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Forums - Politics Discussion - EU Bans Subsidies on Palm Oil as a Biofuel

Darwinianevolution on 16 July 2019
Bofferbrauer2 said:
Darwinianevolution said:
Everything is a double edge sword at this point. This is just another blind move by the EU, increasing the dependence on other "bad looking" energy sources. Europe has little to no native energy sources, what are we doing banning them and putting so many obstacles?

Fossil fuels? You are polluting the atmosphere by burning them.
Nuclear energy? Beware of the dangers of radiation.
Solar and wind energy? Not nearly reliable/affordable enough to be mass produced.
Biofuel? Not efficient enough, plus it needs to burn stuff that usually comes from the wild.
Thermal and tide energy? Wayyyy to regional to be applicable elsewhere.

Plus, it's always the countries that pollute the least already the ones that keep doing this stuff. I get that's the point, they pollute the least because they are the ones taking the hardest stances against contamination, but I can't help but be somewhat weary of that, especialy when China, India and a ton of developing countries need to develop their industry, and as long as they are the ones carrying with the bulk of industrial production in the world, nothing is going to change.

Europe is producing tons of oils for Biofuels. Most Maize (corn) and Rapeseed (canola) plantations throughout Europe are for the sole purpose of fuels. Gas already has 20% of them, Diesel also above 10%.

Also, you're putting everything on the EU while the decisions to ban Fossil and nuclear came from the individual countries, not per EU directive. Also keep in mind that Europe is producing less power now simply because Europe needs less power than it did 10 years ago (electricity consumption peaked in 2008), hence why taking so many old power plants off the grid ain't too problematic and getting replaced with renewable energies. It's slowly going up again since 2015, possibly due to the rise of electric cars.

About the bolded part: Then why is it the single largest part of the European electricity production since 2014, replacing both coal/lignite and nuclear (it went from 3rd to 1st) on the top spot?

In 2016, 29% of the European electricity production is from renewable sources, followed by 26% from nuclear. And while some countries vowed to get out of nuclear energy after Fukushima, others didn't and actually are expanding their nuclear power capacities. France, Finland and Slovakia are building nuclear power plants, and most of the eastern European countries are planning to extend their capacity of nuclear power production at a later point should it become necessary. Italy was one of the countries where the electricity consumption was receding the most, so cutting their nuclear reactors was also about rebalancing their power consumption to avoid overloading the grid.

With cutting fossil more and more out of the mix, the amount of CO2 produced per kWh is also dropping nicely. In 1990, that value was at over 520 g/kWh, while in 2016, it was all the way down to 295 g/kWh, so almost half of the amount per kWh than 30 years prior.

And I guess that with thermal you actually meant geothermal. But yeah, those two, just like power generated from dams, are very dependent on location and thus don't have much room for improvement. But as I just explained, it doesn't have to.

Source for the numbers? I'm not doubting this, I just genuinely didn't know about the exact numbers.



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Bofferbrauer2 on 16 July 2019
Darwinianevolution said:
Bofferbrauer2 said:

Europe is producing tons of oils for Biofuels. Most Maize (corn) and Rapeseed (canola) plantations throughout Europe are for the sole purpose of fuels. Gas already has 20% of them, Diesel also above 10%.

Also, you're putting everything on the EU while the decisions to ban Fossil and nuclear came from the individual countries, not per EU directive. Also keep in mind that Europe is producing less power now simply because Europe needs less power than it did 10 years ago (electricity consumption peaked in 2008), hence why taking so many old power plants off the grid ain't too problematic and getting replaced with renewable energies. It's slowly going up again since 2015, possibly due to the rise of electric cars.

About the bolded part: Then why is it the single largest part of the European electricity production since 2014, replacing both coal/lignite and nuclear (it went from 3rd to 1st) on the top spot?

In 2016, 29% of the European electricity production is from renewable sources, followed by 26% from nuclear. And while some countries vowed to get out of nuclear energy after Fukushima, others didn't and actually are expanding their nuclear power capacities. France, Finland and Slovakia are building nuclear power plants, and most of the eastern European countries are planning to extend their capacity of nuclear power production at a later point should it become necessary. Italy was one of the countries where the electricity consumption was receding the most, so cutting their nuclear reactors was also about rebalancing their power consumption to avoid overloading the grid.

With cutting fossil more and more out of the mix, the amount of CO2 produced per kWh is also dropping nicely. In 1990, that value was at over 520 g/kWh, while in 2016, it was all the way down to 295 g/kWh, so almost half of the amount per kWh than 30 years prior.

And I guess that with thermal you actually meant geothermal. But yeah, those two, just like power generated from dams, are very dependent on location and thus don't have much room for improvement. But as I just explained, it doesn't have to.

Source for the numbers? I'm not doubting this, I just genuinely didn't know about the exact numbers.

Here: https://www.eea.europa.eu/data-and-maps/indicators/overview-of-the-electricity-production-2/assessment-4



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haxxiy on 16 July 2019

Deforestation and loss of biodiversity is far worse, long term, than a few more years of coal and gas. Good riddance.



 

 

 

 

 

JRPGfan on 16 July 2019

In denmark we get around 30% of our energy from renewable sources (wind/solar/water(waves)).
The goal for 2020 is to reach around 50% (though its looking like we wont reach quite that).

Still we build tons of wind mills, at some point Im sure more than half of our energy will be from renewable sources.