Quantcast
Why can't Dems presidential hopefuls pull this much people for any of their rallys? <20,000+

Forums - Politics Discussion - Why can't Dems presidential hopefuls pull this much people for any of their rallys? <20,000+

People are tired of the fear mongering, in fighting, etc.

Also, none of them seems like an obviously god prospect, despite Trump being Trump (he is not as popular as Obama was)... Trump had to run against an insanely high number of candidates a couple of years ago, somehow he weeded out the competition.



Around the Network
o_O.Q said:

so for you policies can only be socialist when all means of production are publicly owned and the state is abolished?

You and I are clearly operating under a different definition of "socialism." Socialism, properly defined, has always means "public ownership of the means of production." It can be by the state seizing private firms, or by the workers directly controlling the means of production through co-ops and similar entities (meaning your local credit union is an example of socialism).

But you've made it abundantly clear that you define socialism as "whatever the government does" (a few steps beyond the typical right-wing red-baiting where "socialism" is "whatever specific policies and programs I don't like."). It's clear not just from your comments in this thread, but your comments in other threads. You just plain don't like governments in general, and appear to ascribe to some sort of minarchist or right-libertarian worldview where taxation is theft (which I guess makes the Founding Fathers thieves vis a vis Article One, Section 8 of the Constitution) and that spending those tax dollars on anything is "socialism." It's a worldview that's ironically the flipside of doctrinaire Marxism, wishing for an ideal world that never was and never will be. And I've found that people that ascribe to such views are impossible to argue with because they operate on a wavelength completely alien to more mainstream political viewpoints (not even the Republicans think taxes are theft, and are find with the government spending money on fighter jets, wars of choice, and border walls even if they're against spending on social programs). If you want to live in fear of Stalinist boogeymen hiding behind every bush waiting to oppress you with the "totalitarian horrors" like single-payer health insurance, anti-trust legislation, and having to pay your taxes, be my guest, but I'm done wasting my time trying to convince you that "socialism" doesn't mean "anything the government does." Next time we talk, it'll be about video games.



So many lefties here, hope America doesn’t end up like Venezuela and Cuba.
think whatever you like, see you at the polls.
And for those who don’t know nazi means national socialism.



gamingsoul said:
So many lefties here, hope America doesn’t end up like Venezuela and Cuba.
think whatever you like, see you at the polls.
And for those who don’t know nazi means national socialism.

Why are you confusing socialism with communism and authoritarianism?

Oh, and the real name of North Korea is the Democratic People's Republic of North Korea.  What that about National Socialist German Workers' Party again?



Massimus - "Trump already has democrat support."

Isn’t authoritarianism what the big tech companies are doing right now.
Fidel Castro promised democratic elections when he took over, then he took the power because he said democratic elections would put the revolution in danger, and what about the ussr they were supposed to help the workers, right now the left wants to vanish anyone who has different ideas, so many people are unhappy with the uncontrolled migration yet the democrats refuse to do anything, they have this sense of higher moral ground and anyone who disagree is racist, fanatic or something, isn’t that authoritarianism?



Around the Network
gamingsoul said:
So many lefties here, hope America doesn’t end up like Venezuela and Cuba.
think whatever you like, see you at the polls.
And for those who don’t know nazi means national socialism.

1.)  There are literally 0 politicians who are proposing anything close to the systems in Venezuela and Cuba.

2.)  Just because two things sound similar or are even called the same thing doesn't mean they're all the same.  There's a huge difference from supporting medicare for all and a full blown communistic country.  A lot of people would classify Norway, Sweden as Social Democracies as a differentiating term from Socialist countries.  A socialist country would have the government or the people owning everything.  A social democracy is a capitalistic country much like what we have right now. 

There are literally 0 candidates and very few posters who are proposing anything more than the typical social democracy.  

Depending on your definition of Socialism, there's nothing close to socialism.  

3.)  The Nazi name was largely taken up as a complement to the other socialist parties.  The Nazis were very much against Socialists and Communists, and arresting them was one of the acts that was done.   

4.)  Political systems are complicated.  Even two identical systems can have very different results.  Just because two countries are capitalist, doesn't mean they have the same rules.  And it certainly doesn't mean they'll see the same success.  



gamingsoul said:
1). 2). Isn’t authoritarianism what the big tech companies are doing right now.
3). Fidel Castro promised democratic elections when he took over, then he took the power because he said democratic elections would put the revolution in danger, and what about the ussr they were supposed to help the workers, 4). right now the left wants to vanish anyone who has different ideas, so many people are unhappy with the 5). 6). uncontrolled migration 7). yet the democrats refuse to do anything, they have this sense of higher moral ground and 8). anyone who disagree is racist, fanatic or something, 9). isn’t that authoritarianism?

I really shouldn't bite your bait.

1). No, it's not what they are doing right now.

2). Authoritarianism is a form of government, not a form of policy implementation at a private corporation.

3). Neither what the Fidel regime in Cuba did nor what the Stalin regime did in the USSR are relevant to modern socialism.  Especially given that the US leans toward Democratic Socialism such as the Nordic Model.

4). No, no we don't.  I'm on the left and no we don't. Now if you violate the TOS for a platform with which you agreed to when you registered, then that's your own damn fault.

5). Uncontrolled migration?  Why do you constantly use such obviously incorrect and intentionally inciteful hyperbole and rhetoric?  For one trying to critique the left, you sure are not helping your case with just verbiage.

6). The migration is not uncontrolled.  It's certainly not perfectly controlled but it's not uncontrolled at all. Actually, it was better controlled a few years ago.  Prior to 2016, we had a 75% court hearing appearance and check in rate for all asylum seekers.  For those that were part of the Family Case Management Program, it was 100%.  Trump ended the program and enacted Metering and now rates have plummeted...basically creating a self-fulling prophecy regarding a crisis.

7). We did do something and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell has refused to allow all House bills to be voted on the Senate floor preventing the possibility of them ever passing. In fact, he's blocked over 100 bills in just the past 4 months. And if you think this is recent, McConnell said back in 2015 that he would block any immigration bill while Obama is president. How can the Democrats do anything legislative if the Senate kills all of them outright?  That to me is more authoritarian than anything you have argued the Democrats do.

8). And here goes the hyperbole and rhetoric again. No, we don't. You wish we did though.  Because you want to have that dog whistle to blow on.  And you want it so bad that you and the right will repeat it as often as possible to make people believe it.

9). I think we've answered that.



Massimus - "Trump already has democrat support."

SpokenTruth said:
gamingsoul said:
1). 2). Isn’t authoritarianism what the big tech companies are doing right now.
3). Fidel Castro promised democratic elections when he took over, then he took the power because he said democratic elections would put the revolution in danger, and what about the ussr they were supposed to help the workers, 4). right now the left wants to vanish anyone who has different ideas, so many people are unhappy with the 5). 6). uncontrolled migration 7). yet the democrats refuse to do anything, they have this sense of higher moral ground and 8). anyone who disagree is racist, fanatic or something, 9). isn’t that authoritarianism?

I really shouldn't bite your bait.

1). No, it's not what they are doing right now.

2). Authoritarianism is a form of government, not a form of policy implementation at a private corporation.

3). Neither what the Fidel regime in Cuba did nor what the Stalin regime did in the USSR are relevant to modern socialism.  Especially given that the US leans toward Democratic Socialism such as the Nordic Model.

4). No, no we don't.  I'm on the left and no we don't. Now if you violate the TOS for a platform with which you agreed to when you registered, then that's your own damn fault.

5). Uncontrolled migration?  Why do you constantly use such obviously incorrect and intentionally inciteful hyperbole and rhetoric?  For one trying to critique the left, you sure are not helping your case with just verbiage.

6). The migration is not uncontrolled.  It's certainly not perfectly controlled but it's not uncontrolled at all. Actually, it was better controlled a few years ago.  Prior to 2016, we had a 75% court hearing appearance and check in rate for all asylum seekers.  For those that were part of the Family Case Management Program, it was 100%.  Trump ended the program and enacted Metering and now rates have plummeted...basically creating a self-fulling prophecy regarding a crisis.

7). We did do something and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell has refused to allow all House bills to be voted on the Senate floor preventing the possibility of them ever passing. In fact, he's blocked over 100 bills in just the past 4 months. And if you think this is recent, McConnell said back in 2015 that he would block any immigration bill while Obama is president. How can the Democrats do anything legislative if the Senate kills all of them outright?  That to me is more authoritarian than anything you have argued the Democrats do.

8). And here goes the hyperbole and rhetoric again. No, we don't. You wish we did though.  Because you want to have that dog whistle to blow on.  And you want it so bad that you and the right will repeat it as often as possible to make people believe it.

9). I think we've answered that.

you come to the conclusion you like very nicely



Funny how Norway has become the point of mesure for everyone, Norway happens to be one of the riches countries in the world, it’s also very small and homogenous, but yeah if they get socialism right anybody can.

i am not even sure if Norway qualifies as a socialist country

Last edited by gamingsoul - on 27 June 2019

gamingsoul said:

Funny how Norway has become the point of mesure for everyone, Norway happens to be one of the riches countries in the world, it’s also very small and homogenous, but yeah if they get socialism right anybody can.

i am not even sure if Norway qualifies as a socialist country

It doesn't. And that's the point. Quite a few of it's policies would be decried as socialist in the US, but the country is as far as it could get from being socialist - it just doesn't get screwed over by billionaires who get tax cuts every couple years who want all the wealth for themselves and not share it.

Last edited by Bofferbrauer2 - on 27 June 2019