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Witcher 3 revealed for the Switch!

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RolStoppable said:
HoangNhatAnh said:

It also said: "Compared to discs, Nintendo Switch cartridges are not easy to produce in mass quantities. On one hand, a Switch cartridge is flash storage, not unlike an SD card. On the other, Switch cartridges have a unique shape and size. Discs — whether they're CDs, DVDs, or Blu-Rays — pretty much take on the same form. The Nintendo Switch cartridge format, however, is a unique beast. If a Switch cartridge looked like an SD card, Nintendo could take advantage of the countless manufacturing facilities pumping those cards out. But it's not. So Nintendo must work with partners to create this very special type of flash storage card, and that makes the process more expensive.

It's the downside of choosing a proprietary storage format. And it's why you sometimes see new Switch games that cost $10+ more than their Xbox One and PlayStation 4 counterparts.

The cost of a Switch cartridge becomes an even bigger factor when you consider the size of different games. According to Eurogamer, Nintendo Switch cartridges come in 1 GB, 2 GB, 4 GB, 8 GB, 16 GB, and 32 GB flavors. The smaller-capacity cartridges don't cost as much as the larger ones, which works out for tinier games. Then again, those games are often indie titles that opt for an eShop-only release, negating the cartridge entirely."

So both data size and the production of cart played a part in this matter.

It's a very poor article that lacks objectivity. Instead it runs with the usual "games are more expensive and it's all Nintendo's fault" story. Something that the Eurogamer article they cite is also guilty of.

If objectivity was applied, such an article would cite examples where third parties applied price hikes with no justifiable reason whatsoever, but such examples are conveniently omitted to put the blame solely on Nintendo. It's a display of lacking critical thinking, so yet another example why gaming journalism isn't proper journalism, because it opts to more or less copy-paste faulty reasoning that was posted by other gaming websites before.

If pressing cards of a different physical size than the norm would be expensive, then that should have hampered DS game prices and especially 3DS game prices too (3DS cards come in an odd form that makes them impossible to insert in a DS console). Similarly, GameCube games should have been more expensive because the console didn't use the DVD format, but GC games didn't cost more than PS2 and Xbox games.

The kind of nonsensical reasoning in relation to Switch game cards stems from the fact that gaming websites do not want to accept the line of thinking that in most cases it could be as simple as third parties trying to screw over gamers. Those same third parties who try every trick in the books to nickel and dime gamers across all platforms are suddenly saints when the topic is about a Nintendo console.

Resident Evil Revelation used 4GB cart on 3ds and Capcom nearly sold it at $50, right? N64 cart cost a lot too, the bigger ones are more expensive. Whether this article is true or not, it pointed out some undeniable facts about the data size and the production of cart which could affect the price a lot



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HoangNhatAnh said:
RolStoppable said:

It's a very poor article that lacks objectivity. Instead it runs with the usual "games are more expensive and it's all Nintendo's fault" story. Something that the Eurogamer article they cite is also guilty of.

If objectivity was applied, such an article would cite examples where third parties applied price hikes with no justifiable reason whatsoever, but such examples are conveniently omitted to put the blame solely on Nintendo. It's a display of lacking critical thinking, so yet another example why gaming journalism isn't proper journalism, because it opts to more or less copy-paste faulty reasoning that was posted by other gaming websites before.

If pressing cards of a different physical size than the norm would be expensive, then that should have hampered DS game prices and especially 3DS game prices too (3DS cards come in an odd form that makes them impossible to insert in a DS console). Similarly, GameCube games should have been more expensive because the console didn't use the DVD format, but GC games didn't cost more than PS2 and Xbox games.

The kind of nonsensical reasoning in relation to Switch game cards stems from the fact that gaming websites do not want to accept the line of thinking that in most cases it could be as simple as third parties trying to screw over gamers. Those same third parties who try every trick in the books to nickel and dime gamers across all platforms are suddenly saints when the topic is about a Nintendo console.

Resident Evil Revelation used 4GB cart on 3ds and Capcom nearly sold it at $50, right? N64 cart cost a lot too, the bigger ones are more expensive. Whether this article is true or not, it pointed out some undeniable facts about the data size and the production of cart which could affect the price a lot

Not going to get involved in this debate, but comparjng N64 cartridges to Switch game cards is not really appropriate.  Very different technology,  very different fabrication process.  N64 cartridges were so expensive as to make selling N64 games at the same price as most single disc PS1 games literally unprofitable.  Switch game cards are not in that price range, it's more about eating into margins not erasing them.



curl-6 said:
HoloDust said:

Never said it's as easy as turning down settings - though turning them down in ini files will get you all the way to even less than third of minimum recommended specs, while still looking fairly good.

What I said is this is the least effort portjob, which translates in least money spent. And given that they've sold 20 million copies and there's 35 million Switches out there...yeah, I'd say they could've gone an extra mile.

Even just doing it this way though is still a massive undertaking, there is nothing run of the mill about taking an open world game that struggles to hold 30fps even on PS4 and getting it to run on handheld device. Conversions of this magnitude are extremely rare nowadays, I can't even think of the last time the industry saw an official port this ambitious.

No doubt about it, it most ambitious port to date when it comes to Switch - yet, and I said that before, I fail to see anything that is not a massive scaling back of right about everything possible...and that's what makes it run-of-the-mill port, in execution, maybe just on larger scale.

If there was custom art or something similar to what I've suggested then that would be really something that stands out from other similar ports.

But, all this comes down to how much money is publisher (not)willing to spend on the port, and I can't say I'm not somewhat dissapointed with CDRP on this matter.



HoangNhatAnh said:

Resident Evil Revelation used 4GB cart on 3ds and Capcom nearly sold it at $50, right? N64 cart cost a lot too, the bigger ones are more expensive. Whether this article is true or not, it pointed out some undeniable facts about the data size and the production of cart which could affect the price a lot

Yes, Capcom nearly did that. Then they realized that their greed wouldn't be worth the backlash and lost sales, so they changed their mind.

Anyone who uses the words 'card' and 'cart' interchangeably instantly loses credibility on this topic. The article you linked committed the very same mistake. Someone who doesn't grasp that there are big differences between cards and carts lacks the competence to write about the topic and is definitely not a credible source.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV (360+PS3) would outsell SSBB. I was wrong.

A Biased Review Reloaded / Open Your Eyes / Switch Gamers Club

RolStoppable said:
HoangNhatAnh said:

Resident Evil Revelation used 4GB cart on 3ds and Capcom nearly sold it at $50, right? N64 cart cost a lot too, the bigger ones are more expensive. Whether this article is true or not, it pointed out some undeniable facts about the data size and the production of cart which could affect the price a lot

Yes, Capcom nearly did that. Then they realized that their greed wouldn't be worth the backlash and lost sales, so they changed their mind.

Anyone who uses the words 'card' and 'cart' interchangeably instantly loses credibility on this topic. The article you linked committed the very same mistake. Someone who doesn't grasp that there are big differences between cards and carts lacks the competence to write about the topic and is definitely not a credible source.

I see this mistake happen a lot, and it's weird. It makes me wonder if there are Playstation fans who call the PS4 medium CDs?



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

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Nuvendil said:
HoangNhatAnh said:

Resident Evil Revelation used 4GB cart on 3ds and Capcom nearly sold it at $50, right? N64 cart cost a lot too, the bigger ones are more expensive. Whether this article is true or not, it pointed out some undeniable facts about the data size and the production of cart which could affect the price a lot

Not going to get involved in this debate, but comparjng N64 cartridges to Switch game cards is not really appropriate.  Very different technology,  very different fabrication process.  N64 cartridges were so expensive as to make selling N64 games at the same price as most single disc PS1 games literally unprofitable.  Switch game cards are not in that price range, it's more about eating into margins not erasing them.

But cartridge is always more expensive than disc with the same data size, isn't it?

RolStoppable said:
HoangNhatAnh said:

Resident Evil Revelation used 4GB cart on 3ds and Capcom nearly sold it at $50, right? N64 cart cost a lot too, the bigger ones are more expensive. Whether this article is true or not, it pointed out some undeniable facts about the data size and the production of cart which could affect the price a lot

Yes, Capcom nearly did that. Then they realized that their greed wouldn't be worth the backlash and lost sales, so they changed their mind.

Anyone who uses the words 'card' and 'cart' interchangeably instantly loses credibility on this topic. The article you linked committed the very same mistake. Someone who doesn't grasp that there are big differences between cards and carts lacks the competence to write about the topic and is definitely not a credible source.

Credible or not, two points of it is very correct, the data size and the manufacturing cost of cartridge are mostly the biggest reasons here



Regarding card costs, Capcom of all companies recently released Dragon's Dogma on a 16GB card for $30 USD. If it's viable to do that, then the argument that Switch cards are so horribly expensive that poor third parties just can't afford them is pure BS.

HoloDust said:
curl-6 said:

Even just doing it this way though is still a massive undertaking, there is nothing run of the mill about taking an open world game that struggles to hold 30fps even on PS4 and getting it to run on handheld device. Conversions of this magnitude are extremely rare nowadays, I can't even think of the last time the industry saw an official port this ambitious.

No doubt about it, it most ambitious port to date when it comes to Switch - yet, and I said that before, I fail to see anything that is not a massive scaling back of right about everything possible...and that's what makes it run-of-the-mill port, in execution, maybe just on larger scale.

If there was custom art or something similar to what I've suggested then that would be really something that stands out from other similar ports.

But, all this comes down to how much money is publisher (not)willing to spend on the port, and I can't say I'm not somewhat dissapointed with CDRP on this matter.

Well, that's the thing, we can see where they've cut back asset quality, but we can't see all the extra work they would've had to do under the hood, stuff you can't see in a screenshot like CPU-side optimizations, etc.

A lot more effort would've had to go into a port of this nature than just the obvious visible concessions.

Honestly, as someone who plans to buy this port, I'd rather it look like this than, as someone suggested in an earlier post, like Borderlands.

Last edited by curl-6 - on 17 June 2019

HoangNhatAnh said:
RolStoppable said:

Yes, Capcom nearly did that. Then they realized that their greed wouldn't be worth the backlash and lost sales, so they changed their mind.

Anyone who uses the words 'card' and 'cart' interchangeably instantly loses credibility on this topic. The article you linked committed the very same mistake. Someone who doesn't grasp that there are big differences between cards and carts lacks the competence to write about the topic and is definitely not a credible source.

Credible or not, two points of it is very correct, the data size and the manufacturing cost of cartridge are mostly the biggest reasons here

No, that's not correct. The biggest reason for price hikes is the greed of third parties. From the beginning there has been no consistency in the Switch tax occuring or not. It has always been a per case basis with different publishers and those publishers who raised the prices banked on the ignorance of gamers, namely the belief that cards and carts are the same thing and therefore cards are a medium that is prohibitively expensive.

Legitimate cases of price increases, such as Dragon Quest Heroes 1+2 which launched in spring 2017 on a 32 GB card, have been the exception among games that had a Switch tax.

Even in 2019 we continue to run into strong inconsistencies, such as Dragon's Dogma launching on a 16 GB card for $30 while concurrently two other Capcom games (Resident Evil and Resident Evil Zero) are sold for $10 more each than on other consoles and the physical version puts only one of the games on a 16 GB card for $60 with the other game being included as a download code. Logically, this double pack should have easily been $40 in this form along with $20 price tags for both games on the eShop; alternatively, the $60 price tag for the physical version would have more than made up for the use of a 32 GB card with both games being on the card. That's not a problem with game cards, that's a problem entirely with Capcom.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV (360+PS3) would outsell SSBB. I was wrong.

A Biased Review Reloaded / Open Your Eyes / Switch Gamers Club

RolStoppable said:
HoangNhatAnh said:

Credible or not, two points of it is very correct, the data size and the manufacturing cost of cartridge are mostly the biggest reasons here

No, that's not correct. The biggest reason for price hikes is the greed of third parties. From the beginning there has been no consistency in the Switch tax occuring or not. It has always been a per case basis with different publishers and those publishers who raised the prices banked on the ignorance of gamers, namely the belief that cards and carts are the same thing and therefore cards are a medium that is prohibitively expensive.

Legitimate cases of price increases, such as Dragon Quest Heroes 1+2 which launched in spring 2017 on a 32 GB card, have been the exception among games that had a Switch tax.

Even in 2019 we continue to run into strong inconsistencies, such as Dragon's Dogma launching on a 16 GB card for $30 while concurrently two other Capcom games (Resident Evil and Resident Evil Zero) are sold for $10 more each than on other consoles and the physical version puts only one of the games on a 16 GB card for $60 with the other game being included as a download code. Logically, this double pack should have easily been $40 in this form along with $20 price tags for both games on the eShop; alternatively, the $60 price tag for the physical version would have more than made up for the use of a 32 GB card with both games being on the card. That's not a problem with game cards, that's a problem entirely with Capcom.

You mean the same reason why N64 cart is more expensive than ps1 CD disc?