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Sony is focusing on Hard-Core Gamers for PS5

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That is what I wanted to hear. This is a competition after all.



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Vodacixi said:
Sony keeps talking big about things the are already doing. Just like when they announced PS4 and the said second hand games would be allowed. It's funny, sad and shameful all at the same time...

They are just announcing what they do, the "funny, sad and shameful" would be that they need to say it because others aren't doing this.

BraLoD said:
DonFerrari said:

I thought all LoD conversation were the most official and important on the forum =p

It is the most important, indeed.

About official, you'll know it when gou see it xD

We can't wait for the announcement



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

I can't shake the feeling that Sony doesn't really understand why the PlayStation 4 was so successful. It wasn't because it was some uber powerful console (Even when it launched, it really wasn't that powerful). It succeeded because it had a diverse library of games for everyone, as well as a successful marketing campaign that capitalized on Microsoft's failings.

With the PS5, I feel like Sony is going in with a misguided approach, thinking PlayStation is some niche hardcore brand when it's really not, by prioritizing AAA developers, and expecting smaller teams to just follow them like Sheep. I'd like to be proven wrong, but I think Sony's mentality next gen has a chace at backfiring.



PS3 taught Sony so much about what works and what doesnt.



Black Women Are The Most Beautiful Women On The Planet.

"In video game terms, RPGs are games that involve a form of separate battles taking place with a specialized battle system and the use of a system that increases your power through a form of points.

Sure, what you say is the definition, but the connotation of RPGs is what they are in video games." - dtewi

TheMisterManGuy said:
I can't shake the feeling that Sony doesn't really understand why the PlayStation 4 was so successful. It wasn't because it was some uber powerful console (Even when it launched, it really wasn't that powerful). It succeeded because it had a diverse library of games for everyone, as well as a successful marketing campaign that capitalized on Microsoft's failings.

With the PS5, I feel like Sony is going in with a misguided approach, thinking PlayStation is some niche hardcore brand when it's really not, by prioritizing AAA developers, and expecting smaller teams to just follow them like Sheep. I'd like to be proven wrong, but I think Sony's mentality next gen has a chace at backfiring.

I totally agree and i am suprised at many in here not seeing this either. When PS2 came out and became super successful, Sony followed with the PS3 with that Hardcore image in mind, because lets face it, casual gamers wont go out spending $899 on a gaming console.

Now lets rinse and repeat. PS4 came out super successful and Sony is following with that same mentality by focusing on the Hardcore audience. If PS5 wants to outsell its competitors it needs to do it at a cheaper price point with AA and A games aswell.

Nintendo and MS also have juggernaut IPs and it just takes a good game launch and its basically 360 vs PS3 all over again. Sony has alot more marker share to lose than the others so they need to be careful. Also they need to drop that censorship BS, that's going to hurt them.



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Azzanation said:

I totally agree and i am suprised at many in here not seeing this either. When PS2 came out and became super successful, Sony followed with the PS3 with that Hardcore image in mind, because lets face it, casual gamers wont go out spending $899 on a gaming console.

I think people here aren't seeing a problem with it, because of Sony's claim of focusing on the hardcore gamer. Which sounds nice in PR, and on paper sounds good for them. In practice however, it's a strategy that rarely promotes growth for a brand as big as PlayStation. I think Sony is really undervaluing the PlayStation brand with PR like this. I don't think a niche product would be able to sell nearly 100m units since 2013.

It's probably me, But ever since Sony Computer Entertainment moved to California to become Sony Interactive Entertainment, SIE has become a lot more "corporate" compared to when the PS4 was first revealed. Back then, SCE and PlayStaion appeared as a company ran by people who really loved games of all kinds, and wanted the PS4 to be the best place to play for any and all gamers and developers. But going into the PS5, I feel like Sony has been stagnating in quite a few areas. Not allowing cross-play, the recent content policies forced onto third party developers, the PS5 moving away from catering to indies expecting them to come based on brand recognition alone, and Layden's comments that they want to make fewer but bigger games (Which to me, basically says they want to double down on their cinematic, story driven, action game focus). It feels like Sony is completely unwilling to take risks at this point. Just do more of the same, but bigger, and with a more narrow focus. I don't think it's as bad as the early PS3 era, but it pains me to say that Arrogant Sony is back to some degree.

I could be wrong about this, and I want Sony to prove me wrong. PlayStation means a lot to me and other gamers, but at the moment, Sony's not inspiring much confidence.



Azzanation said:
TheMisterManGuy said:
I can't shake the feeling that Sony doesn't really understand why the PlayStation 4 was so successful. It wasn't because it was some uber powerful console (Even when it launched, it really wasn't that powerful). It succeeded because it had a diverse library of games for everyone, as well as a successful marketing campaign that capitalized on Microsoft's failings.

With the PS5, I feel like Sony is going in with a misguided approach, thinking PlayStation is some niche hardcore brand when it's really not, by prioritizing AAA developers, and expecting smaller teams to just follow them like Sheep. I'd like to be proven wrong, but I think Sony's mentality next gen has a chace at backfiring.

I totally agree and i am suprised at many in here not seeing this either. When PS2 came out and became super successful, Sony followed with the PS3 with that Hardcore image in mind, because lets face it, casual gamers wont go out spending $899 on a gaming console.

Now lets rinse and repeat. PS4 came out super successful and Sony is following with that same mentality by focusing on the Hardcore audience. If PS5 wants to outsell its competitors it needs to do it at a cheaper price point with AA and A games aswell.

Nintendo and MS also have juggernaut IPs and it just takes a good game launch and its basically 360 vs PS3 all over again. Sony has alot more marker share to lose than the others so they need to be careful. Also they need to drop that censorship BS, that's going to hurt them.

You both have just misunderstood what is being said. PS5 being niche has to do with consoles being a small segment in the greater gaming market which includes handhelds, but more importantly PC and smartphones. The number of console gamers are dwarfed by smartphone gamers alone, and most likely even PC gamers. 

PS5 appealing to the hardcore crowd is literally how every PS console is launched. The PS4 wasn't being sold to the average consume from day 1. And you could easily argue that it still hasn't even hit a mass market price point yet. 

There shouldn't be any concern that Sony are clueless to the PS4's success. They know what made it successful and and they will follow it up with moves to retain that success (such as BC, which already puts Sony ahead in the race)

And the censorship issue bring brought up as some Achilles heel for Sony is straight up the most laughable criticism of Sony atm. 

TheMisterManGuy said:
Azzanation said:

I totally agree and i am suprised at many in here not seeing this either. When PS2 came out and became super successful, Sony followed with the PS3 with that Hardcore image in mind, because lets face it, casual gamers wont go out spending $899 on a gaming console.

I think people here aren't seeing a problem with it, because of Sony's claim of focusing on the hardcore gamer. Which sounds nice in PR, and on paper sounds good for them. In practice however, it's a strategy that rarely promotes growth for a brand as big as PlayStation. I think Sony is really undervaluing the PlayStation brand with PR like this. I don't think a niche product would be able to sell nearly 100m units since 2013.

It's probably me, But ever since Sony Computer Entertainment moved to California to become Sony Interactive Entertainment, SIE has become a lot more "corporate" compared to when the PS4 was first revealed. Back then, SCE and PlayStaion appeared as a company ran by people who really loved games of all kinds, and wanted the PS4 to be the best place to play for any and all gamers and developers. But going into the PS5, I feel like Sony has been stagnating in quite a few areas. Not allowing cross-play, the recent content policies forced onto third party developers, the PS5 moving away from catering to indies expecting them to come based on brand recognition alone, and Layden's comments that they want to make fewer but bigger games (Which to me, basically says they want to double down on their cinematic, story driven, action game focus). It feels like Sony is completely unwilling to take risks at this point. Just do more of the same, but bigger, and with a more narrow focus. I don't think it's as bad as the early PS3 era, but it pains me to say that Arrogant Sony is back to some degree.

I could be wrong about this, and I want Sony to prove me wrong. PlayStation means a lot to me and other gamers, but at the moment, Sony's not inspiring much confidence.

I don't need to reexplain niche/ hardcore here, but PS4 was for hardcore gamers too. There is a lot to digest in this comment but your fear of some of these things is irrational. 

or maybe you are correct. I think you aren't though. 



twintail said:

You both have just misunderstood what is being said. PS5 being niche has to do with consoles being a small segment in the greater gaming market which includes handhelds, but more importantly PC and smartphones. The number of console gamers are dwarfed by smartphone gamers alone, and most likely even PC gamers. 

PS5 appealing to the hardcore crowd is literally how every PS console is launched. The PS4 wasn't being sold to the average consume from day 1. And you could easily argue that it still hasn't even hit a mass market price point yet. 

There shouldn't be any concern that Sony are clueless to the PS4's success. They know what made it successful and and they will follow it up with moves to retain that success (such as BC, which already puts Sony ahead in the race)

Even if that was true, selling 100 million consoles is not niche by any stretch of the imagination. Whether Sony wants to admit it or not, PlayStation is mainstream, it always has been mainstream. Even past consoles were. The OG PlayStation actually wasn't the Hardcore niche gamers console aimed at diehard gaming nerds. That was the Sega Saturn, the PlayStation instead aimed at a broader audience, ones who were into movies and music and didn't see the appeal of video games. Essentially, it was a Wii-like strategy, before the Wii. The PS2 was a similar deal, with its DVD support alone selling consoles by the truckloads. The moment when Sony did decide to double down on the niche hardcore PlayStation crowd with the early PS3 era, they suffered for it. Nobody's going to pay $600 for an over-complicated media box with inferior third party ports and software droughts due to needlessly obtuse architecture.

But when they designed the PS4 with simple hardware and a wider audience of gamers in mind. Well surprise, surprise, they're back to dominating the console market. Basically, while I doubt we'll ever get a product as over-designed as the PS3 again, Sony seems to once again misunderstand just how popular PlayStation as a brand is. It's one of the most recognizable names in gaming, even people who don't play games on consoles know what PlayStation is. Now there's nothing wrong with targeting a niche audience if you're a startup or a name that was never really popular to begin with. But for a name as big as PlayStation, Sony needs to keep it big by targeting a wide audience with the PS5.

I don't need to reexplain niche/ hardcore here, but PS4 was for hardcore gamers too. There is a lot to digest in this comment but your fear of some of these things is irrational. 

or maybe you are correct. I think you aren't though. 

Yes, but it wasn't exclusively for hardcore gamers either. It was made for gamers period. Doesn't matter if you're young, old, hardcore CoD Player, or casual Minecraft explorer. PS4 was made for all kinds of gamers. In fact that "gamers-first" mentality is why it trounced the Xbox One at first, which was focused more on being an always online media box than a platform focused on gaming.



Azzanation said:
TheMisterManGuy said:
I can't shake the feeling that Sony doesn't really understand why the PlayStation 4 was so successful. It wasn't because it was some uber powerful console (Even when it launched, it really wasn't that powerful). It succeeded because it had a diverse library of games for everyone, as well as a successful marketing campaign that capitalized on Microsoft's failings.

With the PS5, I feel like Sony is going in with a misguided approach, thinking PlayStation is some niche hardcore brand when it's really not, by prioritizing AAA developers, and expecting smaller teams to just follow them like Sheep. I'd like to be proven wrong, but I think Sony's mentality next gen has a chace at backfiring.

I totally agree and i am suprised at many in here not seeing this either. When PS2 came out and became super successful, Sony followed with the PS3 with that Hardcore image in mind, because lets face it, casual gamers wont go out spending $899 on a gaming console.

Now lets rinse and repeat. PS4 came out super successful and Sony is following with that same mentality by focusing on the Hardcore audience. If PS5 wants to outsell its competitors it needs to do it at a cheaper price point with AA and A games aswell.

Nintendo and MS also have juggernaut IPs and it just takes a good game launch and its basically 360 vs PS3 all over again. Sony has alot more marker share to lose than the others so they need to be careful. Also they need to drop that censorship BS, that's going to hurt them.

I don't expect Sony to start pushing away AA + A developers. Just look at the amount of indies Sony has published/collaborated on, the VR developers they support, and the amount of "niche" Japanese games on the PS4. Nothing indicates they're shifting to solely focus on AAA level content. The censorship issue seems to be blown out of proportion. To me it sounds like they want to start off the generation with a stronger launch of AAA exclusives/content compared to the PS4. The only thing that would make a PS5 launch a failure would be an incredibly high price point ($599+). I doubt Sony makes this mistake again. We might get a stronger machine than previously imagined, but I'd bet Sony would rather take a $100+ loss on hardware, and break even with software/subscriptions.

MS does not have the same amount of juggernaught IP's as Sony does. God of War, Uncharted & Horizon:Zero Dawn will eclipse the highest selling Halo, with TLOU:PT.II doing so as well. More importantly, Gears + Halo have taken a massive dip in popularity this generation, and nothing suggests this trend will change, especially since the original developers of these IP's are no longer working on them. SIE franchises well sell more, review better, and move more hardware, compared to MS IP's. Its going to take more than a few studio acquisitions to overcome that. 



TheMisterManGuy said:

Even if that was true, selling 100 million consoles is not niche by any stretch of the imagination. Whether Sony wants to admit it or not, PlayStation is mainstream, it always has been mainstream. 

But when they designed the PS4 with simple hardware and a wider audience of gamers in mind. Well surprise, surprise, they're back to dominating the console market. 



It is niche when you consider what it is being compared to:
https://mediakix.com/blog/mobile-gaming-industry-statistics-market-revenue/#gs.17c6Pc4


There are an estimated 203 million mobile gamers in the US alone. Double PS4 has sold worldwide. There are an estimated 2.2 billion worldwide.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/748089/number-mobile-gamers-world-platform/
https://newzoo.com/insights/articles/betting-on-billions-how-brands-and-advertisers-can-unlock-the-power-of-mobile-gamers/

And these figures don't even include the PC market, which is arguably bigger than consoles.

PS as a brand is not niche, sure, but as a product in the greater scheme of gaming it can be seen as such. This is what Sony is talking about. Niche is not being seen as selling to a small market within console gaming alone.
https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/343267/Sony_CEO_Consoles_a_niche_market_within_the_games_industry.php


"If you look at the game industry as a whole, the console market is not a major market, rather it's a niche market, if you will,"
This is what statistics are telling us.

The PS4 was a $400 machine which itself is not a mass appeal price. Sony pushed hardcore games early, not only from their own studios but as well with marketing deals. PS5 will obviously have a range of different games. Sony isn't going to deny any software, so there is no cause for the lack of non-hardcore games appearing early. But as usual, they will push for the obvious hardcore market because that is the market that will buy a +$400 console at launch.


Of course when the PS5 gets properly detailed we will know for sure, and if I end up being wrong then I am wrong.

But at the moment, I can't find any fault with what Sony are saying. It reflects the real situation as we know it now, and as we have known it for more than a console gen. The PS5 will launch with your CoDs. It will launch with your Legos. It will launch with your indies. Gamers as a whole is the overall goal but its the hardcore audience who will be the early adopters, not the mass. And that is important, because it means Sony knows who they are targeting, and they know how to kick off next gen on the right foot.  

Last edited by twintail - 6 days ago