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Why can't Dems presidential hopefuls pull this much people for any of their rallys? <20,000+

Forums - Politics Discussion - Why can't Dems presidential hopefuls pull this much people for any of their rallys? <20,000+

vivster said:
eva01beserk said:
@vivster
You do know a lot of the dems are running on socialism?

Dems run on social programs, which isn't the same as full on socialism. If what the dems are fighting for is Socialism then Germany is a fully socialist country. Even if Bernie had all of his wishes they'd still be merely catching up with other developed western countries. What Americans call "Socialism", every other developed nation calls "human decency" or "common sense".

I don't know what that has to do with anything though. All democratic candidates want the same thing. And even if some don't agree, the policies that are being pushed need approval from the whole party to get through, so it's not like that a radical Democrat would be able to push all of his radical agendas. That's how democracy works.

I think the best example that I could show you is California. You cant tell me that they are nt trying their best to as you call it"catch up to the EU". Its the worst ranking state in the US and before the insanity they where the best. Now the have the highest wealth inequality. The middle class shrinks every day. Homelessness as far as the eye can see. Rich neighborhoods gated. Thats what to many "social programs" do to an economy. The state has not yet taken the resources of the big corporations like google there cuz they know they will just flee to either another state, or out the country if need be.  Radical leftist have full reign in California and nobody stops they crazzy policies they put up and look what they have. 

Look, social programs are not a bad thing, dont get me wrong. But you have to realize that good intentions is not all takes to lead a nation. Inequality is a law of nature as all people are inherently different and as such different outcomes will result from it. Sadly because of it, some will end rich some poor. But its impossible to completely fix that gap that nature made. If all needs for the poor where met, like guaranteed housing, health care and food and education, they would not need to even get off the bed in the mourning. The more the needs are met, the less people will work to improve themselves. I say we do have to help the most needed out of some hardships, but never completely remove all hardships from them. 



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eva01beserk said:
vivster said:

Dems run on social programs, which isn't the same as full on socialism. If what the dems are fighting for is Socialism then Germany is a fully socialist country. Even if Bernie had all of his wishes they'd still be merely catching up with other developed western countries. What Americans call "Socialism", every other developed nation calls "human decency" or "common sense".

I don't know what that has to do with anything though. All democratic candidates want the same thing. And even if some don't agree, the policies that are being pushed need approval from the whole party to get through, so it's not like that a radical Democrat would be able to push all of his radical agendas. That's how democracy works.

I think the best example that I could show you is California. You cant tell me that they are nt trying their best to as you call it"catch up to the EU". Its the worst ranking state in the US and before the insanity they where the best. Now the have the highest wealth inequality. The middle class shrinks every day. Homelessness as far as the eye can see. Rich neighborhoods gated. Thats what to many "social programs" do to an economy. The state has not yet taken the resources of the big corporations like google there cuz they know they will just flee to either another state, or out the country if need be.  Radical leftist have full reign in California and nobody stops they crazzy policies they put up and look what they have. 

Look, social programs are not a bad thing, dont get me wrong. But you have to realize that good intentions is not all takes to lead a nation. Inequality is a law of nature as all people are inherently different and as such different outcomes will result from it. Sadly because of it, some will end rich some poor. But its impossible to completely fix that gap that nature made. If all needs for the poor where met, like guaranteed housing, health care and food and education, they would not need to even get off the bed in the mourning. The more the needs are met, the less people will work to improve themselves. I say we do have to help the most needed out of some hardships, but never completely remove all hardships from them. 

In what ranking is California the worst and they were the best? 



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Guys if you think Europe is so wonderful why don’t you live there? Is not that hard just find a job and you can stay as long as you want, escape from heartless America and enjoy your social utopia.
I am not going to explain why I don’t like Europe, you can do some research on your own all I can say is that I have been there a few times.
Why is everyone who is right wing, evil, nut job , crazy, fanatic?



gamingsoul said:
Guys if you think Europe is so wonderful why don’t you live there? Is not that hard just find a job and you can stay as long as you want, escape from heartless America and enjoy your social utopia.
I am not going to explain why I don’t like Europe, you can do some research on your own all I can say is that I have been there a few times.
Why is everyone who is right wing, evil, nut job , crazy, fanatic?

Lol, what makes you believe they do not live in Europe.  You do know that there are a lot of international people who attend this site.  You do not do yourself any favors with this post and it shows a level of ignorance to the people who post on this site.



gamingsoul said:
Guys if you think Europe is so wonderful why don’t you live there? Is not that hard just find a job and you can stay as long as you want, escape from heartless America and enjoy your social utopia.
I am not going to explain why I don’t like Europe, you can do some research on your own all I can say is that I have been there a few times.
Why is everyone who is right wing, evil, nut job , crazy, fanatic?

While cutting and running from the US is enticing sometimes (as funding for scientific research seems harder and harder to come by on this side of the pond and the general populous becomes less trusting of experts in their fields) I think I'd rather stick it out and try to make where I and all of my extended family live better rather than ditch for my own benefit. 

For your question, I think it comes from a "I've got mine so fuck everyone else mentality". Something that I'm afraid is very prevalent in the US. 



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eva01beserk said:
MrWayne said:

No that's not what I said, of course you can call Bernie a Socialist but equating him with Maduro is quite dishonest, it's like equating Rosa Luxemburg with Stalin.
Also just because a politician or partie is called socialist does not mean it actually is socialist, for example many center left parties in europe have Socialism or even Komunism in their name but they aren't socialist at all. You have to look at the concret policies.

Im not equating him to maduro, Im equating to chavez, the one who started it all. Like all socialism its all great and dandy in the beginning, as things start going south they slowly start taking from the rich then the middle class then when there is no one else to take from you get what was promised, no wealth inequality as everybody is poor now. Maduro already had a turd on his hand when it was handed to him.

The only thing missing for berni to be full socialist is the state appropriation of businesses. But like all socialism that is a last resort that inevitably end up resorting to, cuz guess what after a million examples, socialism does not work. 

You probably meant "state appropriation of all businesses", the word "all" is very important because almost all capitalist economies have some state owned businesses. The second sentence is also wrong, "state appropriation of all businesses" is the very first step in socialism and not a last resort, there is no socialism without the public ownership ( through the state or Worker cooperatives) of almost all businesses.

So Bernie missing this core characteristic of socialism in his policies is very important.



gamingsoul said:
Guys if you think Europe is so wonderful why don’t you live there? Is not that hard just find a job and you can stay as long as you want, escape from heartless America and enjoy your social utopia.
I am not going to explain why I don’t like Europe, you can do some research on your own all I can say is that I have been there a few times.
Why is everyone who is right wing, evil, nut job , crazy, fanatic?

Could you believe that some people love their country but also see the shortcomings and therefore try to make things better?



Stefan.De.Machtige said:
That's simple. Trump is likeable, interesting and sometimes down-to-earth guy. The democratic hopefuls aren't really any of that.

I don't know anybody who likes the company of pathological liars.

Sorry pal, but no billionaires are "down-to-earth". Perhaps you mean of below-average to average intellect?

I would walk 5000 miles to see this person though.



MrWayne said:
gamingsoul said:
Guys if you think Europe is so wonderful why don’t you live there? Is not that hard just find a job and you can stay as long as you want, escape from heartless America and enjoy your social utopia.
I am not going to explain why I don’t like Europe, you can do some research on your own all I can say is that I have been there a few times.
Why is everyone who is right wing, evil, nut job , crazy, fanatic?

Could you believe that some people love their country but also see the shortcomings and therefore try to make things better?

I understand that, but I just don’t think that Europe is the answer like so many people here claim, they have enough problems of their own.



gamingsoul said:
MrWayne said:

Could you believe that some people love their country but also see the shortcomings and therefore try to make things better?

I understand that, but I just don’t think that Europe is the answer like so many people here claim, they have enough problems of their own.

I don't think anyone wants to copy another country 1 to 1, that would be impossible. However If your country deals with a problem it is helpful to see how other countries managed the same problem. Nobody has to come up with completely new and unique ways to solve a problem when allready many solutions exist for this problem.

Also I think Europe and America excel in very different areas so why not try to combine the best parts of both worlds.

Last edited by MrWayne - on 24 June 2019