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The Stagnant Working Class

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tsogud said:
Snoopy said:

Then stop voting for parties AKA the Democrat party that wants to increase the government's power. Private charities are great because there is a lot to choose from and since they are nonprofit, we know most of our money is going to a good cause instead of the man in the middle aka the government. Also, we can help people like our families or even strangers without private charities. 

We got that technology mostly due to private companies and not the government. The only exception when the government help us with technology and made our lives better is usually through military/defense spending. Which is why I don't mind it as much unless we go to useless wars or pay for useless things.

You know you can be for multiple things at once right? Being a progressive I'm for progressive policies, including the one's I mentioned above, which require government intervention and I'm also for getting money out of politics because I know getting those policies that I and the people want enacted, will be next to impossible to achieve with the current corrupted way that money can easily influence those in the political sector. I'm not against government, I'm against corrupted government.

The Republican party is not the party you want to vote for if you want to decrease the governments involvement. Republicans literally want the government to intervene between women and their doctors, that's not small government that's big government.

I'm not arguing where we got are technology from and frankly I didn't bring that point up because it's irrelevant. The government isn't really there to innovate and make scientific discoveries. Technology is a product of a society working together and building upon collective knowledge to better the entire population. Sounds a little "socialist" if you ask me.

Republicans, in general, want a smaller government and believe the role of the government is to protect our rights and nothing else. Roe vs Wade already passed and you can get an abortion in most states. The argument is they want to protect an "innocent baby's life". It's a bit of a gray area. I don't mind abortions personally unless it's way late in the cycle such as 36 weeks. Not to get off subject, I do think the government should be interfering with some of these states that think it is okay to kill a baby after it is born. That is just messed up and shouldn't be a Republican/Democrat thing at that point.

Military protection isn't socialism at all. It is something we need to protect our rights. The technology is just a great benefits thanks to military spending. Which is why i don't mind it.



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the-pi-guy said:

Yes, because the explanation that you put forth and mine are radically different that there are no similarities whatsoever.  

Your explanation doesn't seem to understand what it's about, instead you went on to complain about how child labor was around during the first portion and the techs shown were out of time for the working (not middle) class even though there weren't any time stamps on any of them.

You get a small bit about it in your second post (your first post didn't address the video's point at all) but you're still coaching it in terms of being defensive instead of just admitting that the basic point is correct.

Literally, the whole first page went by without anyone except thismeintiel of all people actually addressing the point of the video.



Mostly because the point of the video is silly. A process showing improvement isn't indicative of an optimal process. Correlation doesn't necessary equate to causality.



The class that benefited most from capitalism is the working class.

Going from needing to work 16h a day just to eat to 8h and have plenty of luxure is a great bonus



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Snoopy said:
tsogud said:

You know you can be for multiple things at once right? Being a progressive I'm for progressive policies, including the one's I mentioned above, which require government intervention and I'm also for getting money out of politics because I know getting those policies that I and the people want enacted, will be next to impossible to achieve with the current corrupted way that money can easily influence those in the political sector. I'm not against government, I'm against corrupted government.

The Republican party is not the party you want to vote for if you want to decrease the governments involvement. Republicans literally want the government to intervene between women and their doctors, that's not small government that's big government.

I'm not arguing where we got are technology from and frankly I didn't bring that point up because it's irrelevant. The government isn't really there to innovate and make scientific discoveries. Technology is a product of a society working together and building upon collective knowledge to better the entire population. Sounds a little "socialist" if you ask me.

Republicans, in general, want a smaller government and believe the role of the government is to protect our rights and nothing else. Roe vs Wade already passed and you can get an abortion in most states. The argument is they want to protect an "innocent baby's life". It's a bit of a gray area. I don't mind abortions personally unless it's way late in the cycle such as 36 weeks. Not to get off subject, I do think the government should be interfering with some of these states that think it is okay to kill a baby after it is born. That is just messed up and shouldn't be a Republican/Democrat thing at that point.

Military protection isn't socialism at all. It is something we need to protect our rights. The technology is just a great benefits thanks to military spending. Which is why i don't mind it.

What??? Where are you getting this info? Not one state thinks it's okay to kill a baby after it's born. And late abortions aren't even legal.

So you don't mind the government interfering if you determine the situation is "messed up" according to what you've said. Well I agree, I think it's "messed up" that so many Americans can't afford healthcare or education or housing. The government should step in and create a safety net because what is going on is "messed up."

The military is a socialism. They have free food, healthcare, and education all paid for by our taxes and orchestrated by our government. I agree it is something we need but let's not pretend it isn't a social institution. Here are a couple of articles on the matter.



 

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Snoopy said:

That's why we don't support those charities and find another one to support. That's the great thing about competition. Look how Xbox one dropped its price, bought more studios, created the most powerful console and restructure after people spoke up. Same thing with ps3. We can't really choose another federal government. Republicans and Democrats only support welfare because it gives them votes depending where they are running. Republicans tend to support limited welfare but won't flat out cut it because it is career suicide in some regions.

>competition

Yes, competition is great.  But there are instances where competition doesn't work.  

A lot of big companies actively avoid competition, because two companies taking up different areas is more profitably than competing with each other in the same areas.  

Competition working requires there being a choice.  A lot of companies go out of their way to ensure they are the only choice.  

>We can't really choose another federal government

Of course we can.  We choose by voting.  

>Republicans and Democrats only support welfare because it gives them votes

Spoken like someone who has never experienced the great depression.  I haven't either, but when you haven't seen someone legitimately need welfare, it's a lot easier to say that it's only done to get votes.  

Our country is pretty spoiled.  No one has any idea what the world was like before government welfare anymore.  

Snoopy said:

The biggest achievements in Science and health care came from the private sector. The only time Government has ever helped us greatly is with defense spending because not only do we need protection but a lot of the technology we take for granted such as the internet, GPS, microwaves, commercial flight, etc can be traced back to defense/military spending.

False.  

https://www.latimes.com/health/la-xpm-2011-feb-10-la-heb-drug-development-taxpayers-20110210-story.html

"The NIH was responsible for 22 of the drugs on that list, and the University of California system came in second with 11."

NIH funding in general went toward another 200 other drugs in the past few decades.  

Tons of research has been done by federally funded schools, and other government institutes.  

Snoopy said:

A lot of Americans do get health care, what are you talking about. Hell, you can be an illegal immigrant and we will still help you. Almost no one is going to let someone bleed out or die on the streets.

You're talking about emergency care.  That doesn't cover most of healthcare.  

Snoopy said:

Making health care free makes it where people go to the hospital for the most trivial BS. Not to mention the doctors are in a hurry and more prone to make mistakes.

Other countries have better health results than we do. 

Snoopy said:

And it really isn't more complicated where you can compare democrat states against Republican states and see a huge difference in cost.

Isn't it?  Red states have a lower cost of living, but they are also on average poorer.  

The reasons why are complicated.  The reasons why Red states cost less than blue states are complicated.  

Democrats for example aren't a monolithic block where they all agree about policy.  Different democrats support different things.  

California has had several Republican governors.  In fact most of the California's Governors in the past 60 years have been Republican.



DonFerrari said:
The class that benefited most from capitalism is the working class.

Going from needing to work 16h a day just to eat to 8h and have plenty of luxure is a great bonus

Labor laws were a byproduct of government regulation....  



Snoopy said:

Not true, only certain aspects are better. For example, Canadians have a longer wait time and way higher taxes. Not to mention the cost for basic commodities in Canada is a lot more expensive than America's products. This is all thanks to government interference. When the U.S. government got out of certain health care aspects such as lasik eye surgery the cost went way down.

In Australia I can walk into any hospital and be seen almost instantly, for free.
Our healthcare is significantly cheaper... And we get far far far better quality care, you literally don't know what you are missing out on.

The American health system is old, inefficient, expensive and ineffective from top-to-bottom... I would rather be ill in Australia than the USA.

Snoopy said:

We can have a great safety net through private charities and we can have a lot more job opportunities and reduce artificial inflation by getting the government out of our business. Most of the big corporations that are corrupt are helped by the federal government. The biggest example is the pharmaceutical companies. It's one of the biggest reason why medical care is so expensive. They pretty much closed out all outside competition thanks to the government. Historically, there hasn't been a better time to live. Yes, we do have issues, but it pales in comparison to the past. We are living better than most past kings/ royal familes for god sakes.

Private Charities can also drive up inefficiencies as they try and make an extra buck for their own ends... Plus many charities tend to be religious in nature, lets remove religion from the equation wherever possible, freedom from religion, right?

The big pharmaceutical companies are just one aspect of your health systems inefficiencies, our Government dictates the pricing on medicine, companies still make a profit, patients get cheap medication... Everyone goes home happy.
And if you are worried it will cease innovation in the medicine field, it doesn't happen. - Plus the Government will invest in R&D anyway which reduces costs and keeps innovation happening.

The flip side is, you still get pharmaceutical companies competing against each other, thus capitalism is still at work.

Years ago there was a movement by some political parties here to almost "Americanize" parts of our healthcare system... It was a political shit storm... For good reason as it would be a regression on all fronts.
Fact is the vast majority of the western world have proven that a universal healthcare system is the way forward, the way to go to provide higher quality and cheaper care.

Snoopy said:

Making health care free makes it where people go to the hospital for the most trivial BS. Not to mention the doctors are in a hurry and more prone to make mistakes.

Doesn't happen... This is just baseless scaremongering.

Nurses and doctors will do a quick assessment of a patient to gauge how urgent a patients needs are and go from there... Often if it's just a small issue, they will tell them to go to a private clinic instead. (We have one next to the hospital here.)

DonFerrari said:
The class that benefited most from capitalism is the working class.

Going from needing to work 16h a day just to eat to 8h and have plenty of luxure is a great bonus

It was mostly left-wing socialist "unions" who made the push to 8 hour work days...
Socialism, Capitalism... None of it is intrinsically a bad thing, most western nations have found a really good balance between the two and have made some great strides. (I.E. Large swathes of Europe and Oceania.)

It's when either gets taken to far/extreme that issues really start to crop up as there are Pro's and Con's to each approach.



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NightlyPoe said:

Your explanation doesn't seem to understand what it's about, instead you went on to complain about how child labor was around during the first portion and the techs shown were out of time for the working (not middle) class even though there weren't any time stamps on any of them.

My first post wasn't an explanation.  It was a criticism of the video.  

Correct there are no time stamps in the video.  But you can line up the representation of technology.  And even if you disagree, the technology wasn't the point of my criticism.  

My first post is centered around:

A.)  That the person who makes the complaints in the video is a small minority.  I bring this up, because some right wingers tend to think of liberals being socialists (the creator of the YouTube channel is no exception), despite that being very incorrect.

B.)  That good things can still be criticized.  

In other words, just because people's lives are constantly improving doesn't mean that the mechanism behind that improvement can't be criticized.  

NightlyPoe said:

You get a small bit about it in your second post (your first post didn't address the video's point at all) but you're still coaching it in terms of being defensive instead of just admitting that the basic point is correct.

Literally, the whole first page went by without anyone except thismeintiel of all people actually addressing the point of the video.

FreedomToons tends to make videos mocking liberals, or rather what they think liberals are.  This one is another such video, you can tell because it starts by someone criticizing capitalism.  

If the video didn't start out that way, and it wasn't made by freedomtoons, your slightly different explanation would make more sense.