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Switch overtakes total PS4 sales in Japan, in less than half the time

Forums - Sales Discussion - Switch overtakes total PS4 sales in Japan, in less than half the time

Wyrdness said:
0D0 said:

Except Nintendo has left the home console market.

It's so fun, your turn. :)

Leaving a market means not competing in it unfortunately for your argument Switch is competing in it which makes you argument false by default side stepping this fact doesn't do anything for your argument.

Is trying to avoid a discussion that has been discussed for ages in all forums of the internet a thousand times since NSW was released and that in the end will not change, side stepping?

TruckOSaurus said:
0D0 said:

You missed when I said that I committed a mistake in my statement regarding 12 months. Incorrect exaggeration.

0D0 said:

"Wii was an exception. NES and SNES barely had competition.

My mistake was saying 12 months. Wii U had Smash, MK, Mario 2D, Mario 3D, DKC, Zelda. This is "almost every big franchise"."

Regarding exceptions. I don't make general rule statements considering exceptions. If you do, you and me can't have a proper discussion. Every time I discuss Nintendo, I always remove Wii or I add it as a bubble and exception, not as a rule to Nintendo's home console business performance. Nintendo has never had a home console with that performance after Sony entered the market. Actually, Nintendo home console business has been shrinking since Nintendo's first home console. That's the Nintendo home console sales rule (except Wii). If I were a Nintendo sales analyst, I'd always put Wii on parenthesis.

You may disagree with that, but there's no way round it with me. The same with NSW that I'll never consider part of the home console business. An army of people can tell me I'm wrong based on a thousand reasons, which is fair but I don't care.

The premisses that I don't discuss and I don't negotiate:

- Nintendo home console business has been decreasing since ever (except Wii) from 60m NES to 13m Wii U.

- Nintendo left the home console business after Wii U.

- God exists.

All impossible to prove statements! Neat!

Can you prove the contrary?

Prove that Nintendo home console sales hasn't been decreasing since NES, that Nintendo still has a current generation home console for sale and that God doesn't exist for sure. :)

RolStoppable said:
TruckOSaurus said:

All impossible to prove statements! Neat!

At least it's honest. It doesn't happen often that someone outright says that it's not possible to have a reasonable discussion with them.

I'm having a reasonable discussion.

We can both deploy brilliant logic expressions, but the results will depend based on the basic premises.

The premise that NSW is a home console just because you can also play at home doesn't work for me. NSW is an entirely different beast than a current gen standard home console. It's totally different in technology, specs, screen, portability, etc.

Call it hybrid. But a home console like PS4/X1. It's not. It's more a tablet like iPad than a home console like PS4/X1.



My Total Sales prediction for PS4 by the end of 2021: 110m+

When PS4 will hit 100m consoles sold: Before Christmas 2019

There were three ravens sat on a tree / They were as blacke as they might be / The one of them said to his mate, Where shall we our breakfast take?


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0D0 said:

You missed when I said that I committed a mistake in my statement regarding 12 months. Incorrect exaggeration.

0D0 said:

"Wii was an exception. NES and SNES barely had competition.

My mistake was saying 12 months. Wii U had Smash, MK, Mario 2D, Mario 3D, DKC, Zelda. This is "almost every big franchise"."

What is your point though?

Wii U had some big franchises release on it. So what? 

What does that have to do with Switch outselling the PS4 in Japan?

Last edited by curl-6 - on 05 June 2019

0D0 said:
curl-6 said:

Exceptions still exist and count.

Regarding the second bit, you're being a bit confusing here, what exactly is your point? You were talking about the Switch selling cos of Wii U games and having all Nintendo's big franchises in its first year, now you seemed to have sidestepped into talking about Wii U's lifetime library? Either I missed something or your posts aren't making any sense.

You missed when I said that I committed a mistake in my statement regarding 12 months. Incorrect exaggeration.

0D0 said:

"Wii was an exception. NES and SNES barely had competition.

My mistake was saying 12 months. Wii U had Smash, MK, Mario 2D, Mario 3D, DKC, Zelda. This is "almost every big franchise"."

Regarding exceptions. I don't make general rule statements considering exceptions. If you do, you and me can't have a proper discussion. Every time I discuss Nintendo, I always remove Wii or I add it as a bubble and exception, not as a rule to Nintendo's home console business performance. Nintendo has never had a home console with that performance after Sony entered the market. Actually, Nintendo home console business has been shrinking since Nintendo's first home console. That's the Nintendo home console sales rule (except Wii). If I were a Nintendo sales analyst, I'd always put Wii on parenthesis.

You may disagree with that, but there's no way round it with me. The same with NSW that I'll never consider part of the home console business. An army of people can tell me I'm wrong based on a thousand reasons, which is fair but I don't care.

The premisses that I don't discuss and I don't negotiate:

- Nintendo home console business has been decreasing since ever (except Wii) from 60m NES to 13m Wii U.

- Nintendo left the home console business after Wii U.

- God exists.

"Nintendo's homeconsoles have declined as long as I exclude the Wii."

I have a feeling you are starting from the conclusion and working backwards. You want to say Nintendo is in decline and the Wii and Switch throw a wrench in that. Thus, you redefine them so your thesis can be right. If your thesis requires you to remove information or ignore it, then your flat out wrong. You might want to go back to the drawing board. 



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0D0 said:
RolStoppable said:

At least it's honest. It doesn't happen often that someone outright says that it's not possible to have a reasonable discussion with them.

I'm having a reasonable discussion.

We can both deploy brilliant logic expressions, but the results will depend based on the basic premises.

The premise that NSW is a home console just because you can also play at home doesn't work for me. NSW is an entirely different beast than a current gen standard home console. It's totally different in technology, specs, screen, portability, etc.

Call it hybrid. But a home console like PS4/X1. It's not. It's more a tablet like iPad than a home console like PS4/X1.

You aren't being reasonable when you ask people to prove that God does not exist. You made the claim, so the onus of proof is on you.

In the instance of continual decline of Nintendo home console sales, your argument is that your conclusion is correct if everything that contradicts the conclusion is ignored. That's not how a reasonable argument works.

Regarding Nintendo not having left the home console market, the premise is not that Switch is a home console. The premise is that Switch is a hybrid and does not make any concessions to home console functionality in comparison to preceding home consoles, therefore Nintendo has maintained their presence in the home console market; plus the sales back that up. Once again, it is unreasonable of you to change the argument because your original claim was that Nintendo left the home console market.

If you now add a fourth claim to your list (namely that you are reasonable), then you should prove that in your next response.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV (360+PS3) would outsell SSBB. I was wrong.

A Biased Review Reloaded / Open Your Eyes / Switch Gamers Club

VideoGameAccountant said:
0D0 said:

You missed when I said that I committed a mistake in my statement regarding 12 months. Incorrect exaggeration.

0D0 said:

"Wii was an exception. NES and SNES barely had competition.

My mistake was saying 12 months. Wii U had Smash, MK, Mario 2D, Mario 3D, DKC, Zelda. This is "almost every big franchise"."

Regarding exceptions. I don't make general rule statements considering exceptions. If you do, you and me can't have a proper discussion. Every time I discuss Nintendo, I always remove Wii or I add it as a bubble and exception, not as a rule to Nintendo's home console business performance. Nintendo has never had a home console with that performance after Sony entered the market. Actually, Nintendo home console business has been shrinking since Nintendo's first home console. That's the Nintendo home console sales rule (except Wii). If I were a Nintendo sales analyst, I'd always put Wii on parenthesis.

You may disagree with that, but there's no way round it with me. The same with NSW that I'll never consider part of the home console business. An army of people can tell me I'm wrong based on a thousand reasons, which is fair but I don't care.

The premisses that I don't discuss and I don't negotiate:

- Nintendo home console business has been decreasing since ever (except Wii) from 60m NES to 13m Wii U.

- Nintendo left the home console business after Wii U.

- God exists.

"Nintendo's homeconsoles have declined as long as I exclude the Wii."

I have a feeling you are starting from the conclusion and working backwards. You want to say Nintendo is in decline and the Wii and Switch throw a wrench in that. Thus, you redefine them so your thesis can be right. If your thesis requires you to remove information or ignore it, then your flat out wrong. You might want to go back to the drawing board. 

Let's check:

NES 60m

SNES 50m

N64 30m

GC 20m

Wii U 13m

How the statement, as you put it "Nintendo's homeconsoles have declined as long as I exclude the Wii." is incorrect?

Wii is the only console that breaks the rule. Isn't?

When you have a rule and one single thing that breaks the rule you have an exception to the rule. Isn't it? That's not how you define an exception?

Which rule?

The rule that NES sold 60m and every other Nintendo home console sold less than that. Isn't? Is that false?

So, Nintendo's home consoles have been shrinking since the first one. Wii is an exception that I must point out. Is that false? How?

NSW is at least a hybrid console (if not a handheld), not a truly stationary home console like the past consoles and PS and X. Besides, it's not a past console, it's a current selling console. So I can leave it that off my statement now if I want.

If you say NSW is a home console like Wii U and NES. Ok, now you have Nintendo breaking the rule again. Which I disagree. Why I disagree? Because I don't put NSW on the home console category. NSW is much smarter than that.

RolStoppable said:
0D0 said:

I'm having a reasonable discussion.

We can both deploy brilliant logic expressions, but the results will depend based on the basic premises.

The premise that NSW is a home console just because you can also play at home doesn't work for me. NSW is an entirely different beast than a current gen standard home console. It's totally different in technology, specs, screen, portability, etc.

Call it hybrid. But a home console like PS4/X1. It's not. It's more a tablet like iPad than a home console like PS4/X1.

You aren't being reasonable when you ask people to prove that God does not exist. You made the claim, so the onus of proof is on you.

In the instance of continual decline of Nintendo home console sales, your argument is that your conclusion is correct if everything that contradicts the conclusion is ignored. That's not how a reasonable argument works.

Regarding Nintendo not having left the home console market, the premise is not that Switch is a home console. The premise is that Switch is a hybrid and does not make any concessions to home console functionality in comparison to preceding home consoles, therefore Nintendo has maintained their presence in the home console market; plus the sales back that up. Once again, it is unreasonable of you to change the argument because your original claim was that Nintendo left the home console market.

If you now add a fourth claim to your list (namely that you are reasonable), then you should prove that in your next response.

No no, I was told that I was being unreasonable before I asked to prove that God doesn't exist. So that cannot go into the evidence that I'm being unreasonable. :)

I've got some statements that I don't discuss for the simple fact that they're not worthy being discussed, as I said before:

- Nintendo home console business has been decreasing since ever (except Wii) from 60m NES to 13m Wii U.

- Nintendo left the home console business after Wii U.

- God exists.

The first one for me is very clear, as I replied above.

The second one is due to the fact that since NSW has come out, I took the position that it's not a home console like all the home consoles that have been sold since the first home console. It's at least a different beast, a hybrid. Of course it can be discussed. You can absolutely try to prove me wrong while I try to prove you wrong. But I guess we've all have discussed it before. If you and the other posters here want to open a thread to discuss if NSW is a home console or not, well, do it and let me know.

If it's sidestepping. Fine. If you think I'm coward, fine. I'm didn't come here to this thread to win anything. That's all.

The third statement is just to show exactly what kind of material the other two statements are. We can also discuss the existence of God. Is it worthy it? Will you change my mind? Will I change yours? We don't have enough time for that.



My Total Sales prediction for PS4 by the end of 2021: 110m+

When PS4 will hit 100m consoles sold: Before Christmas 2019

There were three ravens sat on a tree / They were as blacke as they might be / The one of them said to his mate, Where shall we our breakfast take?


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curl-6 said:
0D0 said:

You missed when I said that I committed a mistake in my statement regarding 12 months. Incorrect exaggeration.

0D0 said:

"Wii was an exception. NES and SNES barely had competition.

My mistake was saying 12 months. Wii U had Smash, MK, Mario 2D, Mario 3D, DKC, Zelda. This is "almost every big franchise"."

What is your point though?

Wii U had some big franchises release on it. So what? 

What does that have to do with Switch outselling the PS4 in Japan?

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9018120

My point was to agree with linkink when he said "switch is getting old ports of wiiu games, and it's doing wonders on switch"



My Total Sales prediction for PS4 by the end of 2021: 110m+

When PS4 will hit 100m consoles sold: Before Christmas 2019

There were three ravens sat on a tree / They were as blacke as they might be / The one of them said to his mate, Where shall we our breakfast take?


0D0 said:
VideoGameAccountant said:

"Nintendo's homeconsoles have declined as long as I exclude the Wii."

I have a feeling you are starting from the conclusion and working backwards. You want to say Nintendo is in decline and the Wii and Switch throw a wrench in that. Thus, you redefine them so your thesis can be right. If your thesis requires you to remove information or ignore it, then your flat out wrong. You might want to go back to the drawing board. 

Let's check:

NES 60m

SNES 50m

N64 30m

GC 20m

Wii U 13m

How the statement, as you put it "Nintendo's homeconsoles have declined as long as I exclude the Wii." is incorrect?

Wii is the only console that breaks the rule. Isn't?

When you have a rule and one single thing that breaks the rule you have an exception to the rule. Isn't it? That's not how you define an exception?

Which rule?

The rule that NES sold 60m and every other Nintendo home console sold less than that. Isn't? Is that false?

So, Nintendo's home consoles have been shrinking since the first one. Wii is an exception that I must point out. Is that false? How?

NSW is at least a hybrid console (if not a handheld), not a truly stationary home console like the past consoles and PS and X. Besides, it's not a past console, it's a current selling console. So I can leave it that off my statement now if I want.

If you say NSW is a home console like Wii U and NES. Ok, now you have Nintendo breaking the rule again. Which I disagree. Why I disagree? Because I don't put NSW on the home console category. NSW is much smarter than that.

RolStoppable said:

You aren't being reasonable when you ask people to prove that God does not exist. You made the claim, so the onus of proof is on you.

In the instance of continual decline of Nintendo home console sales, your argument is that your conclusion is correct if everything that contradicts the conclusion is ignored. That's not how a reasonable argument works.

Regarding Nintendo not having left the home console market, the premise is not that Switch is a home console. The premise is that Switch is a hybrid and does not make any concessions to home console functionality in comparison to preceding home consoles, therefore Nintendo has maintained their presence in the home console market; plus the sales back that up. Once again, it is unreasonable of you to change the argument because your original claim was that Nintendo left the home console market.

If you now add a fourth claim to your list (namely that you are reasonable), then you should prove that in your next response.

No no, I was told that I was being unreasonable before I asked to prove that God doesn't exist. So that cannot go into the evidence that I'm being unreasonable. :)

I've got some statements that I don't discuss for the simple fact that they're not worthy being discussed, as I said before:

- Nintendo home console business has been decreasing since ever (except Wii) from 60m NES to 13m Wii U.

- Nintendo left the home console business after Wii U.

- God exists.

The first one for me is very clear, as I replied above.

The second one is due to the fact that since NSW has come out, I took the position that it's not a home console like all the home consoles that have been sold since the first home console. It's at least a different beast, a hybrid. Of course it can be discussed. You can absolutely try to prove me wrong while I try to prove you wrong. But I guess we've all have discussed it before. If you and the other posters here want to open a thread to discuss if NSW is a home console or not, well, do it and let me know.

If it's sidestepping. Fine. If you think I'm coward, fine. I'm didn't come here to this thread to win anything. That's all.

The third statement is just to show exactly what kind of material the other two statements are. We can also discuss the existence of God. Is it worthy it? Will you change my mind? Will I change yours? We don't have enough time for that.

I'll put it simply for you, your argument is hinging on ignoring the Wii and saying the NSW is not a console the problem is the NSW is still a device competing in the home console market whether you choose to see it as a console or not. This means that the home console market decline you're arguing has not only been broken by the Wii but by the NSW as well and also debunks your claim that they left the market as they're still very much in it with a new type of device so you trying to remove these two from the equation is seen nothing more as you moving goal posts at this point as your only response to these two contradicting your view is you choose to ignore them well that doesn't strengthen your side of things it in fact weakens it especially as the replies to you are elaborating their views. Your argument is like someone saying an smart phone is not a dedicated camera device so doesn't count in that market despite the fact that many people buy them for that exact feature/function as well putting them very well in that market.



0D0 said:
curl-6 said:

What is your point though?

Wii U had some big franchises release on it. So what? 

What does that have to do with Switch outselling the PS4 in Japan?

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9018120

My point was to agree with linkink when he said "switch is getting old ports of wiiu games, and it's doing wonders on switch"

The Switch isn't selling due to old Wii U ports though. Most of its big games are exclusives.

BOTW can be ruled out too as that's not an old port but a simultaneous cross-gen release, and of course it's going to be more of a system seller as a launch title than coming out on a dead system the day it's replaced, that's just common sense.

So the notion that "Switch's library isn't what's selling it cos those games failed to sell the Wii U" is completely fallacious.

The Switch already has a superior library in two years than the Wii U managed in four.

Last edited by curl-6 - on 06 June 2019

curl-6 said:
0D0 said:

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9018120

My point was to agree with linkink when he said "switch is getting old ports of wiiu games, and it's doing wonders on switch"

The Switch isn't selling due to old Wii U ports though. Most of its big games are exclusives.

BOTW can be ruled out too as that's not an old port but a simultaneous cross-gen release, and of course it's going to be more of a system seller as a launch title than coming out on a dead system the day it's replaced, that's just common sense.

So the notion that "Switch's library isn't what's selling it cos those games failed to sell the Wii U" is completely fallacious.

The Switch already has a superior library in two years than the Wii U managed in four.

I may agree or disagree with that notion but in my case I just agreed that Wii U games did wonders to Switch regardless. One of the reasons that Switch got a superior library in two years was because Wii U games were on this library. To make MK available for the Switch audience Nintendo had just to port a title. MK alone is huge.

Another factor is that many skipped Wii U. So when all those Wii U games came out for Switch in a short span of time while those buyers haven't bought hardware from Nintendo since Wii, those many were even more willing to pick up a Switch. The failure of Wii U sort of helped Switch. Many were hungry for a new Nintendo device since Wii.



My Total Sales prediction for PS4 by the end of 2021: 110m+

When PS4 will hit 100m consoles sold: Before Christmas 2019

There were three ravens sat on a tree / They were as blacke as they might be / The one of them said to his mate, Where shall we our breakfast take?


0D0 said:

I may agree or disagree with that notion but in my case I just agreed that Wii U games did wonders to Switch regardless. One of the reasons that Switch got a superior library in two years was because Wii U games were on this library. To make MK available for the Switch audience Nintendo had just to port a title. MK alone is huge.

Another factor is that many skipped Wii U. So when all those Wii U games came out for Switch in a short span of time while those buyers haven't bought hardware from Nintendo since Wii, those many were even more willing to pick up a Switch. The failure of Wii U sort of helped Switch. Many were hungry for a new Nintendo device since Wii.

The part in bold was a thought that had occurred to me as well. During the Wii U era, Nintendo didn't seem to have a large media presence, but after the Switch release, Mario seemed to be everywhere. The shopping carts at my local Target store became Mario themed and the entrance and exits to the store had the checkered flag look.

Obviously these are just marketing dollars spent by Nintendo, but they seemed to be absent for several years of the Wii U's lifespan. Nintendo made a comeback and somehow managed to change their brand from "kiddy" to "cool".