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Sony is focusing on Hard-Core Gamers for PS5

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KBG29 said:
Sounds like the same Sony that doubled down on Portable CD Players for the Core Music audience, because the world wasn't ready for Digital Music. The same Sony that doubled down on CRT and Rear Projection TVs for the Core AV enthusiasts, because the world wasn't ready fro LCD. The same Sony that forced a Blu-ray Player into the PS3 to grab all the Physical Movie Royalties, because the world wasn't ready for digital films and streaming.

Basically, it sounds like Sony will repeat history, once again betting on the core market, and leaving the mass market to the competition. Pehapps it was inevitable that PlayStation Home consoles would face the same fate as every other previously successful Sony platform.

I hope I am wrong, and Sony is right. It just seems unlikely that Digital/Streaming will fail this time around, after it has proven itself every time in the past. The way I see it, 2000's = Audio, 2010's = Video, 2020's will very likely = Games, and maybe 2030's = VR.

Don't get me wrong. I love games, and I like the idea of a Hardcore all out box for gaming. I would be excited as ever if PS5 was a $1,000 device that delivered the best performce available. Unfortunately, I have already seen what happens when devices are built for the core gamer, and don't offer the basic features the masses expect.

I rather have a HW that focus on core gamer and that Playstation breaks from it then they focusing on what don't interest me making their product not worthy for me even while it is healthy on sales.



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jonathanalis said:
Oh no, 500$ PS5?

I'd say $500 PS5 was a given already based on what we know of the specs.

We have a Navi GPU and Ryzen 2 CPU in a single chipset. The 2 Navi Desktop GPU's are $380 and $450 at retail right now while the cheapest 8 core Ryzen 2 desktop CPU is going to be $330 at release. Even taking into account price drops over the next year before mass manufacturing of PS5 begins and the fact that the Sony gets a discount for buying in bulk, we're probably looking at $250-300 for the chipset alone. 

We'll most likely have at least 16 GB of GDDR6, possibly as much as 24 GB, though a middle ground of 20 GB is the safest bet I'd say. That's going to cost Sony at least $80. 

We have a top of the line m.2 SSD (Sony said it was one of the fastest SSD's on the market as I recall), probably 1 TB, that's going to cost Sony at least $70. 

We have the cooler, most likely a vapor chamber cooler if they don't want PS5 to sound like a jet engine like PS4 Pro, that'll cost them at least $40. 

We have the case of the system, that'll probably cost about $20.

We have the controller, PS4 controller costs $18 to build, I would assume PS5 will be about the same. 

And of course you have the cost of the packaging and labor. All in all, Sony will likely be selling at a loss even at $500. 

Last edited by shikamaru317 - on 01 July 2019

Conina said:
konkari said:

By the way, I know just one 3rd party game where Sony has had timed exclusivity, and that is Destiny. Considering that it was a new IP, and it has had several rough seasons, I would say Sonys commitment has probably helped to get Destiny over its crisis. Is that so anti consumer. 

Any other 3rd party games with Sony exclusive content out there?

PS4 timed exclusives: Crash Bandicoot: N.Sane Trilogy, Detroit: Become Human, Disgaea 5...

PS4 PSVR timed exclusives: Batman Arkham VR, Battlezone, Borderlands 2 VR, Moss, Polybius, Resident Evil 7 VR, REZ Infinite, Skyrim VR, Moss, Tethered,...

PS4/Vita timed exclusives: Danganronpa 1 - 3, Dragon Quest Builders, Final Fantasy X/X-2 HD, World of Final Fantasy, Ys VIII...

PS4 (timed) exclusive DLC: Batman Arkham Knight, DLC: CoD Black Ops 4, CoD Modern Warfare (2019), Control, Destiny, Marvel vs. Capcom: Infinite, Red Dead Redemption 2, Slime Rancher, Watch_Dogs...

It really depends on how you define timed exclusive, if you define it as a game that over time moves from single to multi platform status , then you have a definition that's so broad that you could state a case for ports and multiplats who's only crime was their release dates simply differed across the various platforms they appeared, another definition for timed exclusive would be, any game that is under an arrangement/contract that gives exclusive access to that game for a set time period, this  I would argue is what most people envisage when they talk about timed exclusives.



Early indirect subliminal next gen marketing? Get it in gamers heads that if you want to be considered hardcore, the PS5 is the console to choose?



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shikamaru317 said:

We have a top of the line m.2 SSD (Sony said it was one of the fastest SSD's on the market as I recall), probably 1 TB, that's going to cost Sony at least $70. 

That is because Sony is taking advantage of PCI-E 4.0. Otherwise it would be no faster than the fastest current SSD... It is essentially a baked in feature with Ryzen 3000 and Sony is taking full advantage of that... And good on them. - I am interested to know if the SSD will be the primary storage or if it will act like a cache drive.
In saying that.... You can get SSD setups faster than what the Playstation 5 will have on PC even 5 years ago, so it's not the "fastest SSD" setup possible even before the consoles release.

And once PCI-E 4.0 is out in the wild, PC will have m.2 slots that are just as fast... Which should happen this year actually.

shikamaru317 said:

We'll most likely have at least 16 GB of GDDR6, possibly as much as 24 GB, though a middle ground of 20 GB is the safest bet I'd say. That's going to cost Sony at least $80. 

From what I saw of Scarlett, it seems Microsoft will be using a mix of 2GB and 1GB chips, so we can assume 24GB is in for Scarlett... However, 8GB of that will only operate at half the bandwidth, so if Scarlett employs 14Gbps GDDR6 on a 256bit bus, then that last 8GB will be 224GB/s of bandwidth whilst the rest of the 16GB is 448GB/s.
It does mean we are probably looking at 8GB for the OS/Background duties.

Sony could be taking a similar approach. Or they may opt for only 16GB of GDDR6... Or 16GB GDDR6+8GB DDR4.

The memory front is probably the most interesting thing that can happen with the next gen hardware.... Heck. All the above may also be wrong, I am just going by the imagery I saw from E3 with the Scarlett reveal and building my hypothesis from that.



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Meaningless marketing fluff. NEXT!



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EricHiggin said:

Early indirect subliminal next gen marketing? Get it in gamers heads that if you want to be considered hardcore, the PS5 is the console to choose?

A business publication is being used for marketing gamers?



Pemalite said:

From what I saw of Scarlett, it seems Microsoft will be using a mix of 2GB and 1GB chips, so we can assume 24GB is in for Scarlett... However, 8GB of that will only operate at half the bandwidth, so if Scarlett employs 14Gbps GDDR6 on a 256bit bus, then that last 8GB will be 224GB/s of bandwidth whilst the rest of the 16GB is 448GB/s.
It does mean we are probably looking at 8GB for the OS/Background duties.

Sony could be taking a similar approach. Or they may opt for only 16GB of GDDR6... Or 16GB GDDR6+8GB DDR4.

You are not making sense on the memory. Clamshell or not, memory bus speed is memory bus speed.

I highly doubt anyone is going for mixed memory. You are just asking for engineering trouble doing that.



Sounds like timed/exclusive content to me. No big deal. SIE is already vastly superior to MS first party and may surpass Nintendo's first party next generation.



drkohler said:
Pemalite said:

From what I saw of Scarlett, it seems Microsoft will be using a mix of 2GB and 1GB chips, so we can assume 24GB is in for Scarlett... However, 8GB of that will only operate at half the bandwidth, so if Scarlett employs 14Gbps GDDR6 on a 256bit bus, then that last 8GB will be 224GB/s of bandwidth whilst the rest of the 16GB is 448GB/s.
It does mean we are probably looking at 8GB for the OS/Background duties.

Sony could be taking a similar approach. Or they may opt for only 16GB of GDDR6... Or 16GB GDDR6+8GB DDR4.

You are not making sense on the memory. Clamshell or not, memory bus speed is memory bus speed.

I highly doubt anyone is going for mixed memory. You are just asking for engineering trouble doing that.

Making perfect sense. It is Gigabits per second.
And no. memory bus speed is not memory bus speed. Each chip has it's own bus... So think along those lines.
Memory transactions are a parallel task.

It is okay it can get confusing quickly.

Basically 16x memory chips.

But I'll try and dumb it down for you.

Each blue line is a 16-bit data path to the GPU... And 16x chips is an aggregate 256-bit bus.


Once you hit 1GB of used capacity on each chip, then you can only start filling up the 2GB chips... Which is when bandwidth is cut in half as memory transactions can only occur in half the chips. (The 2GB ones.)

We actually have had similar cases where this has happened on GPU's before... A few of nVidia GPU's infact... For example the Geforce 970 where the 3.5GB of Ram ran at full speed and the last 512MB ran at a reduced bandwidth.

So no... Memory bus isn't just memory bus.

As for mixed memory... There have been tons of systems with mixed memory setups. - Playstation 3 (XDR and GDDR3), Playstation 4 (GDDR5 and DDR3) for example, so to assume it's unheard of is a bit of a fallacy.

Either way, I am not asserting anything as factual at this stage anyway.

Last edited by Pemalite - on 01 July 2019