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The Stagnant Working Class

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Snoopy said:
the-pi-guy said:

Everybody understands the video is poking fun at the "hypocrisy" of the "liberals" who complain about capitalism while benefitting from the progress, the technological achievements and the wealth that it has given them.  

Just because someone disagrees with the conclusions of the videos, doesn't mean they don't understand that it's trying to make that point.  

Other countries have more government involvement with healthcare for one, with far better results and at far lower cost. 

Government involvement isn't inherently good or inherently bad, it's up to the policies that the government sets up. 

Not true, only certain aspects are better. For example, Canadians have a longer wait time and way higher taxes. Not to mention the cost for basic commodities in Canada is a lot more expensive than America's products. This is all thanks to government interference. When the U.S. government got out of certain health care aspects such as lasik eye surgery the cost went way down.

We're spending more per capita on healthcare. All this quibbling about higher taxes and how basic commodities are more expensive is meaningless because as a total amount of money (both public and private spending) we are spending far more than any other country. 

In fact, we spend more on healthcare just in the public sector (like taxes) than Canada already. After which the private spending on top of that gets us to almost double what Canada spends. 

https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/health-spending-u-s-compare-countries/#item-u-s-similar-public-spending-private-sector-spending-triple-comparable-countries



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NightlyPoe said:

Then why are you still misunderstanding it?

Yes, because the explanation that you put forth and mine are radically different that there are no similarities whatsoever.  

"Everybody understands the video is poking fun at the "hypocrisy" of the middle class "liberals" who complain about capitalism while benefitting from the progress, the technological achievements and the wealth that it has given them."

and this:

NightlyPoe said:

That the working class is not keeping up while showing that the conditions are constantly improving.  People don't see how their lives are improving at such a rapid rate.

Yes this is basically the explanation I gave minus the people complaining about capitalism.  Which yes, the video is suggesting people are complaining about capitalism while seeing their lives improve.  

The video literally starts out with:
"Absurd this capitalist system is"

"I mean honestly in what world is a system like this ethical."  



Snoopy said:

Not true, only certain aspects are better. For example, Canadians have a longer wait time and way higher taxes. Not to mention the cost for basic commodities in Canada is a lot more expensive than America's products. This is all thanks to government interference. When the U.S. government got out of certain health care aspects such as lasik eye surgery the cost went way down.

>wait times

Wait times are complicated to measure.  For one thing in the US a lot of people don't go at all.  Those people don't get counted in the average wait time.  

Another thing is wait times for different things differ.  

>higher taxes

Meaningless if you don't include the difference in healthcare costs.  

>government interference

Some commodities cost less because they get made in the US.  So no it's not "all thanks to government interference".  It's a complicated matter.  



tsogud said:
Snoopy said:

We can have a great safety net through private charities and we can have a lot more job opportunities and reduce artificial inflation by getting the government out of our business. Most of the big corporations that are corrupt are helped by the federal government. The biggest example is the pharmaceutical companies. It's one of the biggest reason why medical care is so expensive. They pretty much closed out all outside competition thanks to the government. Historically, there hasn't been a better time to live. Yes, we do have issues, but it pales in comparison to the past. We are living better than most past kings/ royal families for god sakes.

Yeah, I agree. The government is corrupt because most of the politicians have their pockets lined with money from Big Pharma and big corporations. Until we get money out of our politics there will be no change, these groups will continue to buy our politicians and set down laws that will only benefit them and the groups that pay them. That's the biggest issue that's facing the American people and one I'm fighting against.

I disagree with solely relying on private charities to provide a safety net such as healthcare and affordable housing and also free education. It doesn't work like that.

Obviously we as a society are far better than we were in the past thanks to modern technology, that's just common sense, no one's arguing that. Just because we are better than past peoples doesn't mean we're at our pinnacle and we shouldn't advance to include programs and policies to give everyone a social safety net. That's what happens in civil societies, we take care of the most vulnerable and give them a helping hand.

Then stop voting for parties AKA the Democrat party that wants to increase the government's power. Private charities are great because there is a lot to choose from and since they are nonprofit, we know most of our money is going to a good cause instead of the man in the middle aka the government. Also, we can help people like our families or even strangers without private charities. 

We got that technology mostly due to private companies and not the government. The only exception when the government help us with technology and made our lives better is usually through military/defense spending. Which is why I don't mind it as much unless we go to useless wars or pay for useless things.



the-pi-guy said:
Snoopy said:

Not true, only certain aspects are better. For example, Canadians have a longer wait time and way higher taxes. Not to mention the cost for basic commodities in Canada is a lot more expensive than America's products. This is all thanks to government interference. When the U.S. government got out of certain health care aspects such as lasik eye surgery the cost went way down.

>wait times

Wait times are complicated to measure.  For one thing in the US a lot of people don't go at all.  Those people don't get counted in the average wait time.  

Another thing is wait times for different things differ.  

>higher taxes

Meaningless if you don't include the difference in healthcare costs.  

>government interference

Some commodities cost less because they get made in the US.  So no it's not "all thanks to government interference".  It's a complicated matter.  

> wait time

No it isn't, it's been proven Canadians have to wait a long time for health care services.

> higher taxes

No, it isn't meaningless. Canada pay more in taxes and commodities. Over the long run, they would pay a lot more than Americans.

 There are places in America where the cost of basic commodities is crazy high such as California because they are run by Democrats who support big government. That's why so many Californians are going to Republican states like Texas and Alabama. 



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Snoopy said:

Then stop voting for parties AKA the Democrat party that wants to increase the government's power. Private charities are great because there is a lot to choose from and since they are nonprofit, we know most of our money is going to a good cause instead of the man in the middle aka the government. Also, we can help people like our families or even strangers without private charities. 

Not really...  

There are plenty of charities where the CEO is making well over a million dollars.  Not exactly "cutting out the middleman".

Besides that, private charities + families helping out doesn't help enough.  There's a reason why Republicans and Democrats both have supported various types of welfare.  

The problem is that people don't realize how much those programs help.  

Snoopy said:

We got that technology mostly due to private companies and not the government. The only exception when the government help us with technology and made our lives better is usually through military/defense spending. Which is why I don't mind it as much unless we go to useless wars or pay for useless things.

The government spends billions of dollars researching for healthcare, space, and tons of other stuff.  

A lot of the drugs for example that private companies are making billions off of, actually came from the government.  



Snoopy said:

> wait time

No it isn't, it's been proven Canadians have to wait a long time for health care services.

> higher taxes

No, it isn't meaningless. Canada pay more in taxes and commodities. Over the long run, they would pay a lot more than Americans.

 There are places in America where the cost of basic commodities is crazy high such as California because they are run by Democrats who support big government.

>No it isn't, it's been proven Canadians have to wait a long time for health care services.

Again, part of the reason you can come to that conclusion is because a lot of Americans don't get healthcare.  

Think of it like a grocery store where only 10 people shop, and trying to compare it to a smaller grocery store where 20 people shop.  Which do you think will have bigger waiting times?  

>There are places in America where the cost of basic commodities is crazy high such as California because they are run by Democrats who support big government.

Again these issues are a vastly more complicated than Democrats = big government= expensive and Republicans = small government = cheap.  



the-pi-guy said:
Snoopy said:

Then stop voting for parties AKA the Democrat party that wants to increase the government's power. Private charities are great because there is a lot to choose from and since they are nonprofit, we know most of our money is going to a good cause instead of the man in the middle aka the government. Also, we can help people like our families or even strangers without private charities. 

Not really...  

There are plenty of charities where the CEO is making well over a million dollars.  Not exactly "cutting out the middleman".

Besides that, private charities + families helping out doesn't help enough.  There's a reason why Republicans and Democrats both have supported various types of welfare.  

The problem is that people don't realize how much those programs help.  

Snoopy said:

We got that technology mostly due to private companies and not the government. The only exception when the government help us with technology and made our lives better is usually through military/defense spending. Which is why I don't mind it as much unless we go to useless wars or pay for useless things.

The government spends billions of dollars researching for healthcare, space, and tons of other stuff.  

A lot of the drugs for example that private companies are making billions off of, actually came from the government.  

That's why we don't support those charities and find another one to support. That's the great thing about competition. Look how Xbox one dropped its price, bought more studios, created the most powerful console and restructure after people spoke up. Same thing with ps3. We can't really choose another federal government. Republicans and Democrats only support welfare because it gives them votes depending where they are running. Republicans tend to support limited welfare but won't flat out cut it because it is career suicide in some regions.

The biggest achievements in Science and health care came from the private sector. The only time Government has ever helped us greatly is with defense spending because not only do we need protection but a lot of the technology we take for granted such as the internet, GPS, microwaves, commercial flight, etc can be traced back to defense/military spending.



the-pi-guy said:
Snoopy said:

> wait time

No it isn't, it's been proven Canadians have to wait a long time for health care services.

> higher taxes

No, it isn't meaningless. Canada pay more in taxes and commodities. Over the long run, they would pay a lot more than Americans.

 There are places in America where the cost of basic commodities is crazy high such as California because they are run by Democrats who support big government.

>No it isn't, it's been proven Canadians have to wait a long time for health care services.

Again, part of the reason you can come to that conclusion is because a lot of Americans don't get healthcare.  

Think of it like a grocery store where only 10 people shop, and trying to compare it to a smaller grocery store where 20 people shop.  Which do you think will have bigger waiting times?  

>There are places in America where the cost of basic commodities is crazy high such as California because they are run by Democrats who support big government.

Again these issues are a vastly more complicated than Democrats = big government= expensive and Republicans = small government = cheap.  

A lot of Americans do get health care, what are you talking about. Hell, you can be an illegal immigrant and we will still help you. Almost no one is going to let someone bleed out or die on the streets.

Making health care free makes it where people go to the hospital for the most trivial BS. Not to mention the doctors are in a hurry and more prone to make mistakes.

And it really isn't more complicated where you can compare democrat states against Republican states and see a huge difference in cost.



Snoopy said:
tsogud said:

Yeah, I agree. The government is corrupt because most of the politicians have their pockets lined with money from Big Pharma and big corporations. Until we get money out of our politics there will be no change, these groups will continue to buy our politicians and set down laws that will only benefit them and the groups that pay them. That's the biggest issue that's facing the American people and one I'm fighting against.

I disagree with solely relying on private charities to provide a safety net such as healthcare and affordable housing and also free education. It doesn't work like that.

Obviously we as a society are far better than we were in the past thanks to modern technology, that's just common sense, no one's arguing that. Just because we are better than past peoples doesn't mean we're at our pinnacle and we shouldn't advance to include programs and policies to give everyone a social safety net. That's what happens in civil societies, we take care of the most vulnerable and give them a helping hand.

Then stop voting for parties AKA the Democrat party that wants to increase the government's power. Private charities are great because there is a lot to choose from and since they are nonprofit, we know most of our money is going to a good cause instead of the man in the middle aka the government. Also, we can help people like our families or even strangers without private charities. 

We got that technology mostly due to private companies and not the government. The only exception when the government help us with technology and made our lives better is usually through military/defense spending. Which is why I don't mind it as much unless we go to useless wars or pay for useless things.

You know you can be for multiple things at once right? Being a progressive I'm for progressive policies, including the one's I mentioned above, which require government intervention and I'm also for getting money out of politics because I know getting those policies that I and the people want enacted, will be next to impossible to achieve with the current corrupted way that money can easily influence those in the political sector. I'm not against government, I'm against corrupted government.

The Republican party is not the party you want to vote for if you want to decrease the governments involvement. Republicans literally want the government to intervene between women and their doctors, that's not small government that's big government.

I'm not arguing where we got are technology from and frankly I didn't bring that point up because it's irrelevant. The government isn't really there to innovate and make scientific discoveries. Technology is a product of a society working together and building upon collective knowledge to better the entire population. Sounds a little "socialist" if you ask me.