that's where they will start to see some decline, 2020 is still in the 3 year range. 2021, 2022 are more problematic I think. 

Just sequel-izing IP that are already on the Switch and selling to a big chunk of the userbase isn't going to be the be-all answer, with BOTW2 for example a large portion of the people who would be buying it are going to naturally be some of the 12 million+ that are Zelda fans that already have the Switch for BOTW1. So each successive sequel your "hardware sales bump" diminishes. 

Quality isn't the only issue, BOTW is tremendous quality, that actually works against BOTW2 being as large of a system seller because BOTW is so good that it brings in so many people to begin with that the sequel doesn't have anywhere near as large of a net to cast to get new hardware buyers from. 

New IP can certainly do the trick but it's also like buying a lottery ticket, there's no guarantee whatsoever that your new IP is going to be a big hardware driving hit. 

The revisions that Nintendo does are usually more effective than what Sony and Microsoft do. The Xbox One X couldn't prevent the decline of the Microsoft console, let alone provide a boost to make 2018 have better sales than 2017. Given your post volume in this thread and how you posted, I am sure you totally expected a Switch Pro to come out of the WSJ rumor. Now that it's clear that there isn't a Pro, you speculate about developers being able to use a performance boost as if that would make any difference or had any importance.

The benefit of a single console for Nintendo is that their top development teams have the option to put out sequels to already present IPs or create new IPs, as opposed to before where neither of those things were feasible on a company-wide basis. On top of that, Switch holds a monopoly in the handheld market which will keep it relevant for years to come regardless of how successful the new Sony and Microsoft consoles are. Furthermore, there are plenty of options left for Nintendo in terms of price cuts and revisions, so a long lifespan for Switch with sales of 10m+ per calendar year for seven years or more isn't farfetched at all, rather it should be expected.

2020 isn't in the year 3 range. If you want to be overly technical, you can count January and February 2020 towards year 3, and you can count March 2020 if you use the measurement of full fiscal years. But April 2020 and onwards is year 4 any way you slice it, and that puts a significant majority of 2020 into year 4.

Did the New 3DS or 2DS cause a lasting boost in 3DS sales? Or even a YoY boost that was significant? No? Then it wasn't as effective from an actual statistical perspective. 

Yes Switch can have more Mario and Zelda etc. games on it because of unified development setup, I never claimed that to not be the case, the issue is by 2021, who really are you bringing in that's new when you already have 2-3 major representations of said IP on the system already?

The fact is by the end of 2020 they'll have used up basically all their major IP and even doubled up likely on several of them. You can sequelize more from there but you end up hitting a saturation point because the previous games sell so well that they already have brought in most of the audience that would buy a system for that IP so now you're kinda just selling to same people who already own the system. 

I don't think 2021 + 2022 being defacto smooth sailing is some unassailable opinion that can't be challenged. We will see how that goes for Nintendo if they decide to really not rely at all on any kind of serious hardware refresh. My guess is they will start to see fairly notable declines in hardware sales at that point if they do that. 

Which will be interesting to see how they react since in the past they always had two hardware lines to kind of mitigate the impact from the down cycle period of hardware generations. 



RolStoppable said:
Soundwave said:

Did the New 3DS or 2DS cause a lasting boost in 3DS sales? Or even a YoY boost that was significant? No? Then it wasn't as effective from an actual statistical perspective. 

Yes Switch can have more Mario and Zelda etc. games on it because of unified development setup, I never claimed that to not be the case, the issue is by 2021, who really are you bringing in that's new when you already have 2-3 major representations of said IP on the system already?

The fact is by the end of 2020 they'll have used up basically all their major IP and even doubled up likely on several of them. You can sequelize more from there but you end up hitting a saturation point because the previous games sell so well that they already have brought in most of the audience that would buy a system for that IP so now you're kinda just selling to same people who already own the system. 

I don't think 2021 + 2022 being defacto smooth sailing is some unassailable opinion that can't be challenged. We will see how that goes for Nintendo if they decide to really not rely at all on any kind of serious hardware refresh. My guess is they will start to see fairly notable declines in hardware sales at that point if they do that. 

Which will be interesting to see how they react since in the past they always had two hardware lines to kind of mitigate the impact from the down cycle period of hardware generations. 

The 3DS was a troubled platform since the beginning, so a comparison with it doesn't hold much merit when Switch is clearly not following the 3DS trajectory of sales.

I think you didn't read my post because I pointed out the monopoly in the handheld market and further revisions, plus price cuts. The handheld market is pretty big and Nintendo has it all to themselves. They can capitalize on that with cheaper hardware prices because the upcoming Switch Lite at $199 sits at the high end of typical handheld prices. That's why 2021 and 2022 are nothing to worry about.

Price cuts haven't really ever stopped declining/aging Nintendo hardware sales past a short term boost.

I don't think they have much interest in giving up the $300 price bracket either, they like the lucrative profit margins they get at that price point. The Lite model is basically a way for them to keep the base Switch at $300 for a long time, because if you're cheap/broke/8-years-old well then the Lite option is made for you. 

2021 and 2022 will be a challenge for them IMO but we'll see. 

Switch is doing better than 3DS but it's not like it's light years ahead either, the Switch is at 32.3 million as of end of January 2019, 3DS was at about 30 million at the same equivalent time point in its product cycle. The 3DS did actually have reasonably decent sales in its first 3 years or so outside of one poor 4-5 month stretch post launch, but it really hit a brick wall after about (again) for the fiscal year of 2014-2015 (March). 

Last edited by Soundwave - on 18 July 2019

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curl-6 said:

There is no need for a "Switch Pro", and no need for a Switch successor before 2023 at the earliest.

The market is clearly happy with the level of power the Switch offers. Graphics aren't what people are buying it for, nor are AAA multiplats, so the idea that it needs to be stronger and get PS5/Scarlet ports to stay relevant is simply wrong.

4 years at the earliest??

The history of them spending 7 years one one handheld no longer makes sense, the biggest reason for that was software support and vastly different hardware with unique USPs. Nintendo has hit gold with the Switch, the Switch 2 will most likely just be a better version of the 1st, so why wait til 2023? Its not like they sell hardware at loss, they dont have to wait to recoup their losses before they start bleeding again. The truth in the past they would of had to decide which platform to support or rebuild games from the ground up for different very didfferent hardware. In the modern age thats obviously not happening and they could easily support a Switch and Switch 2 simultaneously, whilst rejuvenating interest in the brand and software support.

I  think some of you forget how quickly Nintendo consoles fall in sales in their late life as well as forgetting the revenue potential of having 3rd party games sell on your platform. Its not about chasing PS5 and X4, its about offering the relevant hardware when your audience demands it and for the first time in decades actually being viable as most a primary platform for most gamers.

The timing of the Switch 2 should be a calculated meassurement of demand in the market, new financial opportunities and an affordable technological leap to enable those opportunities. I dont know when that will be but I think Ninty is just a few months from burning through all their best sellers with hardware which is already presenting limitations and shortfalls both for consumers and for developers. We shouldnt assume Nintendo will wait until the Switch stops selling or set a rigid length of time for which it considers a generation.

I agree about Switch Pro being unless though. Ultimately if they offer a more power system it shouldnt just be to fix a games framerate or hit 1080p, but to offer a whole new promising future of new nintendo and third party games.


Last edited by Otter - on 18 July 2019

RolStoppable said:
Soundwave said:

Price cuts haven't really ever stopped declining/aging Nintendo hardware sales past a short term boost.

I don't think they have much interest in giving up the $300 price bracket either, they like the lucrative profit margins they get at that price point. The Lite model is basically a way for them to keep the base Switch at $300 for a long time, because if you're cheap/broke/8-years-old well then the Lite option is made for you. 

2021 and 2022 will be a challenge for them IMO but we'll see. 

Switch is doing better than 3DS but it's not like it's light years ahead either, the Switch is at 32.3 million as of end of January 2019, 3DS was at about 30 million at the same equivalent time point in its product cycle. The 3DS did actually have reasonably decent sales in its first 3 years or so outside of one poor 4-5 month stretch post launch, but it really hit a brick wall after about (again) for the fiscal year of 2014-2015 (March). 

Analytical skills come in handy. All figures are for the end of the mentioned calendar year (unless noted otherwise) and are shipment figures. Both the 3DS and Switch launched almost exactly at the same time of the year, so launch-aligned comparisons work very well.

3DS LTD 2011 - 15.03m
Switch LTD 2017 - 14.86m

On the surface it looks like the two consoles are performing at the same level, but an important factor is that the 3DS got a substantial price cut to achieve its figure. What a price cut does is shift sales that would have normally occured later down the line into an earlier year. This will be important to remember because it explains why the 3DS dropped off eventually.

3DS LTD 2012 - 29.84m
Switch LTD 2018 - 32.27m

Here we see that Switch has pulled ahead, but it must be noted that the 3DS received a major revision with the 3DS XL which spurred sales. Switch is ahead despite having neither a revision or price cut, so this is a strong indicator for much better momentum. This will be important to remember because it explains why Switch is poised to pull so far ahead of the 3DS in the long run.

Let's look at the most recent data to get an idea of the momentum:

3DS LTD March 2013 - 31.09m (+1.25m)
Switch LTD March 2019 - 34.74m (+2.47m)

Switch did twice as much as the 3DS in the most recent quarter. Now let's take a peek into the future:

3DS LTD 2013 - 42.74m

This means that Switch needs to ship only 8.00m units in the next nine months to match the 3DS. However, Nintendo's forecast of 18m for the fiscal year can be extrapolated to 15m for the next nine months. That would put Switch ahead by 7.00m units with a total of 49.74m units. What's worth mentioning here is that the general consensus is that Nintendo's forecast is too low, so the actual gap will most likely be bigger. Switch is bound to cross the 50m mark by the end of this calendar year.

Let's look further into the future:

3DS LTD 2014 - 50.41m

Just above 50m. Looks like that by the end of the 2019 Switch will already have a one-year-lead over the 3DS. At this point I have to ask what you expect Switch to sell in 2020. Do you expect Switch to follow in the footsteps of the 3DS? And what is your prediction for lifetime sales of Switch?

I would expect it to sell past the 3DS, just pointing out that to date the Switch isn't *that* far ahead of the 3DS. $250 was always a ridiculous price point for what the 3DS was offering anyway, Nintendo thought they could get away with it because of the 3D screen gimmick, it was always a $199.99 proposition and even that was probably pushing it but they were arrogant in that era and thought any kind of gimmick they threw out there + 3D puppies would be a smash hit. They were wrong. 

I think this fiscal year will be the peak sales year for the Switch, then the following year (primarily 2020) will see about even sales, it's 2021 and 2022 that I think are going to see notable declines.

The 2020 lineup lets say is: Animal Crossing, Zelda: BOTW2, Mario 3D 2 (EAD Tokyo), and Bayonetta 3 amongst other lesser games. 

2021 lineup then is what? Pokemon 3rd title, ok, but at this point you've already released two major Pokemon titles on the system, the 3rd pass at it likely doesn't yield big returns in terms of hardware boost. Metroid? OK, not really ever a big seller. More Mario or Zelda? You're kinda hitting up against diminishing returns there as there's so much Mario/Zelda content on the system by this time. 

2022 is even more problematic. 

The core problem I think is that you need really about 15-16 system selling IP to carry a platform through a really successful 5-6 year cycle and Nintendo has about 8 (2D Mario, 3D Mario, Mario Kart, Zelda, Pokemon, Smash Bros., Splatoon, Animal Crossing) and by about year 4 you've really already used all of these once and in some cases more than once. 8 is nothing to scoff at for a regular publisher, but Nintendo has much more burden on their shoulders than a regular publisher. You have B-tier sellers below that like Kirby, Yoshi, Fire Emblem, but they're not really selling mass amounts of hardware. 

That's where I think for Nintendo's case, a strict 1980s style 5-6 year product cycle doesn't really make sense. 

I think probably what would make more sense is a phased type of transition that is more gradual and not so sudden, ie: "Switch 2" launches in March/April 2021 (4 years in), but there are still many, maybe even a majority of Nintendo published titles that work on both the OG Switch and the new generation Switch. 

Or the mid-gen major refresh approach. Both would help mitigate the problem of the console down cycle that hits Nintendo particularly hard and it's something that is a bigger problem when you only have one hardware line to carry the company with. 



Soundwave said:
Jumpin said:

That's false.
The Wii sold 25.95 million units during its 3rd year 20.53 million in its 4th year on the market, 15.08 million in year 5. All years above the peak performance of the competition (14.3M by PS3 in fy2011), and only in the 6th year did it fall below: but at 9.84 million it was still strongly competing with the now matured ugly duckling PS3 console, and it was only in 2013 (year 7) that the Wii fell significantly below PS3 in sales (3.98m vs 8.4m) Hardly the drop from being a top brand in 2 years flat you claimed. It should also be noted that PS3 sales fizzled in year 8 (2014); not a significantly longer period of success.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/227012/lifetime-unit-sales-of-nintendos-home-consoles/
https://www.statista.com/statistics/651584/global-ps3-console-unit-sales/

The SNES peaked in its second year (with the exception of Japan) http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/reply.php?id=240588&quote=9035461

The only reason the NES "finished strong" is because of its staggered launch: while launching in 1983, it was still launching in certain cities for the first time as late as 1993 in Europe (1991 in the West). It would be dishonest to say the NES had a "strong finish" when in many places it didn't even start the race until the very end.

Dropping by 5 million a year every year for three years is a fairly negative trend even if the peak was quite high, that indicated Wii peaked and then started a downward trajectory which eventually led to the brand completely falling apart and having dropped off dramatically by 2011. 

NES had a staggered launch sure, but Nintendo wasn't like forced to release a new game every month for it towards the end, in 1989 and 1990 they basically just held Super Mario 3 off and it didn't really make any difference because they could afford to not have to carry the platform so much on their own shoulders in those days. 

That doesn't help your "Wii fizzled out after two years flat" argument in the slightest, since you are now saying it fell apart in 2011, which is the fifth year, not the second or third year.

Looking at your other claims:
* 5 million drop is highly negative.
* 2011 is when the Wii collapsed when it sold 15.09 million (still higher than the peak of the competition, I might add).
* That the SNES had a strong lifecycle.

Let's look at the sales data:

* In year 4 the Wii had dropped by 5.42 million to 20.53 million from its year 3 peak of 25.95 million, a decline of 21%.
* In year 5 the Wii fell an additional 5.44 million to 15.09 million, bringing that decline to 43% from peak year 3 levels.
* In Fiscal Year 3 aligned, the SNES sold 12.03 million units, but this fell by 7.09 million to 4.94 million units during year 4, that amounts to a 59% drop.
* It wasn't until year 6, at 62% decline from the year 3 peak that the Wii had a statistical tie of decline during the SNES's 4th year alone.

Now let's draw some conclusions:

Your assertions regarding the Wii are inconsistent with your assertions regarding the SNES.

* If a 5 million drop marks a turn to failure, then surely the SNES's 7.09 million drop during its 3rd to 4th year marks it as a failure as well.
* If the Wii's decline by 43% in its 5th year from its 3rd year marks a failure, then certainly the 59% from the SNES's 3rd to 4th years marks a far greater failure.

From all of this we can deduce one of two possibilities: if the Wii failed in its 5th year then the SNES certainly failed in its 4th year, OR, if the SNES didn't fail in its 4th year, then the Wii didn't fail until its 7th year or later.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

Otter said:
curl-6 said:

There is no need for a "Switch Pro", and no need for a Switch successor before 2023 at the earliest.

The market is clearly happy with the level of power the Switch offers. Graphics aren't what people are buying it for, nor are AAA multiplats, so the idea that it needs to be stronger and get PS5/Scarlet ports to stay relevant is simply wrong.

4 years at the earliest??

The history of them spending 7 years one one handheld no longer makes sense, the biggest reason for that was software support and vastly different hardware with unique USPs. Nintendo has hit gold with the Switch, the Switch 2 will most likely just be a better version of the 1st, so why wait til 2023? Its not like they sell hardware at loss, they dont have to wait to recoup their losses before they start bleeding again. The truth in the past they would of had to decide which platform to support or rebuild games from the ground up for different very didfferent hardware. In the modern age thats obviously not happening and they could easily support a Switch and Switch 2 simultaneously, whilst rejuvenating interest in the brand and software support.

I  think some of you forget how quickly Nintendo consoles fall in sales in their late life as well as forgetting the revenue potential of having 3rd party games sell on your platform. Its not about chasing PS5 and X4, its about offering the relevant hardware when your audience demands it and for the first time in decades actually being viable as most a primary platform for most gamers.

The timing of the Switch 2 should be a calculated meassurement of demand in the market, new financial opportunities and an affordable technological leap to enable those opportunities. I dont know when that will be but I think Ninty is just a few months from burning through all their best sellers with hardware which is already presenting limitations and shortfalls both for consumers and for developers. We shouldnt assume Nintendo will wait until the Switch stops selling or set a rigid length of time for which it considers a generation.

I agree about Switch Pro being unless though. Ultimately if they offer a more power system it shouldnt just be to fix a games framerate or hit 1080p, but to offer a whole new promising future of new nintendo and third party games.

The "at the earliest" bit was probably unnecessary, as 2024 or later would be a bit too long IMO, but I stand by it not needing a successor before 2023.

Switch is in a better position for long term momentum than almost all prior Nintendo systems as it won't have the problem of their first party support being spread thin across multiple concurrent platforms (like how the 3DS and Wii U drained Wii's software support from 2011) and it has a monopoly over its niche in the market and indeed over the portable space now that Sony has raised the white flag over the Vita's grave.

As far as third party goes, yeah, it's not gonna be sharing AAA blockbusters with PS5 and Scarlet, but it doesn't need to; it's still going to get the kind of AA Japanese titles the 3DS had, plus indies and exclusive deals like Astral Chain, Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3, Daemon x Machina, Bayonetta, Shin Megami Tensei V, etc. 

The 3DS got 6 years, and the Switch is on track to outpace the 3DS considerably, why cut a wildly successful platform short of its full potential?

Last edited by curl-6 - on 18 July 2019

I am disappointed that the Lite and this are likely going to be used to put a floor under the Switch's price, but I have to say this is a really fair way to do upgrades.

A portable only affordable option for those who want it, and incremental improvements to the mainstream model that don't increase the price, make existing owners feel like they have been screwed or have any other major drawbacks.



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