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In defence of piracy

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Baalzamon said:
So what is the cutoff point for this entitlement? If a game took 10 years and $4 Billion to make and costs $3,000 to buy, is that one still ok to pirate?

What do you mean by "still ok"? You basically provided an example where anything other than piracy would be nonsensical.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV (360+PS3) would outsell SSBB. I was wrong.

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Or how about bookkeeping software. A small company (think 2-3 employees where if the company fails these people will be bankrupt) just isn't going to be able to make it despite all of their hard work, they should probably just be able to pirate all of their software to upgrade their computer system. Perhaps some nice new $10,000 accounting software, some tax software. After all, they worked their ASS off to even get to this point, and there is absolutely no reason why the wealthy should get this software and they can't.



Money can't buy happiness. Just video games, which make me happy.

RolStoppable said:
Baalzamon said:
So what is the cutoff point for this entitlement? If a game took 10 years and $4 Billion to make and costs $3,000 to buy, is that one still ok to pirate?

What do you mean by "still ok"? You basically provided an example where anything other than piracy would be nonsensical.

The logic behind whether a game should cost $3,000 and why anybody would pay for that is entirely different than being able to justify that stealing it is perfectly ok.



Money can't buy happiness. Just video games, which make me happy.

Baalzamon said:
RolStoppable said:

What do you mean by "still ok"? You basically provided an example where anything other than piracy would be nonsensical.

The logic behind whether a game should cost $3,000 and why anybody would pay for that is entirely different than being able to justify that stealing it is perfectly ok.

But stealing is okay. Have you ever heard of Robin Hood? People love his stories so much that they get retold over and over again.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV (360+PS3) would outsell SSBB. I was wrong.

A Biased Review Reloaded / Open Your Eyes / Switch Gamers Club

mZuzek said:
Baalzamon said:

What is it that makes you feel you are entitled to that game? Why do you feel such an urge to assure others that this is ok? It is theft, plain and simple. I don't quite frankly care how much video games cost in any one region, if they aren't within your budget...then you shouldn't be playing video games.

Yeah, but that's the thing... if someone can't afford a game, they won't buy it. At that point, what difference does it make whether they play it ilegally or don't? The only difference it makes is to the enjoyment of that particular person, and nothing else. You can say "oh but that person would've otherwise bought the game when they had the money", and well, that's not always true. There's loads of people who wouldn't buy the game anyway... it's not about feeling "entitled" to play it, it's just about having a good time. I'm not saying piracy is okay, of course it's not. There's a lot wrong with it. But there are good things that can come from it, too.

Of course, in your extreme example, no good would come out of it, but reality isn't extreme.

But you re saying its okay. At the very least you re saying the bad doesnt outweight the good. No real harm done. And you opened a thread titled "in defence of piracy".

The common fallacies of the "pro piracy" faction.

Since no physical goods are stolen, no material damage, no loss, therefore videogames are nothing of value. However, how easy is it to download from a comfy chair. Not even have to physically leave home. Try to casually walk into a car dealer ship, short circuit five cars to your liking and take them home. Or a convinience store, grab 20 packs of cigarettes (and a Playboy while you re at it) walk up to the cashier and tell him/her nonchalantly you dont like a certain physical products producing company and instead of buying you steal their stuff from now on.

Who does that? Not the average, usually lawabiding citizen. You dont need special skills to pirate software, no criminal intent, anybody can do it, do it plenty, anywhere, anytime.

Yes, you can multiply software with little to no effort. But you cant multiply customers, the people who buy products, that number is always finite, digital or not. 

The real, long term damage is being done by depreciating videogames. "Nothing of real value". And it shows. To bring down prices rapidly was Valves way to combat piracy. Single handedly it was responsible for the rise of f2p and helped advancing/normalizing MTA. Many gamers are hellbent to squeeze the most "bang out of every buck" and think the epitome of todays competition is to cram as much content as possible into service. It was certainly different back in the days.



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These days I earn enough to usually not pirating, although I judge no one who does. But sometimes I do it even today.

'This shop doesn't accept this european credit card.' → Well, it is not available in europe in any other way, so it does mean I get it for free. Thanks for your generosity.

'We have done an exclusive deal to sell this ebook only through XY-platform you need Z-hardware for.' → I don't have Z-hardware and I will not get it for this book... let's see... *google*... yes, epub right here and for free too. Well then.

Basically if the companies build artificial walls to force me to watch/read/play/listen these things in a certain way, with certain hardware, as a certain nationality or something... I pirate it.

And for the effects. Studies says piracy reduces revenue for chart-topping blockbuster titles, but actually increases revenue for smaller more obscure stuff. Basically people would've never heard about that if not for piracy, and if they like it they buy it. Also you seldomly hurt the actual artist, mostly their income is already set through contract. The big companies selling the art are the one that lose revenue. I would encourage you though if you pirate to look if you have a way to benefit the artist directly, excluding the companies in between.



3DS-FC: 4511-1768-7903 (Mii-Name: Mnementh), Nintendo-Network-ID: Mnementh, Switch: SW-7706-3819-9381 (Mnementh)

my greatest games: 2017, 2018

Predictions: Switch / Switch vs. XB1 in the US / Three Houses first quarter

If only I knew that copying files from one folder to another made someone annoyed at their job/games at the other side of the world....

My ssd's lifespan might get shortened tonight but I feel it will be worth it in the long run.



Fancy hearing me on an amateur podcast with friends gushing over one of my favourite games? https://youtu.be/1I7JfMMxhf8

Mnementh said:
These days I earn enough to usually not pirating, although I judge no one who does. But sometimes I do it even today.

'This shop doesn't accept this european credit card.' → Well, it is not available in europe in any other way, so it does mean I get it for free. Thanks for your generosity.

'We have done an exclusive deal to sell this ebook only through XY-platform you need Z-hardware for.' → I don't have Z-hardware and I will not get it for this book... let's see... *google*... yes, epub right here and for free too. Well then.

Basically if the companies build artificial walls to force me to watch/read/play/listen these things in a certain way, with certain hardware, as a certain nationality or something... I pirate it.

And for the effects. Studies says piracy reduces revenue for chart-topping blockbuster titles, but actually increases revenue for smaller more obscure stuff. Basically people would've never heard about that if not for piracy, and if they like it they buy it. Also you seldomly hurt the actual artist, mostly their income is already set through contract. The big companies selling the art are the one that lose revenue. I would encourage you though if you pirate to look if you have a way to benefit the artist directly, excluding the companies in between.

World War II and the horrible acts of murdering millions of people led to many technological improvements the world likely wouldn't have seen as quickly if it didn't occur. Does that mean the killing that led to World War II was ok?

That is what your argument is. If it wasn't for this theft, some people would actually be worse off.

It still doesn't change that it is theft.



Money can't buy happiness. Just video games, which make me happy.

Baalzamon said:
Mnementh said:
These days I earn enough to usually not pirating, although I judge no one who does. But sometimes I do it even today.

'This shop doesn't accept this european credit card.' → Well, it is not available in europe in any other way, so it does mean I get it for free. Thanks for your generosity.

'We have done an exclusive deal to sell this ebook only through XY-platform you need Z-hardware for.' → I don't have Z-hardware and I will not get it for this book... let's see... *google*... yes, epub right here and for free too. Well then.

Basically if the companies build artificial walls to force me to watch/read/play/listen these things in a certain way, with certain hardware, as a certain nationality or something... I pirate it.

And for the effects. Studies says piracy reduces revenue for chart-topping blockbuster titles, but actually increases revenue for smaller more obscure stuff. Basically people would've never heard about that if not for piracy, and if they like it they buy it. Also you seldomly hurt the actual artist, mostly their income is already set through contract. The big companies selling the art are the one that lose revenue. I would encourage you though if you pirate to look if you have a way to benefit the artist directly, excluding the companies in between.

World War II and the horrible acts of murdering millions of people led to many technological improvements the world likely wouldn't have seen as quickly if it didn't occur. Does that mean the killing that led to World War II was ok?

That is what your argument is. If it wasn't for this theft, some people would actually be worse off.

It still doesn't change that it is theft.

Godwin's law in full effect.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV (360+PS3) would outsell SSBB. I was wrong.

A Biased Review Reloaded / Open Your Eyes / Switch Gamers Club

Zoombael said:
mZuzek said:

Yeah, but that's the thing... if someone can't afford a game, they won't buy it. At that point, what difference does it make whether they play it ilegally or don't? The only difference it makes is to the enjoyment of that particular person, and nothing else. You can say "oh but that person would've otherwise bought the game when they had the money", and well, that's not always true. There's loads of people who wouldn't buy the game anyway... it's not about feeling "entitled" to play it, it's just about having a good time. I'm not saying piracy is okay, of course it's not. There's a lot wrong with it. But there are good things that can come from it, too.

Of course, in your extreme example, no good would come out of it, but reality isn't extreme.

But you are saying its okay. At the very least you're saying the bad doesnt outweight the good. No real harm done. And you opened a thread titled "in defence of piracy".

The common fallacies of the "pro piracy" faction.

Since no physical goods are stolen, no material damage, no loss, therefore videogames are nothing of value. However, how easy is it to download from a comfy chair. Not even have to physically leave home. Try to casually walk into a car dealer ship, short circuit five cars to your liking and take them home. Or a convinience store, grab 20 packs of cigarettes (and a Playboy while you re at it) walk up to the cashier and tell him/her nonchalantly you dont like a certain physical products producing company and instead of buying you steal their stuff from now on.

Who does that? Not the average, usually lawabiding citizen. You dont need special skills to pirate software, no criminal intent, anybody can do it, do it plenty, anywhere, anytime.

Yes, you can multiply software with little to no effort. But you cant multiply customers, the people who buy products, that number is always finite, digital or not. 

The real, long term damage is being done by depreciating videogames. "Nothing of real value". And it shows. To bring down prices rapidly was Valves way to combat piracy. Single handedly it was responsible for the rise of f2p and helped advancing/normalizing MTA. Many gamers are hellbent to squeeze the most "bang out of every buck" and think the epitome of todays competition is to cram as much content as possible into service. It was certainly different back in the days.

I do think the bad doesn't outweigh the good, that much is true, yeah. It's why this thread is a thing. I think that piracy can have a positive, long-term impact on the industry, and it's because I've seen it with my own eyes and done it with my own hands. If anything I can't see any long-term damage being done by it - the damage of piracy is visibly immediate and short-term. As I've said in the OP, playing certain games for free was mostly what led me to buying a number of consoles and games I would've maybe never bought otherwise, including those games I had originally pirated, so this piracy led to me spending thousands of dollars I wouldn't have given to the industry otherwise. I'm not the only example of this, far from it, but obviously it's the only one I have detailed knowledge of.

Do most pirates do that? I don't know, probably not. And in that case, those people are doing more harm than good, yeah... but they're still doing some good, by spreading awareness and word of mouth. As I said in the OP, while every artist dreams of making a living from their art, the one thing they want most is just for people to be enjoying their product. It means so much... certainly more than money. If there were thousands of people out there who loved my music, even if they only listened to it for free and my life still was as it is now, I'd be feeling a lot better about myself than I do now.