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The Stagnant Working Class

Forums - Politics Discussion - The Stagnant Working Class

thismeintiel said:
So true. We have people who technically qualify as poor in our country walking around with cell phones, driving used cars that wouldn't even exist save for the people who buy them new, and have at least one nice TV in the home. A far stretch from the poor you will find in 3rd world countries.

Finally, someone came at least close to figuring out the video's point.



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NightlyPoe said:
thismeintiel said:
So true. We have people who technically qualify as poor in our country walking around with cell phones, driving used cars that wouldn't even exist save for the people who buy them new, and have at least one nice TV in the home. A far stretch from the poor you will find in 3rd world countries.

Finally, someone came at least close to figuring out the video's point.

People seem to also ignore the ending of the cartoon. Where the character complained about how we should have the government more involved in everything just as we do now with Education and Health care. The most expensive services in America that a lot of time are inadequate, to say the least.



A group of people being worse off doesn't equate to something else being ok. Indentured servants aren't ok, because slavery was worse.



LuccaCardoso1 said:
Whoa, what a groundbreaking idea this is.

I don't think anyone is advocating for the end of capitalism. At least not any relevant group. What people are actually advocating for is a more equal capitalism. A capitalism where the top 1% doesn't hold 50% of the wealth. A capitalism where people don't die because they made the mistake of getting sick and not being able to pay for the cure. A capitalism where everyone can get well-educated and a capitalism where we don't destroy the planet we live in. A capitalism where you don't get punished for being something you didn't choose to be.

The phrase "capitalism made our lives better" is also only true for portion of the population. I bet the people who have to skip meals because they don't have money to buy them don't agree with that. Neither do the people who were forced into dictatorships because another country wanted cheap oil.

I mean, it's great that the middle class in the United States has access to healthcare, education and comfort. What these people you criticize are trying to do is granting that for every human being.

Pretty much this.

Capitalism in and of itself isn't bad but like all political ideologies it can be corrupted, specifically due to greed. What most people are advocating for is a fair capitalistic society where everyone has a safety net of sorts and where big corporations are put in check and their profits aren't put before the peoples' interests.

Just because things are good for an individual and as a society we are able to advance, like what was shown in the video, doesn't mean that what's going on is okay.



 

tsogud said:
LuccaCardoso1 said:
Whoa, what a groundbreaking idea this is.

I don't think anyone is advocating for the end of capitalism. At least not any relevant group. What people are actually advocating for is a more equal capitalism. A capitalism where the top 1% doesn't hold 50% of the wealth. A capitalism where people don't die because they made the mistake of getting sick and not being able to pay for the cure. A capitalism where everyone can get well-educated and a capitalism where we don't destroy the planet we live in. A capitalism where you don't get punished for being something you didn't choose to be.

The phrase "capitalism made our lives better" is also only true for portion of the population. I bet the people who have to skip meals because they don't have money to buy them don't agree with that. Neither do the people who were forced into dictatorships because another country wanted cheap oil.

I mean, it's great that the middle class in the United States has access to healthcare, education and comfort. What these people you criticize are trying to do is granting that for every human being.

Pretty much this.

Capitalism in and of itself isn't bad but like all political ideologies it can be corrupted, specifically due to greed. What most people are advocating for is a fair capitalistic society where everyone has a safety net of sorts and where big corporations are put in check and their profits aren't put before the peoples' interests.

Just because things are good for an individual and as a society we are able to advance, like what was shown in the video, doesn't mean that what's going on is okay.

We can have a great safety net through private charities and we can have a lot more job opportunities and reduce artificial inflation by getting the government out of our business. Most of the big corporations that are corrupt are helped by the federal government. The biggest example is the pharmaceutical companies. It's one of the biggest reason why medical care is so expensive. They pretty much closed out all outside competition thanks to the government. Historically, there hasn't been a better time to live. Yes, we do have issues, but it pales in comparison to the past. We are living better than most past kings/ royal familes for god sakes.



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NightlyPoe said:

Finally, someone came at least close to figuring out the video's point.

Everybody understands the video is poking fun at the "hypocrisy" of the "liberals" who complain about capitalism while benefitting from the progress, the technological achievements and the wealth that it has given them.  

Just because someone disagrees with the conclusions of the videos, doesn't mean they don't understand that it's trying to make that point.  

Snoopy said:

People seem to also ignore the ending of the cartoon. Where the character complained about how we should have the government more involved in everything just as we do now with Education and Health care. The most expensive services in America that a lot of time are inadequate, to say the least.

Other countries have more government involvement with healthcare for one, with far better results and at far lower cost. 

Government involvement isn't inherently good or inherently bad, it's up to the policies that the government sets up. 



Snoopy said:
NightlyPoe said:

Finally, someone came at least close to figuring out the video's point.

People seem to also ignore the ending of the cartoon. Where the character complained about how we should have the government more involved in everything just as we do now with Education and Health care. The most expensive services in America that a lot of time are inadequate, to say the least.

Seemed not worth the discussion to me. I mean it was a pretty obvious conclusion to a Dave Rubin wet dream. "government is bad at everything we should just let corporations take care of it because it'll get better due to competition, drones, blah blah blah". So weird that some people think there are only two speeds: full government take over of all industries, or corporate anarchism where government's only place is military (if that). Seems pretty obvious that neither government nor corporations are all good or bad and both have their place. Education and healthcare are some of those things where markets break down either because we want children to have equal access to education as a country to benefit our overall citizenry, or because when someone needs healthcare you aren't able to (or at least in the mindset to) shop around for who could save your life the cheapest. 



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Snoopy said:
tsogud said:

Pretty much this.

Capitalism in and of itself isn't bad but like all political ideologies it can be corrupted, specifically due to greed. What most people are advocating for is a fair capitalistic society where everyone has a safety net of sorts and where big corporations are put in check and their profits aren't put before the peoples' interests.

Just because things are good for an individual and as a society we are able to advance, like what was shown in the video, doesn't mean that what's going on is okay.

We can have a great safety net through private charities and we can have a lot more job opportunities and reduce artificial inflation by getting the government out of our business. Most of the big corporations that are corrupt are helped by the federal government. The biggest example is the pharmaceutical companies. It's one of the biggest reason why medical care is so expensive. They pretty much closed out all outside competition thanks to the government. Historically, there hasn't been a better time to live. Yes, we do have issues, but it pales in comparison to the past. We are living better than most past kings/ royal familes for god sakes.

Yeah, I agree. The government is corrupt because most of the politicians have their pockets lined with money from Big Pharma and big corporations. Until we get money out of our politics there will be no change, these groups will continue to buy our politicians and set down laws that will only benefit them and the groups that pay them. That's the biggest issue that's facing the American people and one I'm fighting against.

I disagree with solely relying on private charities to provide a safety net such as healthcare and  affordable housing and also free education. It doesn't work like that.

Obviously we as a society are far better than we were in the past thanks to modern technology, that's just common sense, no one's arguing that. Just because we are better than past peoples doesn't mean we're at our pinnacle and we shouldn't advance to include programs and policies to give everyone a social safety net. That's what happens in civil societies, we take care of the most vulnerable and give them a helping hand.

Last edited by tsogud - on 13 July 2019

 

the-pi-guy said:
NightlyPoe said:

Finally, someone came at least close to figuring out the video's point.

Everybody understands the video is poking fun at the "hypocrisy" of the "liberals" who complain about capitalism while benefitting from the progress, the technological achievements and the wealth that it has given them.  

Just because someone disagrees with the conclusions of the videos, doesn't mean they don't understand that it's trying to make that point.   

Then why are you still misunderstanding it?

Up until like the very end when it takes a couple pot shots, it's pretty much focused on what is a common complaint:  That the working class is not keeping up while showing that the conditions are constantly improving.  People don't see how their lives are improving at such a rapid rate.

That conclusion is basically correct.  I'm sure you want to add some nuance that it could be better still, but the basic point is solid.  Things are getting better and they always have been getting better.  The feeling of being "left behind", which is not necessarily a liberal idea, in fact such populism is a major factor in the Trump coalition, is, as a whole, incorrect.



the-pi-guy said:
NightlyPoe said:

Finally, someone came at least close to figuring out the video's point.

Everybody understands the video is poking fun at the "hypocrisy" of the "liberals" who complain about capitalism while benefitting from the progress, the technological achievements and the wealth that it has given them.  

Just because someone disagrees with the conclusions of the videos, doesn't mean they don't understand that it's trying to make that point.  

Snoopy said:

People seem to also ignore the ending of the cartoon. Where the character complained about how we should have the government more involved in everything just as we do now with Education and Health care. The most expensive services in America that a lot of time are inadequate, to say the least.

Other countries have more government involvement with healthcare for one, with far better results and at far lower cost. 

Government involvement isn't inherently good or inherently bad, it's up to the policies that the government sets up. 

Not true, only certain aspects are better. For example, Canadians have a longer wait time and way higher taxes. Not to mention the cost for basic commodities in Canada is a lot more expensive than America's products. This is all thanks to government interference. When the U.S. government got out of certain health care aspects such as lasik eye surgery the cost went way down.