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Do you think Google Stadia is doomed to fail?

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Is stadia going to fail? (not be competitive, profitable?)

yes - (people wont pay for 4k subscription) 42 77.78%
 
no - (people want to stre... 12 22.22%
 
Total:54
potato_hamster said:
Barkley said:

Why do you think you need to be absolutely 100% certain about something? If it changes it changes, if it doesn't it doesn't. Who gives a damn? If you disagree that the price of X console will be what someone proposes then their comparison doesn't apply for you. With people who agree that it will be that price then the comparison is valid for them. Crikey!

Literally all you have to say is "I don't think it will cost this much." Rather than what you actually did.

"these comparisons are ridiculous because we literally don't know anything about the pricing of PS5 or Xbox Scarlett. How about we wait until we have more information".

"Sure they are, look we can totally make these educated guesses! We know things about these consoles that haven't been stated!"

"Look at all of these educated guesses other people would have made that turned out to be totally wrong. Isn't it better to wait until we know more?"

"who cares if all turns out to be wrong, it can be true to some people now!"

If that's how you want to do it, man.

Also, where did I make a positive or negative claim about anything around the price of the PS5 or its features?



If you don't want to take part in any discussion where not everything is a 100% fact be my guest, most people don't live like that. Stop starting petty arguments. If you don't disagree the consoles will be roughly $400-$500 then there's nothing to argue about. If you do disagree that will be the price that's all you have to say.



Predictions (Made July 2019)

LTD: PS4 - 130m, Switch - 110m, XBO - 52m       2019 : PS4 - 15m, Switch - 18.8m, XBO - 4.8m        2020: Switch - 22m (Peak Year)


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Barkley said:
potato_hamster said:

"these comparisons are ridiculous because we literally don't know anything about the pricing of PS5 or Xbox Scarlett. How about we wait until we have more information".

"Sure they are, look we can totally make these educated guesses! We know things about these consoles that haven't been stated!"

"Look at all of these educated guesses other people would have made that turned out to be totally wrong. Isn't it better to wait until we know more?"

"who cares if all turns out to be wrong, it can be true to some people now!"

If that's how you want to do it, man.

Also, where did I make a positive or negative claim about anything around the price of the PS5 or its features?



If you don't want to take part in any discussion where not everything is a 100% fact be my guest, most people don't live like that. Stop starting petty arguments. If you don't disagree the consoles will be roughly $400-$500 then there's nothing to argue about. If you do disagree that will be the price that's all you have to say.


Let's see if you can spot the difference between these three quotes:

"Let's assume that the price of a console will probably be between $400-$500 for discussions sake"

"We know the price of a console will be between $400 and $500"

"We know the price of a console will be between $400 and $500, will have an annual online pass at a cost of $80 a year, will get a mid-generation upgrade that hasn't been announced with a price between $400-$500 to compete with a Google Stadia mid-generation upgrade that hasn't even been announced yet within a defined time period that doesn't comport with the time current time span between consoles, and based off of all of this we can factual comparisons of the costs playing on each platform over a six year span."

If you can't spot the difference then get back to me when you can.


When you take everything I've said and you distill that to "I think its unreasonable to say the consoles will be roughly $400-$500, and I just don't want to say it" I just don't know how to go on from there. It just doesn't add up at all.



potato_hamster said:
Barkley said:

If you don't want to take part in any discussion where not everything is a 100% fact be my guest, most people don't live like that. Stop starting petty arguments. If you don't disagree the consoles will be roughly $400-$500 then there's nothing to argue about. If you do disagree that will be the price that's all you have to say.



"We know the price of a console will be between $400 and $500"

If you need someone to explicitly tell you that an unannounced price is a prediction/guess that's your problem.



Predictions (Made July 2019)

LTD: PS4 - 130m, Switch - 110m, XBO - 52m       2019 : PS4 - 15m, Switch - 18.8m, XBO - 4.8m        2020: Switch - 22m (Peak Year)


Barkley said:
potato_hamster said:



"We know the price of a console will be between $400 and $500"

If you need someone to explicitly tell you that an unannounced price is a prediction/guess that's your problem.

<my point>










































<your head>



Barkley said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

Selling your original system for $200 when getting the mid-gen upgrade isn't a deal. It's economics. If Stadia offers up yearly subscriptions for a lowered price, I'll factor that in when they do it. I'll also factor in lowered console prices, whenever the PS5/XB2 get their first price drop, instead of speculating on potential future price drops. We shouldn't be factoring in any price drops for either side until they are announced. That's only fair. Refusing to accept someone else's epistemology =/= moving the goal posts. You just ignored the extra internet cost for Stadia. I realize that not everyone will need to pay extra for internet, but not everyone needs to pay for XBL/PS+ either. So we can either keep the extra internet cost for Stadia, and keep the XBL/PS+ cost, or drop both of them. Either way the price of the consoles come out on top. You also ignored the cost of losing games you paid for, as well as the inability to resell them. And let's be honest, losing games you paid for is inevitable, when it comes to a streaming service. There's no speculation there. 

"We shouldn't be factoring in any price drops for either side until they are announced." - Yet assuming $400 for a nextgen system is generous, this price isn't announced. You also assume $400 for a Pro system down the line.

"You just ignored the extra internet cost for Stadia. I realize that not everyone will need to pay extra for internet" - Exactly, my internet is already more than good enough and the cost has nothing to do with Cloud Gaming.

"But not everyone needs to pay for XBL/PS+ either." - Not everyone needs to pay for 4k streaming. After all you may prefer Ultra Settings at 1080p than Medium settings at 4k.

At the end of the day there are many different situations and options, either console or Stadia can come out on top.

I didn't assume anything for the prices of next gen consoles, or the Pro systems. Rol was the one who started arguing with the assumption that it
would be a $400 system and mid gen upgrade. I just rolled with it for the sake of argument. 

Stadia is offering a choice between 1080p ultra settings and 4K mid settings? Source?

RolStoppable said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

Selling your original system for $200 when getting the mid-gen upgrade isn't a deal. It's economics. If Stadia offers up yearly subscriptions for a lowered price, I'll factor that in when they do it. I'll also factor in lowered console prices, whenever the PS5/XB2 get their first price drop, instead of speculating on potential future price drops. We shouldn't be factoring in any price drops for either side until they are announced. That's only fair. Refusing to accept someone else's epistemology =/= moving the goal posts. You just ignored the extra internet cost for Stadia. I realize that not everyone will need to pay extra for internet, but not everyone needs to pay for XBL/PS+ either. So we can either keep the extra internet cost for Stadia, and keep the XBL/PS+ cost, or drop both of them. Either way the price of the consoles come out on top. You also ignored the cost of losing games you paid for, as well as the inability to resell them. And let's be honest, losing games you paid for is inevitable, when it comes to a streaming service. There's no speculation there. 

At this point I am pretty sure that you have the clear goal to arrive at the conclusion that consoles are cheaper.

As for losing games, there are games taken down from console marketplaces too. Lots of people buy digital console games which can't be resold. You use a very subjective perspective for your analyses when the concerns you raise don't look like concerns for what will soon be a majority of PS and Xbox consumers. Digital ratios of game sales have been steadily growing and are commonly exceeding 30% by now while online multiplayer games are approaching 50% already. That's a trend of proper game ownership ceasing to be an important factor, so Stadia doesn't face a significant disadvantage here.

Yes, yes, when you lose an argument be sure to claim your opponent is some sort of villain. I appreciate you leaving my arguments unrefuted though. :P

Digital =/= streaming access to a game. Being taken down from a console marketplace =/= being removed from stadia. The console games that were taken down can still be played by people that had them in their HDD prior to the game being delisted. 

Online multiplayer games are approaching 50%? Of what? Revenue? Total game sales? Are mobile games excluded or included in that number? Are Mobas, and MMOs included? Are we going to count Fortnite, and other free 2 play games? What percentage of this number is sports titles, or revenue from MTX in sports titles that get released yearly? How are we counting games that have both a multiplayer element, and a single player campaign of at least 10-15 hours? Do they belong in the multiplayer section, or the single player section? 

Source? 

Last edited by Cerebralbore101 - on 28 June 2019

The sentence below is false. 
The sentence above is true. 

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potato_hamster said:
RolStoppable said:

As I've shown you twice before, JRPGfan mentioned next gen consoles very early in the thread. That term excludes Switch and Steam, hence why my comparison in the beginning of this thread was fair. You are the only one who takes an issue with this, because you are now long past the point of return, so you try to save face by claiming that you haven't been wrong all along with your assumptions regarding what this thread is about.

You barged into this thread to have a go at me and your collection of posts in this thread proves that, starting with your initial response to me. Later on you likened me to a flat earther among other forms of condescension, so you have no grounds to claim that your behavior in this thread has been respectful or at least on a standard appropriate for this website. You continue to argue a point that nobody but you sees that way, because to everyone else it was obvious since the start that Stadia is getting compared to the PS5 and Scarlett.

Ahh, so Switch gets lumped into the PS4 and XBox One generation when its convenient for you. Got it. What was that about twisting? Steam isn't limited by generations, it's automatically next gen. It's obvious you made an assumption, and now you're projecting your attempts to save face on me. You keep forgetting that I don't care about my reputation here! I have no reason to try and save face when I'm wrong. But you do...

I didn't barge into this thread to have a go at you. That's just more paranoia from you. You keep acting that if you can come up with a reason why my argument could possibly be made against any poster before you that I'm targeting you as if you get to decide where arguments are appropriate and where they're not. I cannot keep stating this for you: Your opinions are not fact despite your attempts to treat them as such. And now you're backseat moderating me. What was that about standards that are appropriate for this website?

And again, nice dodge on the "straw man argument" definition you keep messing up.

I'll show you the post in question for the third time now:

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9029008

JRPGfan said:

It being free at 1080p does change things somewhat.
But then again next gen consoles will all be 4k.

Does a statement refering to next gen consoles include Steam? No, definitely not, because Steam is not a console.

Is it possible that the statement includes Switch? No, because it mentions 4k resolution which Switch does not support.

Additionally, if the logical deductions of the presented quote are still insufficient for whatever reason, JRPGfan counts Switch towards the same generation as the PS4 and XB1, therefore he does not include Switch when he is talking about next gen consoles. You are free to ask him about that, if you don't believe me.

So none of this here is twisting on my part and it's all verifiable.

Last edited by RolStoppable - on 28 June 2019

Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV (360+PS3) would outsell SSBB. I was wrong.

A Biased Review Reloaded / Open Your Eyes / Switch Gamers Club

Cerebralbore101 said:
RolStoppable said:

At this point I am pretty sure that you have the clear goal to arrive at the conclusion that consoles are cheaper.

As for losing games, there are games taken down from console marketplaces too. Lots of people buy digital console games which can't be resold. You use a very subjective perspective for your analyses when the concerns you raise don't look like concerns for what will soon be a majority of PS and Xbox consumers. Digital ratios of game sales have been steadily growing and are commonly exceeding 30% by now while online multiplayer games are approaching 50% already. That's a trend of proper game ownership ceasing to be an important factor, so Stadia doesn't face a significant disadvantage here.

Yes, yes, when you lose an argument be sure to claim your opponent is some sort of villain. I appreciate you leaving my arguments unrefuted though. :P

Digital =/= streaming access to a game. 

Online multiplayer games are approaching 50%? Of what? Revenue? Total game sales? Are mobile games excluded or included in that number? Are Mobas, and MMOs included? Are we going to count Fortnite, and other free 2 play games? What percentage of this number is sports titles, or revenue from MTX in sports titles that get released yearly? How are we counting games that have both a multiplayer element, and a single player campaign of at least 10-15 hours? Do they belong in the multiplayer section, or the single player section? 

Source? 

https://www.resetera.com/threads/sony-q4-fy-2017-ps4-software-digital-sales-reach-43-ratio.39046/

The ResetEra thread has extracted the tables from Sony's financials. The information is a bit outdated because it's a year old, but the numbers for FY16 and FY 17 show a growing trend of digital sales for PS4 games. Obviously, this ratio only applies to games that are available in both physical and digital form.

As usual, XB1 data cannot be provided because Microsoft has opted to not disclose anything.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV (360+PS3) would outsell SSBB. I was wrong.

A Biased Review Reloaded / Open Your Eyes / Switch Gamers Club

I think it will do just fine.



RolStoppable said:
potato_hamster said:

Ahh, so Switch gets lumped into the PS4 and XBox One generation when its convenient for you. Got it. What was that about twisting? Steam isn't limited by generations, it's automatically next gen. It's obvious you made an assumption, and now you're projecting your attempts to save face on me. You keep forgetting that I don't care about my reputation here! I have no reason to try and save face when I'm wrong. But you do...

I didn't barge into this thread to have a go at you. That's just more paranoia from you. You keep acting that if you can come up with a reason why my argument could possibly be made against any poster before you that I'm targeting you as if you get to decide where arguments are appropriate and where they're not. I cannot keep stating this for you: Your opinions are not fact despite your attempts to treat them as such. And now you're backseat moderating me. What was that about standards that are appropriate for this website?

And again, nice dodge on the "straw man argument" definition you keep messing up.

I'll show you the post in question for the third time now:

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9029008

JRPGfan said:

It being free at 1080p does change things somewhat.
But then again next gen consoles will all be 4k.

Does a statement refering to next gen consoles include Steam? No, definitely not, because Steam is not a console.

Is it possible that the statement includes Switch? No, because it mentions 4k resolution which Switch does not support.

Additionally, if the logical deductions of the presented quote are still insufficient for whatever reason, JRPGfan counts Switch towards the same generation as the PS4 and XB1, therefore he does not include Switch when he is talking about next gen consoles. You are free to ask him about that, if you don't believe me.

So none of this here is twisting on my part and it's all verifiable.

So you believe in that one statement he's saying he believes that the only competition to the Google Stadia will be "next gen consoles" and not the expression of a thought that contributes to his overall thought process about some of (and not only) the competitors Google Stadia will have. JRPGfan himself later clarifies exactly what he feels Stadia's competition is, but you continue to discard this because you wish to twist this one sentence to mean more than it actually says.

This is about as clear cut example of "cherry picking" as it gets. But please, go on.



potato_hamster said:
RolStoppable said:

I'll show you the post in question for the third time now:

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9029008

JRPGfan said:

It being free at 1080p does change things somewhat.
But then again next gen consoles will all be 4k.

Does a statement refering to next gen consoles include Steam? No, definitely not, because Steam is not a console.

Is it possible that the statement includes Switch? No, because it mentions 4k resolution which Switch does not support.

Additionally, if the logical deductions of the presented quote are still insufficient for whatever reason, JRPGfan counts Switch towards the same generation as the PS4 and XB1, therefore he does not include Switch when he is talking about next gen consoles. You are free to ask him about that, if you don't believe me.

So none of this here is twisting on my part and it's all verifiable.

So you believe in that one statement he's saying he believes that the only competition to the Google Stadia will be "next gen consoles" and not the expression of a thought that contributes to his overall thought process about some of (and not only) the competitors Google Stadia will have. JRPGfan himself later clarifies exactly what he feels Stadia's competition is, but you continue to discard this because you wish to twist this one sentence to mean more than it actually says.

This is about as clear cut example of "cherry picking" as it gets. But please, go on.

Bruh, where did this "only competition" thing come from. Literally arguing something no one ever said. The original thing started as you saying that rol was the one who first mentioned comparison to ps5/xb2 and as has been proven jrpgfan referred to the ps5/xb2 first. What has it ONLY being the ps5/xb2 got to do with anything. You said Rol was first to bring up ps5, you were shown to be wrong.



Predictions (Made July 2019)

LTD: PS4 - 130m, Switch - 110m, XBO - 52m       2019 : PS4 - 15m, Switch - 18.8m, XBO - 4.8m        2020: Switch - 22m (Peak Year)