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Forums - Sony Discussion - Rumour: Sony's PS5 is definitely more powerful than Microsoft Project Scarlett

 

Which will be the more powerful?

PS5 53 63.86%
 
XB4 30 36.14%
 
Total:83
potato_hamster on 19 June 2019
RolStoppable said:
potato_hamster said:

Pemalite is a big boy and doesn't need you speaking on his behalf or namedropping him to try and lend yourself credibility. But, see he actually bases his opinion on verifiable facts, supports his opinion when question, and most importantly, consistently demonstrates that he has done the research and understands the things he talks about the vast majority of the time. You on the other hand... I've let you dig yourself into a fine little hole there, and you're obvious to it.

See, as it turns out, you actually don't have a clue what Moriarty said, do you? You just read the headlines. You've been making blind assumption after blind assumption, when all you had to do was listen to a minute long audio clip, and I'll demonstrate just how you let your opinion of him sway your better judgement, and just let yourself assume that what he said must lack credibility. So here. I did you a favor and transcribed it for you.

"[Reiner] had been hearing rumors and I had been hearing stuff like this too, but I don't know if it's true - that the next playstation is definitively more powerful than [Xbox Scarlett]. That people that have access to both [developer kits] for making games are saying the playstation is more powerful. Now that is a scary notion to me, because if a machine is running a game at 120 frames in 8K, I just don't believe that that's even possible. I think you have to choose one or the other. Otherwise this machine is gonna be extremely expensive and if Playstation 5 can do even better than this - and I don't think they're saying they can do better than 120 or 8K - but if it's more powerful then how much are these machines gonna cost?"

But please, let me distill that down into a TL:DR because it's you know, one paragraph has proven too much in this case: That he's saying that the PS5 Dev Kit is rumored to be more powerful than the Xbox Scarlett Dev Kit, and that this could mean the PS5 ends up being more powerful than the Xbox Scarlett, which could mean that the PS5 will be far more expensive than he would like it to be.

Sacre bleu! Incroyable! Stupefiant!

Look at those "it is a sure thing" bold statements! ...that he never actually made! 

What was that about "questionable assumptions"?
What was that about "hypocrisy"?
What was that about "Clueless Nintendo fans"?

And yes, it would be a dick move to question someone's Playstation fandom if they really liked what they saw in the Switch, and thought it could sell better than the DS, and saw everything going on with game streaming, liked what they saw there, and thought that Sony releasing nothing more than a more powerful PS4 (If that's what PS5 turns out to be) wasn't doing enough to maintain or expand their position in the home console space. Those aren't totally unreasonable opinions to have in the gaming community. It would literally mean that they're not some blind fanboy and are open and receptive to new gaming experiences, not just supporting the products one particular company makes because they made them. I also fail to see what's so unfathomable that someone who spent their childhood playing as Link, Samus, Mario, Star fox, Smash Bros etc. day after day, year after year, would have more fondness and love for those games and those consoles than they would for a brand that only came into relevancy much later and has had a revolving door of hit franchises, even if that's their platform of choice for the last decade or so. There are tens of millions of Playstation and Xbox owners who have very similar stories who still consider themselves Nintendo fans even if they haven't bought or owned a Nintendo console in 15 years. They're not wrong to call themselves that even if they found the SNES classic much more desirable than anything on the Switch.

Also, laughable that you act like the opinions of a moderator will sway you when you have tomes worth of posts doing nothing but criticizing, questioning, undermining, and distrusting everything they say and do, and showing complete and utter fits of unsubstantiated paranoia that the mod team has it out for you. But all I have to do is to get one of the mod team, who almost definitely has a poor opinion of you to agree with my posts, when I know you're paranoid enough to think they could be doing that out of pure spite? So, hey moderators, what say you ;)

This took an unexpected turn. You were sitting on the information that the article misquoted Moriarty and instead of correcting the OP, you used that information to take revenge on me. There were other people who dismissed Moriarty because of who he is and what he allegedly said on this topic, but you specifically picked out me which shows how deliberate you were in your approach. But despite going into this while having the upper hand, you somehow managed to botch it with rampant condescension and very poor arguments against the things that are true regardless of what Moriarty said or didn't say. These things being that the PS3 was more powerful than the 360 and that at this point in time there is no definitive answer to which console between the PS5 and Scarlett will be more powerful.

You may think that you look good and I look bad right now, but anyone who hasn't an inherent bias for one side or the other here will tell us that we both look bad the way this has played out. You might actually be worse off because of how vindictive you have acted.

Lastly, while some moderators have a poor opinion of me, I don't think anyone of them would stoop as low as endorsing your posts in this thread because it would damage the integrity of the mod team as a whole. You've put way too much condescension into your posts to get an approval, plus you behaved irrationally in response to the argument that at this point in time there cannot be a definitive answer to which console between the PS5 and Scarlett will be more powerful.

You still fail to understand that I honestly and truly do not care if I "look bad" to you or if your opinion of me has worsened.

Nah. I didn't sit on anything, and I certainly didn't take revenge on you. (Side note: How much of an ego do you have to have to think that your interactions with me on this site has impacted me in any type of negative way, much less enough for me to try to "get revenge" on you).

The OP didn't make a mistake here. You did. No one here was saying that Colin Moriarty claimed the PS5 was definitely more powerful than Xbox Scarlet besides you. Here's what the OP quoted from the article: Emphasis mine. "Some days ago Andrew hinted the PS5 could be stronger than the XB4 (for the sake of keeping it short), and now Colin has also said the same, but being a lot more strong about it, saying as far as what he heard, the PS5 is definitely more powerful than the XB4."

See, that's you making a terrible assumption. Not the OP. Not the article. You.

Also, it's pretty dishonest to act like I ignored other users to "attack" you. The only that was said about Colin before that was ""Is this the same Colin who said Microsoft tried to put Halo MCC on PS4? lol".

Then you chimed in with "Colin Moriarty is the prototype of a hardcore Sony fanboy, so if he's the sole source for "definitively more powerful" (according to the article he is), then this whole rumor can be dismissed as hearsay and wishful thinking. "

... yeah. Because that's totally not taken to another level of attacking the source's credibility. Not at all. In fact it's totally innocuous. Who would ever choose to respond to you over the other guy unless they had vengeance in mind! It's the only explanation!

And then I "botched" pointing out your assumptions that you pretend are facts? Says you, the same guy who just claimed I tried to dole out revenge on him, and actually had the thought that I ignored other people just to single you out, and now in some vain attempt to save face here you are trying to claim that even though you took all the rope I gave you, and you promptly, diligently and predictably hung yourself with it, I look bad too by methodically pointing out every time you treated your assumptions as facts, and let you embarrass yourself as I watched you dig your own hole deeper and deeper.

Do yourself a favor and go back and read my comments knowing that Colin never actually said the PS5 will definitely be more powerful than Xbox Scarlett. Notice how it only looks cringeworthy if you think that Colin has taken a bold leap and I'm trying to defend that leap? Well that sucks for whoever thought that, I guess.

You really think the mod teams cares if you think less of them, or have less integrity in your view? Amazing. Again, your opinion of the mod team is not an objective fact, it's just your single, pinion. As for whether a mod would support me? I bet a few of them are getting a bit of a kick out of your obvious embarrassment. I'll make you a deal. I'll check my condescension when dealing with you when you drop it dealing with everyone else, because if there's anything on this site that no one is going to give you credit for, it's having general respect for anyone who has an opinion you disagree with.

But whatever man, keep sitting on that house of cards pretending it's solid ground. Go write another few furious lines in that document you keep on me that you both refuse to acknowledge but also tellingly very refuse to deny. Hmm I wonder what it says about a person who keeps documentation and notes about other users on an anonymous message board where they have no authority, control, or responsibilities... I think we'll leave that for another day.

Have fun with that paper crown you made for yourself, Rol. Until next time.



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potato_hamster on 19 June 2019
RolStoppable said:
potato_hamster said:

You still fail to understand that I honestly and truly do not care if I "look bad" to you or if your opinion of me has worsened.

Nah. I didn't sit on anything, and I certainly didn't take revenge on you. (Side note: How much of an ego do you have to have to think that your interactions with me on this site has impacted me in any type of negative way, much less enough for me to try to "get revenge" on you).

The OP didn't make a mistake here. You did. No one here was saying that Colin Moriarty claimed the PS5 was definitely more powerful than Xbox Scarlet besides you. Here's what the OP quoted from the article: Emphasis mine. "Some days ago Andrew hinted the PS5 could be stronger than the XB4 (for the sake of keeping it short), and now Colin has also said the same, but being a lot more strong about it, saying as far as what he heard, the PS5 is definitely more powerful than the XB4."

See, that's you making a terrible assumption. Not the OP. Not the article. You.

Also, it's pretty dishonest to act like I ignored other users to "attack" you. The only that was said about Colin before that was ""Is this the same Colin who said Microsoft tried to put Halo MCC on PS4? lol".

Then you chimed in with "Colin Moriarty is the prototype of a hardcore Sony fanboy, so if he's the sole source for "definitively more powerful" (according to the article he is), then this whole rumor can be dismissed as hearsay and wishful thinking. "

... yeah. Because that's totally not taken to another level of attacking the source's credibility. Not at all. In fact it's totally innocuous. Who would ever choose to respond to you over the other guy unless they had vengeance in mind! It's the only explanation!

And then I "botched" pointing out your assumptions that you pretend are facts? Says you, the same guy who just claimed I tried to dole out revenge on him, and actually had the thought that I ignored other people just to single you out, and now in some vain attempt to save face here you are trying to claim that even though you took all the rope I gave you, and you promptly, diligently and predictably hung yourself with it, I look bad too by methodically pointing out every time you treated your assumptions as facts, and let you embarrass yourself as I watched you dig your own hole deeper and deeper.

Do yourself a favor and go back and read my comments knowing that Colin never actually said the PS5 will definitely be more powerful than Xbox Scarlett. Notice how it only looks cringeworthy if you think that Colin has taken a bold leap and I'm trying to defend that leap? Well that sucks for whoever thought that, I guess.

You really think the mod teams cares if you think less of them, or have less integrity in your view? Amazing. Again, your opinion of the mod team is not an objective fact, it's just your single, pinion. As for whether a mod would support me? I bet a few of them are getting a bit of a kick out of your obvious embarrassment. I'll make you a deal. I'll check my condescension when dealing with you when you drop it dealing with everyone else, because if there's anything on this site that no one is going to give you credit for, it's having general respect for anyone who has an opinion you disagree with.

But whatever man, keep sitting on that house of cards pretending it's solid ground. Go write another few furious lines in that document you keep on me that you both refuse to acknowledge but also tellingly very refuse to deny. Hmm I wonder what it says about a person who keeps documentation and notes about other users on an anonymous message board where they have no authority, control, or responsibilities... I think we'll leave that for another day.

Have fun with that paper crown you made for yourself, Rol. Until next time.

The OP says that Moriarty felt stronger about the PS5 being more powerful, but Moriarty's actual quote has him doubt the things that he has heard.

You complain about my ego to start your post and then conclude with the baseless claim that I have a document about you and other users. How ironic.

The difference between my accusations and yours is that the evidence for my accusations is right in this thread where you have posted several messages filled with condescension, plus you admit it in the third to last paragraph of the quoted post above that you have a reason, wrong as it may be, to be condescending to me on a consistent basis.

In regards to my reputation on this site, I am on good terms with people from all camps and that obviously includes plenty of instances of disagreement. The people who have a problem with me generally fall into the group that holds disdain for Nintendo and/or Nintendo fans, but this can't be avoided.

No. OP never says that Moriarty felt stronger. He said Moriarty's words were stronger. And they were. But here's the question Rol, did you even check to see if my quote or Moriarty was accurate? Have you even listened for yourself yet? Gosh. Wouldn't that be super embarrassing for you if I just made up that quote from Colin Moriarty, and you just never bothered to check? I sure hope that didn't happen.

You and I both know it's not a baseless claim that you document users activities and have quick links to quotes that users have said, likely organized by subject. For example, I bet you have a potato_hamster document with a reference to "Colin Moriarty" in it where you either have notes about conversations we've had about him, quotes I've made about him, links to posts I've made about him, or some combination of all three, so you can reference those posts for your purposes. This is obvious. You've shown your hand several times by showing several, organized linked quotes from several users made over a several year period posted within minutes of a user's comment when there was no way of you could have actually searched through those users post history to find all of those links and quotes within the time you responded, especially if that user has public access to their post history turned off. It had to have been prepared ahead of time. It's literally the only way for someone of your skill set.

So much dishonesty Rol. It doesn't matter if you don't want to admit that these documents exists (or did exist, there's no telling if you still have or maintain them)when the truth is right there for anyone who is paying attention to see. It's just speaks volumes about your character and integrity. As for my character, I'm totally fine with being condescending towards someone such as yourself. You lost any presumed respect you had with me a long time ago and have done literally nothing to earn it back. I'm totally comfortable with my attitude towards you.

And it's nice that you think you're on good terms with the mod team. Ohh, and I bet you think I'm one of those people that "holds disdain for Nintendo/Nintendo fans", don't you Rol? I bet that document you have containing links to several different posts I made that you feel would justify that claim as well.


But that's enough about that. This thread isn't about you and I. You're just going to take that hit to your pride and move on, and talk about Playstation 5, Xbox Scarlett or the sources reporting on them. Let's talk about that.



Trumpstyle on 19 June 2019
Pemalite said:
Trumpstyle said:

Hmm an verified insider has already confirmed that PS5 will also have hardware ray-tracing.

Then feel free to link me to it? Otherwise I'll throw it into the rumor basket and wait on legitimate sources.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/next-gen-ps5-and-next-xbox-speculation-launch-thread-ot5-its-in-rdna.120059/page-132

Post 6586 if link doesn't work.

thismeintiel said:
Interestingly, in the new DF video, he states that devs are very happy with the PS5, while not saying what they had to say about the XB4. Wonder if this is also hinting at the same thing.

Did you notice anything else in that video :) he said 8,3-8,4 Teraflops gpu with 36CU, now clocked at 1,8ghz they are a match. I have been saying 36CU clocked at 1,8ghz since april based on Navi 10 being rumored having 40CU and gonzalo showing a 1,8ghz GPU for PS5. Only issue is that a Navi gpu with 36CU clocked at 1,8ghz draws about 200Watt. The entire Xbox one X pulls about 180-200W.

But with Reiner, Colin saying PS5 being more powerful than Xbox anaconda it looks like Sony is building a 250W console.

Last edited by Trumpstyle - on 20 June 2019

6x master league achiever in starcraft2

Beaten Sigrun on God of war mode

Beaten DOOM ultra-nightmare with NO endless ammo-rune, 2x super shotgun and no decoys on ps4 pro.

1-0 against Grubby in Wc3 frozen throne ladder!!

KingofTrolls on 19 June 2019
melbye said:
But at the end of the day it won't mean shit which console is more powerful

Price/performance is the key to initial succes, that will give a huge upperhand later.



Pemalite on 19 June 2019
fordy said:

Though I wasn't talking about feature sets like MMX or 3DNow. Even if Intel and AMD both make x86/x64 processors, the way they meet the instruction set requirements can be achieved using vastly different methods. Some use direct hardware, and the level of complexity determines how many clock cycles a result can be returned. Intel themselves have been using Microcode from a RISC based internal module since the days of the P6. It's those differences where compilers optimised for certain manufacturer hardware comes into account; It's still instruction code compliant with all compatible hardware, but performs better with specific hardware.

Of course.
I just thought I would elaborate on those particular points... As whilst things like 3DNow! did gain traction for awhile, AMD's marketshare was never significant enough for it to gain industry wide support, hence why it was shuttled in the end.

fordy said:

As an example, Intel optimised x86 code can utilise answers from branch instructions quicker, thanks to their stupidly complex, yet surprisingly accurate branch predictor logic. Likewise, AMD has logic where code executed in a certain order can achieve a result quicker than Intel hardware. Methods like prefetching and ILP have also made a huge difference in optimisation considerations.

The same goes for IBM PowerPCs and Cell; both use the PowerPC instruction set, but achieved those outputs from different hardware methods.

Compilers optimised for certain hardware are hardly new. I started x86 programming in 1995, and I remember them being around then; Usually Intel, AMD and Cyrix.

I agree, but for simplicity sake, I try to keep the explanations simple so that other forum goers aren't lost.

AMD's branch predictors are probably rivaling Intels right now in Zen 2, Branch Prediction was always a massive strength of Intels going back to even Sandy Bridge, maybe even Core/Nahelem. - They invested a ton of effort to that end.

I have to admit, I never strictly "programmed" for the PC, I started on the Commodore 64 using Beginners All Purpose Symbolic Instruction Code... And tended to gravitate towards Objective C on the PC back in the 90's/early 2000's for it's ease of use. (Time is money and all that.)

Even assisted in a few projects like reverse engineering the shaders for Oblivion/Fallout 3/Bioshock to run on GPU's that those games were never designed to run on... Since haven't really done much, life changed course and priorities are different.

DonFerrari said:

I would have no issue with anyone saying MS is aiming to have the most powerful or if that was their objective or roadmap.

But there is no legal way MS could be 100% sure as those people claimed. They can't make a contract with AMD with "assure XB4 HW is at least 10% more powerful than PS5" or discover the power of PS5 without spying. So there is no way MS could be certain. They could of course make a 800USD HW selling for 400USD that they think Sony wouldn't ever go above it, but nothing would stop Sony from doing it.

This. Until we actually have Microsoft and Sony outright state their hardware specifications, we honestly have no idea which platform is more powerful, we can always speak in hypothetical's and what-ifs, but it's not going to be productive either way, just the same old endless circle.

Microsoft and Sony wouldn't have any clue on what the other company is cooking up either.

Trumpstyle said:
Pemalite said:

Then feel free to link me to it? Otherwise I'll throw it into the rumor basket and wait on legitimate sources.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/next-gen-ps5-and-next-xbox-speculation-launch-thread-ot5-its-in-rdna.120059/page-132

Post 6587 if link doesn't work.

Cheers. Hopefully it turns out to be true. Having feature set parity would mean big things.

Still not a source as legitimate as directly from AMD or Sony though.

At the end of the day when Sony approached AMD for building their next-gen chip, AMD would have given Sony all the same options it would have given Microsoft on the table, so we can assume they made the right choices.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--