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(UPDATE): AMD Unveil RX 5000 (Navi) with their new architecture design, Interview with Lisa SU, Ray Tracing detail on another SKU's variant, PCIe 4.0 help fast loading on PS5

Forums - Gaming Discussion - (UPDATE): AMD Unveil RX 5000 (Navi) with their new architecture design, Interview with Lisa SU, Ray Tracing detail on another SKU's variant, PCIe 4.0 help fast loading on PS5

Console gamer (Playstation fans especially ) how will you response

Yes 3 14.29%
 
No 4 19.05%
 
It's happening 3 14.29%
 
i dont know how to response 1 4.76%
 
i am not interested in powah 0 0.00%
 
Yes bring it on 3 14.29%
 
Playstation 5 will be a Super Beast 7 33.33%
 
Total:21

Unfortunately the information is pretty scarce at the moment, but according to WCCF the 64 CU limit is gone and according to a leak by KOMACHI there are 8 SEs in Navi 10, which would be very good news if true. That would mean we will see performance improvements in the geometry/rasterizer/zROP bound workloads, which becomes more prominent when scaling beyond 40 CUs (10CU/SE). Most likely the 64 ROP limit has been increased as well even though the midrange cards to be introduced in July probably won't feature more than 64 ROPs.

It will be interesting to see where the 25% IPC comes from and under what conditions they have measured it. Some will come from the improved cache and most likely widened data paths into the CUs as well as some new instructions, but it's unlikley that would yield a 25% IPC. Introducing separate integer units in the CUs similar to Turing could be one explanation but I'm sure AMD would have touted that if that was the case, so the IPC increase probably comes from several minor improvments.

All in all, at least some notable improvements from AMD, even though they still lag nVidia by quite a bit, and good news for the PS5, in particular the performance/watt improvements. Still no confirmation that Navi supports VRS, which when utilized properly can give a significant performance boost (I'm pretty sure PS5 will support it though, but that's pure speculation on my behalf). Hopefully AMD will be more informative at E3.



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Strange Brigade demo? It's a known AMD-friendly title. That's kind of shady. This sounds like GCN rebranded with some new features. Like Maxwell -> Pascal. I also wonder about the power consumption. If this is anywhere close to 200W, that's... very bad.

At least Ryzen is looking pretty good.



 

 

 

 

 

I wonder how scalable this will be. Will it be possible to produce a higher end chip with this that's closer to the 2080? If not I see dark times for people who expect a 10+TFLOPS console.



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Trumpstyle said:
Pemalite said:



How do you know Navi's size? Anandtech pegs the GPU as a monolithic part.

As for pitting it up against nVidia... Navi only bested the Geforce 2070 by 10% in a title that favors Graphics Core Next.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/14412/amd-teases-first-navi-gpu-products-rx-5700-series-in-july-25-improved-perf

I don't know the die size, Lisa Su said it was small on stage and I assume it's a midrange card putting it about 200mm2.

Yep amd has about 18% advantage in Strange bigarde so its average performance should land a bit below geforce 2070 but I think this is a cut-down card. A sapphire PR spokeperson said amd will be launching 2 cards in july, a $400 card and a $500 card, so this fit perfectly with the $400 card. It wouldn't make much sense for amd to launch this for $500 if it has less performance than geforce 2070 but the same price.

Edit: It looks like Nvidia released a new driver in April that improved performance in strange bigarde by 15% in 1440p and 25% in 4k so we're not sure what we looking at.

Looking at game benchmarks again, this card should land slightly below geforce 2070 in average benchmarks if amd was using nvidias latest drivers, Amd just had a much bigger advantage in strange bigard than I thought. This is average benchmarks on the site techpowerup. I hope they are not planning to sell this card for $500.

If this thing is $400 at retail I will be highly amazed if PS5 uses it. PS4 essentially used a desktop GPU that cost $180 at retail at the time PS4 released. Sony would be losing money if they put a $400 at retail GPU into PS5 (probably $300 for them since they buy in bulk and get special deals), and I recall them saying that they don't want to sell hardware at a loss anymore. 

What happened to the rumor from about 2 month's ago that the 5800 would cost $280-320 with the 5700 coming in around $220-250 (right in the price range range for potential PS5 usage)? 

Last edited by shikamaru317 - on 27 May 2019

Straffaren666 said:

Unfortunately the information is pretty scarce at the moment, but according to WCCF the 64 CU limit is gone and according to a leak by KOMACHI there are 8 SEs in Navi 10, which would be very good news if true. That would mean we will see performance improvements in the geometry/rasterizer/zROP bound workloads, which becomes more prominent when scaling beyond 40 CUs (10CU/SE). Most likely the 64 ROP limit has been increased as well even though the midrange cards to be introduced in July probably won't feature more than 64 ROPs.

It will be interesting to see where the 25% IPC comes from and under what conditions they have measured it. Some will come from the improved cache and most likely widened data paths into the CUs as well as some new instructions, but it's unlikley that would yield a 25% IPC. Introducing separate integer units in the CUs similar to Turing could be one explanation but I'm sure AMD would have touted that if that was the case, so the IPC increase probably comes from several minor improvments.

All in all, at least some notable improvements from AMD, even though they still lag nVidia by quite a bit, and good news for the PS5, in particular the performance/watt improvements. Still no confirmation that Navi supports VRS, which when utilized properly can give a significant performance boost (I'm pretty sure PS5 will support it though, but that's pure speculation on my behalf). Hopefully AMD will be more informative at E3.

Finally a wise man comment, i can see a bit optimisme from your side, all this previous people has been dark, gloomy and an underestimate comment LOL. 



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About the die size of this Navi card. I found one reddit comment on this:

"The Navi BGA package has about 40% more pins than the Polaris 10 package (searched google images "rx 580 bga"), so it's NOT the same package; but if for the sake of calculations we say they are the same size, then it looks like Navi is almost the exact same size Polaris 10 is at 230 mm2.https://i.imgur.com/wHoPxze.png"

And this tweet:

The tweet is probably correct, those people are experts, we probably looking at a Navi card with 275mm2 die size with very close performance to geforce 2070, so it's a bit worse than I expected ):



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shikamaru317 said:
Trumpstyle said:

I don't know the die size, Lisa Su said it was small on stage and I assume it's a midrange card putting it about 200mm2.

Yep amd has about 18% advantage in Strange bigarde so its average performance should land a bit below geforce 2070 but I think this is a cut-down card. A sapphire PR spokeperson said amd will be launching 2 cards in july, a $400 card and a $500 card, so this fit perfectly with the $400 card. It wouldn't make much sense for amd to launch this for $500 if it has less performance than geforce 2070 but the same price.

Edit: It looks like Nvidia released a new driver in April that improved performance in strange bigarde by 15% in 1440p and 25% in 4k so we're not sure what we looking at.

Looking at game benchmarks again, this card should land slightly below geforce 2070 in average benchmarks if amd was using nvidias latest drivers, Amd just had a much bigger advantage in strange bigard than I thought. This is average benchmarks on the site techpowerup. I hope they are not planning to sell this card for $500.

If this thing is $400 at retail I will be highly amazed if PS5 uses it. PS4 essentially used a desktop GPU that cost $180 at retail at the time PS4 released. Sony would be losing money if they put a $400 at retail GPU into PS5 (probably $300 for them since they buy in bulk and get special deals), and I recall them saying that they don't want to sell hardware at a loss anymore. 

What happened to the rumor from about 2 month's ago that the 5800 would cost $280-320 with the 5700 coming in around $220-250 (right in the price range range for potential PS5 usage)? 

Sony doesn't pay retail prices, they pay wafer costs + margins to AMD, now we know why the gonzalo codename said it was a navi 10 lite. Amd and Sony has probably done some customizations to Navi 10 to reduce the die size, they need to get it down to about 200-210mm2 to fit 8core zen2 cpu in a 350mm2 apu/soc.

Not sure what rumors you talking about, I'm assuming adoredtv, they were fake dude. He got tricked, stuff like that can happen.

About gpu prices for PC, I expect them to come down big when Nvidia launches their 7nm gpu lineup.



"Donald Trump is the greatest president that god has ever created" - Trumpstyle

6x master league achiever in starcraft2

Beaten Sigrun on God of war mode

Beaten DOOM ultra-nightmare with NO endless ammo-rune, 2x super shotgun and no decoys on ps4 pro.

1-0 against Grubby in Wc3 frozen throne ladder!!

So my PC will essentially be good enough for the whole next console generation.

Nice.



Official member of VGC's Nintendo family, approved by the one and only RolStoppable. I feel honored.

OdinHades said:
So my PC will essentially be good enough for the whole next console generation.

Nice.

Specs?



                                                                                                             

JRPGfan said:
AMD cards seem to age very well (better than nvidia counterparts), which I suspect also partly comes down to their drivers not being at as good a state, early in the life cycle as nvidia cards (when launched).

As long as its for a decent price... being ~10% ahead of a 2070 isnt to bad.

AMD aging better is probably just down to benchmarking new games transitioning to new gfx APIs ... 

Being moderately faster tham a 2070 is easy enough when Vega 64 matched it but the hardest part for AMD is going to be finding another tier of performance so that it can get closer to the 2080 ...