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Forums - Gaming Discussion - MS reveal of ballpark of Scarlett

DonFerrari on 17 June 2019
Pemalite said:
SvennoJ said:

It's not accurate and not a great measure, but as comparison sort of useful to understand that 24 terraflops gpu (4x the X) is out of the question. X was a big upgrade in 4 years going up in price, Scarlett 3 years later with many other upgraded components can't afford that kind of GPU power when currently 16 is the consumer max.

You don't need 4x the Teraflops of the Xbox One X to have 4x the GPU performance.

Scarlett's Navi-based GPU is NOT the same as the PC variant, it's taking features/tricks from RDNA2/AMD's next gen GPU architecture.
Navi on the PC has 25% IPC uplift over Vega (GCN 5.0).
Vega (GCN 5.) had a 5-10% IPC uplift over Fury (GCN 3.0).

The Xbox One X's GPU is derived from GCN 1.0 as that is the base hardware that the Original Xbox One is derived from with some new tricks taken from Polaris (GCN 4.0) so there are significant gains to be had irrespective of the teraflop number.
GCN is extremely modular so AMD was able to take some forward features and backport it to older GCN designs for various markets.

Using your best judgement on the gain in efficiencies and architecture, minding that Tflops is quite pointless as well. At which Tflop count more or less for the architecture of PS5/XB4 we would reach about 4x more performance than X1X?

Last edited by DonFerrari - on 17 June 2019

duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

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CuCabeludo on 17 June 2019

People need to understand that 4x faster doesn't mean 24 TFLOPS GPU, maybe it will come with a 10-14 TFLOP GPU range but the architecture of the console as a whole will provide 4 times+ the performance of the current xbx.

Last edited by CuCabeludo - on 17 June 2019

DonFerrari on 17 June 2019
trasharmdsister12 said:
DonFerrari said:

Using your best judgement on the gain in efficiencies and architecture, minding that Tflops is quite pointless as well. At which Tflop count more or less for the architecture of PS5/XB4 we would reach about 4x more performance than X1X?

We can do a very rough estimate with some basic math and assumptions. Let's assume GCN 1-2, 2-3, 3-4, and 4-5 all have a roughly 7.5% efficiency advantage while 5 to Navi (RDNA) has 25% as listed above by Pema. 

6 TF * 0.925 * 0.925 * 0.925 * 0.925 * 0.75 = 3.29 TF

So we're looking at roughly a 3.3 TF Navi GPU to reach similar performance to the XB1X, theoretically. 4x that is roughly 13.2 TF. 

This is all extremely rudimentary and depending on other hardware changes made by MS/Sony, I'd wager anything between 12 and 14.5 TF would be the range for 4x. 

That would be a "little" above the 10Tf ceiling a good portion is expecting, and 14.5Tf is above most expectations. But 12Tf is probably where the "majority" would expect both systems to hover about and would give the 4x gain of your calculation.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

drkohler on 17 June 2019
DonFerrari said:

But 12Tf is probably where the "majority" would expect both systems to hover about and would give the 4x gain of your calculation.

Good luck with that. The new Radeon 5700XT is 9.75TFlops and draws 225Watt (probably a lot more with boost clock temporarily enabled). People want a console SoC with 12TFlop? That's 300W, not even counting the cpu which certainly draws at least 35W (unless it is clocked way below 3GHz).

Some people (particularly on game forums) are simply delusional when it comes to "TFlops".



Pemalite on 17 June 2019
trasharmdsister12 said:
DonFerrari said:

Using your best judgement on the gain in efficiencies and architecture, minding that Tflops is quite pointless as well. At which Tflop count more or less for the architecture of PS5/XB4 we would reach about 4x more performance than X1X?

We can do a very rough estimate with some basic math and assumptions. Let's assume GCN 1-2, 2-3, 3-4, and 4-5 all have a roughly 7.5% efficiency advantage while 5 to Navi (RDNA) has 25% as listed above by Pema. 

6 TF * 0.925 * 0.925 * 0.925 * 0.925 * 0.75 = 3.29 TF

So we're looking at roughly a 3.3 TF Navi GPU to reach similar performance to the XB1X, theoretically. 4x that is roughly 13.2 TF. 

This is all extremely rudimentary and depending on other hardware changes made by MS/Sony, I'd wager anything between 12 and 14.5 TF would be the range for 4x. 

That is probably a guesstimate that is as good as any.

One thing we should remember is that... These CPU's are going to be the largest step-up generation over generation that we have seen for a very long time... So some tasks like particle effects and so on could be shifted back from the GPU and done on the CPU, freeing up more GPU resources.

drkohler said:
DonFerrari said:

But 12Tf is probably where the "majority" would expect both systems to hover about and would give the 4x gain of your calculation.

Good luck with that. The new Radeon 5700XT is 9.75TFlops and draws 225Watt (probably a lot more with boost clock temporarily enabled). People want a console SoC with 12TFlop? That's 300W, not even counting the cpu which certainly draws at least 35W (unless it is clocked way below 3GHz).

Some people (particularly on game forums) are simply delusional when it comes to "TFlops".

7nm isn't a refined process yet, it's still early days, RNDA isn't a perfectly balanced architecture either.

A 12 teraflop console GPU is entirely possible at 7nm for 200w~. - But it's actual gaming performance will be substantially less optimal than Navi.



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