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Sony is focusing on Hard-Core Gamers for PS5

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DonFerrari said:
CuCabeludo said:

No doubt that, both sony and ms will take losses with their next consoles for at least 2 years. MS can take such losses easily, but for Sony which depends a lot on their gaming department, it will be a heavier task.

I expect Sony to have a 600 USD box selling between 400-450 pricetag.

If BraLoD is right, which he never is since every game show he says LoD remake or sequel will show up, them it would be a 700 machine sold at 500.

I heard that BraLoD guy predicted The Last Guardian comeback, you should pay him some attention.

On a completely unrelated note, LoD comeback is imminent.



Pemalite said:
CuCabeludo said:

No doubt that, both sony and ms will take losses with their next consoles for at least 2 years. MS can take such losses easily, but for Sony which depends a lot on their gaming department, it will be a heavier task.

Subscriptions to various services are making it more financially tenable to take those early losses though, especially when they can rely on subscriptions from prior console generations to make that division look financially better.

It's going to be interesting to see if they will take a financial hit on each unit shifted or not.

thismeintiel said:

Sure, MS can. Xbox, however, can not.  I think this is the reason we've been hearing lately that the PS5 is more powerful. MS is going to have a decent box, but they don't want to lose a bunch of money on HW, so I think they'll launch at break even, maybe a slight loss. Sony, on the other hand, is more willing to take larger losses up front, since gaming is a big division for them. Gaming for MS is a much smaller focus, and gaming HW even smaller, hence them taking a bigger leap into streaming and PC gaming, as of late.

I think the most likely outcome is that they will both launch at $499, but with Sony taking a larger loss, they will have the more capable HW.

Xbox can... Seems Microsoft has opened it's checkbook up and is gearing up for next-gen, hence the purchasing of all the studios recently and holding things back for next-gen.
But they still need to answer to shareholders, so they certainly do still have limits and restrictions.

Plus Microsoft tends to roll other aspects into it's "Gaming division" to make that division seem more lucrative anyway, helps that division is also partly buoyed by the PC too... So they can get away with more than people realize thanks to clever accounting.

DonFerrari said:

Well it have been over 10 years that we have been hearing MS infinite money would win they a generation, it have been 3 loses already.

The 6th gen was probably regarded as a failure due to the massive financial hits they received.

But despite coming in 3rd during the 7th gen... Nintendo, Microsoft and Sony were all incredibly successful, Microsoft made Billions and I would not regard that generation (Or any generation where a manufacturer shifts 70+ million consoles!) a failure.

The 8th gen is a bit of a step back, but I doubt we can regard that as a failure either, subscriptions to various schemes has made it a financially sound generation even if it wasn't a roaring success like the Playstation 4.

Manlytears said:

I think xbox is the one whit problems here. They have spend lots of money whit new studios and banking on gamepass ( they sure are losing money whit $1 deals and day 1 exclusives). Also, xbox sure isn't as focused in "selling hardware" as playstation, i mean look at Phill spencer recent comments about "selling consoles" and the "play anywere" thing.

Truly feels like Playstation is much more focused on making you buy their console than xbox, and at the same time people need to remember that xbox don't have unlimited acess to MS money, investiments on new studios, gamepass and new console sure are going to hurt.

Microsoft likely has the appropriate data to get a good gauge on how long a person is a paying subscriber to gamepass at this point, so having $1 gamepass entries is likely a short-term hit for a longer-term financial haul... Plus the more subscribers they get hooked into this gen, they will probably hope those customers translates over to next-gen.

What will be truly interesting is if Sony takes a similar approach to Gamepass in the future, then Microsoft will likely start to feel some competitive pressure on that front.

From the amount of sales and relevance I agree MS have been succesful with X360 and X1. They had the hiccups of RROD and used games that halved their sales, but considering how much unsucesful consoles sale them they certainly were succesful.

My point was just that we hear about MS infinite money buying their win every gen but haven't happened yet and I see no reason to believe it would buy their win on gen 9 as well. If they win it won't be because they have infinite money and decides to eat heavy cost to subside and buy studios that either are to expensive because they sell high or won't make the money back because they sell little.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

BraLoD said:
DonFerrari said:

I expect Sony to have a 600 USD box selling between 400-450 pricetag.

If BraLoD is right, which he never is since every game show he says LoD remake or sequel will show up, them it would be a 700 machine sold at 500.

I heard that BraLoD guy predicted The Last Guardian comeback, you should pay him some attention.

On a completely unrelated note, LoD comeback is imminent.

I think this is the first E3 or even any other show that you didn't predict LoD showing up.

well about Last Guardian I expected it would show up because Sony kept giving updates every other year. Now if you predicted The Agent will show as launch title for PS5 and exclusive for life and it was right then I would be impressed =p



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Pemalite said:
thismeintiel said:

Sure, MS can. Xbox, however, can not.  I think this is the reason we've been hearing lately that the PS5 is more powerful. MS is going to have a decent box, but they don't want to lose a bunch of money on HW, so I think they'll launch at break even, maybe a slight loss. Sony, on the other hand, is more willing to take larger losses up front, since gaming is a big division for them. Gaming for MS is a much smaller focus, and gaming HW even smaller, hence them taking a bigger leap into streaming and PC gaming, as of late.

I think the most likely outcome is that they will both launch at $499, but with Sony taking a larger loss, they will have the more capable HW.

Xbox can... Seems Microsoft has opened it's checkbook up and is gearing up for next-gen, hence the purchasing of all the studios recently and holding things back for next-gen.
But they still need to answer to shareholders, so they certainly do still have limits and restrictions.

Plus Microsoft tends to roll other aspects into it's "Gaming division" to make that division seem more lucrative anyway, helps that division is also partly buoyed by the PC too... So they can get away with more than people realize thanks to clever accounting.

Except that has very little with selling HW and more to do with getting new content for xCloud/GamerPass, and MS has said as much. Phil Spencer is even preparing for lower console sales with his "the business isn't how many consoles you sell" talk. MS is making it obvious that they are transitioning Xbox to be a service. I don't think they are going to be interested in losing that revenue to cover losses on greatly subsidizing expensive HW.



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shikamaru317 said:
jonathanalis said:
Oh no, 500$ PS5?

I'd say $500 PS5 was a given already based on what we know of the specs.

We have a Navi GPU and Ryzen 2 CPU in a single chipset. The 2 Navi Desktop GPU's are $380 and $450 at retail right now while the cheapest 8 core Ryzen 2 desktop CPU is going to be $330 at release. Even taking into account price drops over the next year before mass manufacturing of PS5 begins and the fact that the Sony gets a discount for buying in bulk, we're probably looking at $250-300 for the chipset alone. 

We'll most likely have at least 16 GB of GDDR6, possibly as much as 24 GB, though a middle ground of 20 GB is the safest bet I'd say. That's going to cost Sony at least $80. 

We have a top of the line m.2 SSD (Sony said it was one of the fastest SSD's on the market as I recall), probably 1 TB, that's going to cost Sony at least $70. 

We have the cooler, most likely a vapor chamber cooler if they don't want PS5 to sound like a jet engine like PS4 Pro, that'll cost them at least $40. 

We have the case of the system, that'll probably cost about $20.

We have the controller, PS4 controller costs $18 to build, I would assume PS5 will be about the same. 

And of course you have the cost of the packaging and labor. All in all, Sony will likely be selling at a loss even at $500. 

Yep I'm thinking very close to you:

Apu/Soc = $200
Memory = $75-100
1TB SSD = $50-75
Rest = $175
Total $500-550

But I'm expecting between 12-16GB of Video ram and for cooling a heatsink and a big Fan should still be more effective than vapor chamber.

Pemalite said:

shikamaru317 said:

We'll most likely have at least 16 GB of GDDR6, possibly as much as 24 GB, though a middle ground of 20 GB is the safest bet I'd say. That's going to cost Sony at least $80. 

From what I saw of Scarlett, it seems Microsoft will be using a mix of 2GB and 1GB chips, so we can assume 24GB is in for Scarlett... However, 8GB of that will only operate at half the bandwidth, so if Scarlett employs 14Gbps GDDR6 on a 256bit bus, then that last 8GB will be 224GB/s of bandwidth whilst the rest of the 16GB is 448GB/s.
It does mean we are probably looking at 8GB for the OS/Background duties.

Sony could be taking a similar approach. Or they may opt for only 16GB of GDDR6... Or 16GB GDDR6+8GB DDR4.

The memory front is probably the most interesting thing that can happen with the next gen hardware.... Heck. All the above may also be wrong, I am just going by the imagery I saw from E3 with the Scarlett reveal and building my hypothesis from that.

Mixing 1GB and 2GB Ram chips/modules was more complicated than I thought, can't Microsoft do something similiar Nvidia did to geforce 550 Ti? Quote from Anandtech:

"NVIDIA’s solution was to put 1GB on a 192-bit card anyhow... this is a 6 chip configuration, with NVIDIA using 4 1Gb chips and 2 2Gb chips... Our base assumption is that NVIDIA is using a memory interleaving mode similar to “flex” modes on desktop computers... As such NVIDIA would have the full 98.5GB/sec of memory bandwidth available across the first 768MB, while the last 256MB would be much more painful at 32.8GB/sec"

But with 12GB of Vram on a 256-bit bus with 9GB available for games and full memory speed. Remaining 3GB for OS but has lower memory bandwidth?

drkohler said:
Pemalite said:

Once you hit 1GB of used capacity on each chip, then you can only start filling up the 2GB chips...

And this is when you switch from clamshell mode to non-clamshell mode on the 2GByte chips on both channels, putting the 1GByte chips onto high impedance.

As you say, it is really very complicated implementing such shenanigans and I doubt they are going to implement this. 

I see either 16Gbyte on a 256bit bus or 24Gbyte on a 384bit bus, leaning towards the 16GByte solution which is obviously much cheaper. Also with the "superfast ssd" solution combined with improved memory compression technology leads me to think 16GByte will be enough memory for a console.

Microsoft showed us a CGI render film of scarlett, which did they did for Xbox one X and turned to be true. In the CGI render for Next-gen console we can see 8 chips ggdr6 modules/chips with mixture of both 1GB and 2GB Vram, but there might be 10 chips/modules based on the placement. Anymore than 10 Chips is unlikely based on what we can see in the film.

So you wrong on both assumption it's either 8/10 chips with a mixture of 1 and 2GB Vram.



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DonFerrari said:
BraLoD said:

I heard that BraLoD guy predicted The Last Guardian comeback, you should pay him some attention.

On a completely unrelated note, LoD comeback is imminent.

I think this is the first E3 or even any other show that you didn't predict LoD showing up.

well about Last Guardian I expected it would show up because Sony kept giving updates every other year. Now if you predicted The Agent will show as launch title for PS5 and exclusive for life and it was right then I would be impressed =p

Jan 1st of the year it was announced I made a thread saying it would be coming back that year for sure, then it appeared on that year E3. (2015 I think)

Agent is meh.

I actually never made and official prediction about LoD comeback, when I do you'll have a thread for that here xD



BraLoD said:
DonFerrari said:

I think this is the first E3 or even any other show that you didn't predict LoD showing up.

well about Last Guardian I expected it would show up because Sony kept giving updates every other year. Now if you predicted The Agent will show as launch title for PS5 and exclusive for life and it was right then I would be impressed =p

Jan 1st of the year it was announced I made a thread saying it would be coming back that year for sure, then it appeared on that year E3. (2015 I think)

Agent is meh.

I actually never made and official prediction about LoD comeback, when I do you'll have a thread for that here xD

I thought all LoD conversation were the most official and important on the forum =p



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Sony keeps talking big about things the are already doing. Just like when they announced PS4 and the said second hand games would be allowed. It's funny, sad and shameful all at the same time...



DonFerrari said:
BraLoD said:

Jan 1st of the year it was announced I made a thread saying it would be coming back that year for sure, then it appeared on that year E3. (2015 I think)

Agent is meh.

I actually never made and official prediction about LoD comeback, when I do you'll have a thread for that here xD

I thought all LoD conversation were the most official and important on the forum =p

It is the most important, indeed.

About official, you'll know it when gou see it xD