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Dutch national railroad is going to compensate the people deported to concentration camps

Forums - Politics Discussion - Dutch national railroad is going to compensate the people deported to concentration camps

the-pi-guy said:
Ka-pi96 said:
Idiotic idea that.

Making people today pay for something that their ancestors did (and probably had no actual choice in on top of that) is beyond ridiculous. Today's railroad company has absolutely nothing to do with that at all. And if it's a national railroad too then I expect it's taxpayer money they'll be paying out which is utterly disgusting. Why should today's taxpayers, who weren't even born at the time and had no say whatsoever in anything that went on, pay for that?

- so why can't the national railroad decide for themselves what to do?

- the company is state owned but it still makes money.  

- a company paying out to people who lost their parents, because they were involved in their deaths, is hardly disgusting.  Regardless of how long ago it was.  

If they're state owned then they should be doing what's based for the people of the country and instead use that money to provide better services, decrease fares or even just reduce the overall tax burden of the country. Although even if they were entirely private and had every right to decide what to do themselves it wouldn't protect them from criticism.

If it's state owned then any money it makes is effectively owned by the state, and therefore by the people, so they're still giving away taxpayer money.

And yes, it absolutely is disgusting to pay taxpayer money out to people. The taxpayers had nothing at all to do with those deaths and shouldn't have to pay for them.



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The thing is they issued an official applogy a few years back, but a survivor wasnt satisfied with that.
I'm on the fence on setting an allowance on that, its not like the government itself already has had compensation programs



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RolStoppable said:
Amnesia said:
You should remove immediately this topic or I think that some people will discover today, that there are much more WWII revisionist in this world than what they imagine...You don't want hate and agressivity here in VGC...That's not what we want. You should close this topic and we don't talk about it.
Plus in the majority of countries for users here (nearly every country actually), there are laws which makes illegal to talk about this. Once again you should just close it.

I am not aware of any country where it's illegal to talk about the holocaust and concentration camps. However, lots of countries have a tiny subset of people who admire nazi ideologies and would prefer it if the huge wrongdoings of the nazis were swept under the rug, so that one day they could say it with pride that the nazis had the right ideas.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gayssot_Act

Tell that to people have been in jail for just telling about what they had investigated.

I don't believe into the conclusion of the Nuremberg tribunal, and what is illegal is to attempt to explain why. So for me it is even more a scandal that 75 years later the jewish community has the power to extort money from the Dutch rail national service or the SNCF (the french one).



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Ka-pi96 said:

If they're state owned then they should be doing what's based for the people of the country and instead use that money to provide better services, decrease fares or even just reduce the overall tax burden of the country. Although even if they were entirely private and had every right to decide what to do themselves it wouldn't protect them from criticism.

If it's state owned then any money it makes is effectively owned by the state, and therefore by the people, so they're still giving away taxpayer money.

For context, the railroad was paid by the Nazi's to deliver 102,000 people to concentration camps.  

Ka-pi96 said:

And yes, it absolutely is disgusting to pay taxpayer money out to people. The taxpayers had nothing at all to do with those deaths and shouldn't have to pay for them.

I think your priorities are backwards if you think wrongful "taxation" is worse than a railroad paying out to Holocaust survivors.  



Amnesia said:
RolStoppable said:

I am not aware of any country where it's illegal to talk about the holocaust and concentration camps. However, lots of countries have a tiny subset of people who admire nazi ideologies and would prefer it if the huge wrongdoings of the nazis were swept under the rug, so that one day they could say it with pride that the nazis had the right ideas.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gayssot_Act

Tell that to people have been in jail for just telling about what they had investigated.

I don't believe into the conclusion of the Nuremberg tribunal, and what is illegal is to attempt to explain why. So for me it is even more a scandal that 75 years later the jewish community has the power to extort money from the Dutch rail national service or the SNCF (the french one).

That's a law against holocaust denial.



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RolStoppable said:
Amnesia said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gayssot_Act

Tell that to people have been in jail for just telling about what they had investigated.

I don't believe into the conclusion of the Nuremberg tribunal, and what is illegal is to attempt to explain why. So for me it is even more a scandal that 75 years later the jewish community has the power to extort money from the Dutch rail national service or the SNCF (the french one).

That's a law against holocaust denial.

Exactly, then if I am a denier, I can't defend myself with arguments because there is law to just prevent anyone to do any public attempt of demonstration.

But I am allowed to invite you in my private home to have a debate with you and try to explain you why I don't believe it.



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Amnesia said:
RolStoppable said:

That's a law against holocaust denial.

Exactly, then if I am a denier, I can't defend myself with arguments because there is law to just prevent anyone to do any public attempt of demonstration.

But I am allowed to invite you in my private home to have a debate with you and try to explain you why I don't believe it.

There's nothing wrong with talking about the Holocaust.  

Denying it, on the hand, is horrific.  

Denial won't be tolerated here.  There's nothing wrong with the topic at hand.  



Amnesia said:
RolStoppable said:

That's a law against holocaust denial.

Exactly, then if I am a denier, I can't defend myself with arguments because there is law to just prevent anyone to do any public attempt of demonstration.

But I am allowed to invite you in my private home to have a debate with you and try to explain you why I don't believe it.

Well, the core of the problem is that nobody can defend themself because the holocaust really happened. So those who'd like to defend themself are really only looking for a public platform to spread stupidity and there's no good reason that it should be allowed, because this level of stupidity is highly discriminating. Laws against hate speech are very similar in nature.



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the-pi-guy said:
Amnesia said:

Exactly, then if I am a denier, I can't defend myself with arguments because there is law to just prevent anyone to do any public attempt of demonstration.

But I am allowed to invite you in my private home to have a debate with you and try to explain you why I don't believe it.

There's nothing wrong with talking about the Holocaust.  

Denying it, on the hand, is horrific.  

Denial won't be tolerated here.  There's nothing wrong with the topic at hand.  

Well, if you say so... :)



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Not sure how this actually solves anything? Everyone around today did not take part in the criminal activities of the past. Holding shareholders or frankly, anyone responsible for the actions of other people just comes off as pandering to me.

I am open to hearing the other side.