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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Should Halo Infinite drop Xbox One and go Scarlet exclusive?

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Should it?

Yes, dump Xbone, next gen exclusive 35 42.68%
 
No, keep it cross gen with Xbone 47 57.32%
 
Total:82
DonFerrari on 01 August 2019
Mr Puggsly said:
DonFerrari said:

There is a difference between a game made for PC with even lower baseline than X1, than making a game to be focused entirely on the best X1X have to offer at 1080p30fps and then cutting to put on X1. But yes it is feasible.

My main point is something truly built to take advantage of X1X can still be scaled back, especially when much of extra power is basically just better graphics. Therefore the baseline changes.

It was hard to imagine games really built for 8th gen consoles working on Switch, but developers are accomplishing it.

If X1X is the baseline then it isn't extra power being used for better graphics. It is all that is available being used the best it can be. Then they have to cut back to X1.

What you described is when X1 is the baseline then they have extra power on X1X that they can use to better graphics. Also don't forget that you had put the X1X version in 1080p30fps so the better graphics here also wouldn't really be on resolution but other effects that would need to be totally cut out.

Plus we should assume they would devote the power budget to have the best for the bang instead of throwing a lot of resources on what isn't much gain.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

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Mr Puggsly on 01 August 2019
Pemalite said:
Mr Puggsly said:

I suspect the low end Scarlehitt died because they simply couldn't produce a Scarlett for the budget market, it just seems too ambitious. Perhaps making functional ports for X1/X1X (for a while) and pushing Xcloud makes more sense.

I don't think it was too ambitious, it wouldn't have been difficult to ditch the SSD, go with a smaller GPU, slower DRAM, smaller power supply and cooler and come in at a lower price.

I just think Microsoft didn't want developers targeting the base console and just using the more powerful console just to drive home resolution, it's a waste of hardware in the end if that is your only benefit.

Pushing XCloud does make more sense, if anyone has the gall to win the cloud-gaming wars, Microsoft has the infrastructure already in place for the most part.

Mr Puggsly said:

I'm saying GTA3 and Morrowind were impressive for different reasons. I'm not sure if anything like Morrowind was attempted for PS2. Maybe they could have created something seemingly like Morrowind, but obviously the spec disparity wouldn't allow for a direct port of Morrowind on PS2.

Agreed.

Mr Puggsly said:

Maybe you're focusing on how Halo 3 ran on 360 at launch versus now. I don't know and I'm moving on.

The frame pacing issues still exists in Halo 3 and Halo 3: ODST on the Xbox 360, it's an issue at the game engine level due to certain design choices that Bungie made, for better or worst.
Digital Foundry made those comments after the Master Chief Collection released, which was years after Halo 3 dropped on Xbox 360.

Again, I have provided the evidence needed to support my assertions on this matter, so we can pretty much agree and move on.

Mr Puggsly said:

Specs certainly matter but you're missing the point. GTAV on 7th gen specs is more impressive than most 8th gen games. Hence, better specs doesn't mean every project has the ambitions of GTAV. I'm really just saying we don't need a massive specs boost for developers to create more ambitious games per se. Frankly, making prettier games is easier than creating more ambitious or unique games.

From a rendering technical level, GTA5 isn't impressive than most 8th gen games, from a simulation level with the way assets, scripting and so on is loaded in, that is impressive.

But in order for Rockstar to achieve what it did, it had to spend allot of time and effort to pull it off on underpowered hardware... Which if they had more powerful hardware from the get-go, they wouldn't need to have spent as much time or effort in pulling off.

Mr Puggsly said:

Do you not recall I already withdrew my comment about GPU affecting load times? So why the fuck do you keep bringing it up?

Because I can.

Compromises to the storage medium and memory could impact game development for the high end model. GPU is less significant because that's mostly visual tweaks. Again, its a lot of compromise to make a lower budget Scarlett.

I think you're suggesting Halo 3 has a frame pacing thats unlike other games with obvious frame pacing issues. I'm gonna move on...

If Rockstar had better specs for GTAV's launch, then they would have just created a more ambitious game, atleast visually. They seemingly have more resources and talent than virtually any other studio.

Because I can? Good, then don't complain if I call you out on being immature. You just proved my point, it was fair criticism.



Recently Completed: 
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Mr Puggsly on 01 August 2019
DonFerrari said:
Mr Puggsly said:

My main point is something truly built to take advantage of X1X can still be scaled back, especially when much of extra power is basically just better graphics. Therefore the baseline changes.

It was hard to imagine games really built for 8th gen consoles working on Switch, but developers are accomplishing it.

If X1X is the baseline then it isn't extra power being used for better graphics. It is all that is available being used the best it can be. Then they have to cut back to X1.

What you described is when X1 is the baseline then they have extra power on X1X that they can use to better graphics. Also don't forget that you had put the X1X version in 1080p30fps so the better graphics here also wouldn't really be on resolution but other effects that would need to be totally cut out.

Plus we should assume they would devote the power budget to have the best for the bang instead of throwing a lot of resources on what isn't much gain.

This feels more like theory of what utilizing hardware really is.

A game that runs at 1080p/30 fps while fully utilizing X1X specs would have exceptional graphics or using a lot of GPU power creating a visually complex world. So again, we're just somewhere in theories.

I think graphics like assets and effects tend to be the barometer of how well console specs are being used. People mock X1X for boosting resolution instead offering higher fidelity assets and effects even if that came at 1080p/30 fps.



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DonFerrari on 01 August 2019
Mr Puggsly said:
DonFerrari said:

If X1X is the baseline then it isn't extra power being used for better graphics. It is all that is available being used the best it can be. Then they have to cut back to X1.

What you described is when X1 is the baseline then they have extra power on X1X that they can use to better graphics. Also don't forget that you had put the X1X version in 1080p30fps so the better graphics here also wouldn't really be on resolution but other effects that would need to be totally cut out.

Plus we should assume they would devote the power budget to have the best for the bang instead of throwing a lot of resources on what isn't much gain.

This feels more like theory of what utilizing hardware really is.

A game that runs at 1080p/30 fps while fully utilizing X1X specs would have exceptional graphics or using a lot of GPU power creating a visually complex world. So again, we're just somewhere in theories.

I think graphics like assets and effects tend to be the barometer of how well console specs are being used. People mock X1X for boosting resolution instead offering higher fidelity assets and effects even if that came at 1080p/30 fps.

Yes they do and rightly so. Because just increasing the pixel count is the easiest way they can use the power. But you fixed it at 1080p so that power will be used on assets and effects. And those will be cut for X1, that would make a much bigger impact than they making the X1X 4k30fps, which probably would just need cut on resolution to 1080p and some touch ups.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Mr Puggsly on 01 August 2019
DonFerrari said:
Mr Puggsly said:

This feels more like theory of what utilizing hardware really is.

A game that runs at 1080p/30 fps while fully utilizing X1X specs would have exceptional graphics or using a lot of GPU power creating a visually complex world. So again, we're just somewhere in theories.

I think graphics like assets and effects tend to be the barometer of how well console specs are being used. People mock X1X for boosting resolution instead offering higher fidelity assets and effects even if that came at 1080p/30 fps.

Yes they do and rightly so. Because just increasing the pixel count is the easiest way they can use the power. But you fixed it at 1080p so that power will be used on assets and effects. And those will be cut for X1, that would make a much bigger impact than they making the X1X 4k30fps, which probably would just need cut on resolution to 1080p and some touch ups.

Well more games could better utilize the X1's specs just by raising graphics settings closer to highest PC settings instead of resolutions. That doesent require better assets per se.

I look at BFV as an example because its crisp via dynamic 4K but has jarring pop in. Many games dont even increase texture quality on X1X even though the assets already exist for PC.

Games offering a 60 fps mode is a good use of the GPU boost. In some games the X1X gets a resolution boost, increased graphics settings, better textures and better frame rate. That was a motivator to buy a X1X.



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DonFerrari on 01 August 2019
Mr Puggsly said:
DonFerrari said:

Yes they do and rightly so. Because just increasing the pixel count is the easiest way they can use the power. But you fixed it at 1080p so that power will be used on assets and effects. And those will be cut for X1, that would make a much bigger impact than they making the X1X 4k30fps, which probably would just need cut on resolution to 1080p and some touch ups.

Well more games could better utilize the X1's specs just by raising graphics settings closer to highest PC settings instead of resolutions. That doesent require better assets per se.

I look at BFV as an example because its crisp via dynamic 4K but has jarring pop in. Many games dont even increase texture quality on X1X even though the assets already exist for PC.

Games offering a 60 fps mode is a good use of the GPU boost. In some games the X1X gets a resolution boost, increased graphics settings, better textures and better frame rate. That was a motivator to buy a X1X.

3rd parties have a tendency of going the path of least cost and also keep both versios similar/parity. So they take the easiest way that is pixel bump. Anyway Halo Infinity will release on base X1 and we will take another 3-5 years before knowing what Halo would look/play if exclusive to 9th gen.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

curl-6 on 01 August 2019

It would be interesting to see what a game would look like built from the ground up for the Xbox One X without having to run on the base model, but unfortunately we'll never know.



Pemalite on 01 August 2019
Mr Puggsly said:

Compromises to the storage medium and memory could impact game development for the high end model. GPU is less significant because that's mostly visual tweaks. Again, its a lot of compromise to make a lower budget Scarlett.

There are effects which are more memory bandwidth hungry than others, like Alpha effects. - Less bandwidth means less fillrate, so chances are you just scale back the resolution. It wouldn't be much different than the situation that we see with the base Xbox One and Xbox One X.

Yes there will be compromises with a lower-budget Scarlett. - That's kind of the entire point for a lower-cost device you know?

Mr Puggsly said:

I think you're suggesting Halo 3 has a frame pacing thats unlike other games with obvious frame pacing issues. I'm gonna move on...

Plenty of other games on Xbox 360 have frame pacing issues, you are correct. But that doesn't excuse Halo 3 from criticism where criticism is due.

Mr Puggsly said:

If Rockstar had better specs for GTAV's launch, then they would have just created a more ambitious game, atleast visually. They seemingly have more resources and talent than virtually any other studio.

They did create a more ambitious game, visually. The Xbox One, Playstation 4 and PC versions.

Mr Puggsly said:

Good, then don't complain if I call you out on being immature.

No you can't. You can stick to the rules of the forum and use common courtesy like everyone else.

curl-6 said:

It would be interesting to see what a game would look like built from the ground up for the Xbox One X without having to run on the base model, but unfortunately we'll never know.

Indeed. Same goes for the Playstation 4 Pro.

Still, there are some benefits to be had choosing these mid-gen consoles even at 1080P... The base Xbox One has the majority of it's library at 1080P or less... And more and more Playstation 4 games are sub-1080P as well these days... So there is value in the mid-gen devices even if you are running with only a 27" 1080P display.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Mr Puggsly on 02 August 2019
DonFerrari said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Well more games could better utilize the X1's specs just by raising graphics settings closer to highest PC settings instead of resolutions. That doesent require better assets per se.

I look at BFV as an example because its crisp via dynamic 4K but has jarring pop in. Many games dont even increase texture quality on X1X even though the assets already exist for PC.

Games offering a 60 fps mode is a good use of the GPU boost. In some games the X1X gets a resolution boost, increased graphics settings, better textures and better frame rate. That was a motivator to buy a X1X.

3rd parties have a tendency of going the path of least cost and also keep both versios similar/parity. So they take the easiest way that is pixel bump. Anyway Halo Infinity will release on base X1 and we will take another 3-5 years before knowing what Halo would look/play if exclusive to 9th gen.

Is including higher quality textures really significant work though? Might just be some parity BS.

I look forward to seeing a Halo built for Scarlett. But that will probably just be another Halo with even more advanced visuals.



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Mr Puggsly on 02 August 2019
Pemalite said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Compromises to the storage medium and memory could impact game development for the high end model. GPU is less significant because that's mostly visual tweaks. Again, its a lot of compromise to make a lower budget Scarlett.

There are effects which are more memory bandwidth hungry than others, like Alpha effects. - Less bandwidth means less fillrate, so chances are you just scale back the resolution. It wouldn't be much different than the situation that we see with the base Xbox One and Xbox One X.

Yes there will be compromises with a lower-budget Scarlett. - That's kind of the entire point for a lower-cost device you know?

Mr Puggsly said:

I think you're suggesting Halo 3 has a frame pacing thats unlike other games with obvious frame pacing issues. I'm gonna move on...

Plenty of other games on Xbox 360 have frame pacing issues, you are correct. But that doesn't excuse Halo 3 from criticism where criticism is due.

Mr Puggsly said:

If Rockstar had better specs for GTAV's launch, then they would have just created a more ambitious game, atleast visually. They seemingly have more resources and talent than virtually any other studio.

They did create a more ambitious game, visually. The Xbox One, Playstation 4 and PC versions.

Mr Puggsly said:

Good, then don't complain if I call you out on being immature.

No you can't. You can stick to the rules of the forum and use common courtesy like everyone else.

curl-6 said:

It would be interesting to see what a game would look like built from the ground up for the Xbox One X without having to run on the base model, but unfortunately we'll never know.

Indeed. Same goes for the Playstation 4 Pro.

Still, there are some benefits to be had choosing these mid-gen consoles even at 1080P... The base Xbox One has the majority of it's library at 1080P or less... And more and more Playstation 4 games are sub-1080P as well these days... So there is value in the mid-gen devices even if you are running with only a 27" 1080P display.

I'm saying the compromises made for a low end Scarlett could negatively effect game design. Especially if games can be optimized around SSD but have build for a standard HDD as well. I just get the impression a low budget option stopped making sense because model would have to strip too much.

I really dont feel Halo 3 has a frame pacing issue. Its generally detected on frame counters by constantly jumping above and below 30 fps. But I get your point, you dont feel its smooth. We will end on that.

GTAV on PS4 and X1 was not really built to take advantage of the new specs. I was playing the X1 version for the first time recently and was disappointed.

If you had courtesy you would have respected I withdrew a thought instead of stressing it in a condescending manner, "because I can." My criticism of you was fair and I dont care if it broke a rule.



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