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Forums - General Discussion - In defence of piracy

TranceformerFX on 15 May 2019
mZuzek said:
Baalzamon said:

What is it that makes you feel you are entitled to that game? Why do you feel such an urge to assure others that this is ok? It is theft, plain and simple. I don't quite frankly care how much video games cost in any one region, if they aren't within your budget...then you shouldn't be playing video games.

Yeah, but that's the thing... if someone can't afford a game, they won't buy it. At that point, what difference does it make whether they play it ilegally or don't? The only difference it makes is to the enjoyment of that particular person, and nothing else. You can say "oh but that person would've otherwise bought the game when they had the money", and well, that's not always true. There's loads of people who wouldn't buy the game anyway... it's not about feeling "entitled" to play it, it's just about having a good time. I'm not saying piracy is okay, of course it's not. There's a lot wrong with it. But there are good things that can come from it, too.

Of course, in your extreme example, no good would come out of it, but reality isn't extreme.

You're piracy enabling attitude legit makes me laugh in embarrassment. I literally just chuckled out loud...

Once again...

Playing video games is a privilege, not a right. Of course it makes a difference BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T F***ING BUY IT! Holy shit dude... I'm gonna go out on a limb here and safely guess that you pirated alot of shit in your time.



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Baalzamon on 15 May 2019
mZuzek said:
Baalzamon said:

What is it that makes you feel you are entitled to that game? Why do you feel such an urge to assure others that this is ok? It is theft, plain and simple. I don't quite frankly care how much video games cost in any one region, if they aren't within your budget...then you shouldn't be playing video games.

Yeah, but that's the thing... if someone can't afford a game, they won't buy it. At that point, what difference does it make whether they play it ilegally or don't? The only difference it makes is to the enjoyment of that particular person, and nothing else. You can say "oh but that person would've otherwise bought the game when they had the money", and well, that's not always true. There's loads of people who wouldn't buy the game anyway... it's not about feeling "entitled" to play it, it's just about having a good time. I'm not saying piracy is okay, of course it's not. There's a lot wrong with it. But there are good things that can come from it, too.

Of course, in your extreme example, no good would come out of it, but reality isn't extreme.

You're totally right.

If one person makes $40,000 a year and can afford 5 games, and another person makes $30,000 a year and cannot afford any games, the ONLY solution to this is the $30,000 person should be able to illegally download these games and still play them. After all, what difference does it make.

It is their right in life to live the exact same lifestyle (including which video games are available to them) as the person who makes more money than them.

While society has deemed certain things a right for all people to enjoy (we certainly strive to assist the poor so they can afford food, housing, healthcare, but are by no means perfect in this venture). But I believe the mass majority of people would say we have no business including video games in these buckets.

The difference it makes it is nullifies a giant chunk of how the economy runs, which is that people who make more money can buy more things (obviously there are lots of variables to this). It also is completely and totally unfair to people like myself who actually save up money for every single game that I purchase. Meanwhile, you just go and download the game, and never had to think twice about saving for it.

I completely and totally understand being jealous of those who make more and have more than you'll ever have. I've seen those people around me my entire life, and occasionally had thoughts that it just doesn't seem fair.

What I won't deal with though, is somebody trying to tell me that their theft doesn't make a difference. It absolutely steals from the creator of the game who isn't being compensated in any way for that copy of the game. It absolutely is unfair to the people who choose not to break the law and have to save up for the games that they buy.

Go on pirating your games, but for crying out loud, stop saying it has no impact on anybody else.



Money can't buy happiness. Just video games, which make me happy.

Ganoncrotch on 15 May 2019
Baalzamon said:
mZuzek said:

Yeah, but that's the thing... if someone can't afford a game, they won't buy it. At that point, what difference does it make whether they play it ilegally or don't? The only difference it makes is to the enjoyment of that particular person, and nothing else. You can say "oh but that person would've otherwise bought the game when they had the money", and well, that's not always true. There's loads of people who wouldn't buy the game anyway... it's not about feeling "entitled" to play it, it's just about having a good time. I'm not saying piracy is okay, of course it's not. There's a lot wrong with it. But there are good things that can come from it, too.

Of course, in your extreme example, no good would come out of it, but reality isn't extreme.

You're totally right.

If one person makes $40,000 a year and can afford 5 games, and another person makes $30,000 a year and cannot afford any games, the ONLY solution to this is the $30,000 person should be able to illegally download these games and still play them. After all, what difference does it make.

It is their right in life to live the exact same lifestyle (including which video games are available to them) as the person who makes more money than them.

While society has deemed certain things a right for all people to enjoy (we certainly strive to assist the poor so they can afford food, housing, healthcare, but are by no means perfect in this venture). But I believe the mass majority of people would say we have no business including video games in these buckets.

The difference it makes it is nullifies a giant chunk of how the economy runs, which is that people who make more money can buy more things (obviously there are lots of variables to this). It also is completely and totally unfair to people like myself who actually save up money for every single game that I purchase. Meanwhile, you just go and download the game, and never had to think twice about saving for it.

I completely and totally understand being jealous of those who make more and have more than you'll ever have. I've seen those people around me my entire life, and occasionally had thoughts that it just doesn't seem fair.

What I won't deal with though, is somebody trying to tell me that their theft doesn't make a difference. It absolutely steals from the creator of the game who isn't being compensated in any way for that copy of the game. It absolutely is unfair to the people who choose not to break the law and have to save up for the games that they buy.

Go on pirating your games, but for crying out loud, stop saying it has no impact on anybody else.

If you take a game like say.... GTAV and via illegal means it is torrented to an alien planet of 50 billion Klingons, and they all pass it around and play it.... How does that impact the game creator or you?

Even in your scenario of "person A has the money to pay for the item" "Person B does not" Person B never has money... he has the same amount of money as a planet full of billions of Aliens, there is no magic $60s that are in their pockets that are somehow not going into Activisions pocket when they play it, I'll put it like this man... I've worked with and around a lot of people who are on the line of not having anything, and the choices some people have is either sit back and play a few games in their spare time or spend it on things like drink/drugs and honestly I've directed people towards things like a R4 card for the Nintendo DS as a way that they could spend their spare time doing something that isn't constructive but at least would be less harmful than the alternative, and this isn't people who don't have jobs I'm talking about people who either have familys or dependants who consume all or most of their income so yeah, don't jump on the "well those losers should go get a job rather than playing games" There are a lot of people whos savings go to things like medical issues or yeah... the care of loved ones in their families. I'm never going to tell someone who has spent the day minding a family member and not earning a penny for it that they're not entitled to sit down at the end of the day and play a video game because what they done didn't give a remuneration.

Bit of a tangent there... but aye tell me just how does it impact you playing the game if some poor sap in his room is also playing that game but hasn't paid for it.... but would never have been able to pay for it? Does it make you feel worse as you play the game to think that someone else might be enjoying the same title but you're worrying they didn't pay the entry fee... what about when the game goes on sale, do you lose a little sleep or fun of the game if you paid 60 but I pick it up a month later for 20 does that get to you that I don't fully deserve to play it?



Why not check me out on youtube and help me on the way to 2k subs over at www.youtube.com/stormcloudlive

Azuren on 15 May 2019

Has anyone used the "I wasn't going to buy it anyway" excuse yet?



Watch me stream games and hunt trophies on my Twitch channel!

Check out my Twitch Channel!:

www.twitch.tv/AzurenGames

Baalzamon on 16 May 2019
Ganoncrotch said:
Baalzamon said:

You're totally right.

If one person makes $40,000 a year and can afford 5 games, and another person makes $30,000 a year and cannot afford any games, the ONLY solution to this is the $30,000 person should be able to illegally download these games and still play them. After all, what difference does it make.

It is their right in life to live the exact same lifestyle (including which video games are available to them) as the person who makes more money than them.

While society has deemed certain things a right for all people to enjoy (we certainly strive to assist the poor so they can afford food, housing, healthcare, but are by no means perfect in this venture). But I believe the mass majority of people would say we have no business including video games in these buckets.

The difference it makes it is nullifies a giant chunk of how the economy runs, which is that people who make more money can buy more things (obviously there are lots of variables to this). It also is completely and totally unfair to people like myself who actually save up money for every single game that I purchase. Meanwhile, you just go and download the game, and never had to think twice about saving for it.

I completely and totally understand being jealous of those who make more and have more than you'll ever have. I've seen those people around me my entire life, and occasionally had thoughts that it just doesn't seem fair.

What I won't deal with though, is somebody trying to tell me that their theft doesn't make a difference. It absolutely steals from the creator of the game who isn't being compensated in any way for that copy of the game. It absolutely is unfair to the people who choose not to break the law and have to save up for the games that they buy.

Go on pirating your games, but for crying out loud, stop saying it has no impact on anybody else.

If you take a game like say.... GTAV and via illegal means it is torrented to an alien planet of 50 billion Klingons, and they all pass it around and play it.... How does that impact the game creator or you?

Even in your scenario of "person A has the money to pay for the item" "Person B does not" Person B never has money... he has the same amount of money as a planet full of billions of Aliens, there is no magic $60s that are in their pockets that are somehow not going into Activisions pocket when they play it, I'll put it like this man... I've worked with and around a lot of people who are on the line of not having anything, and the choices some people have is either sit back and play a few games in their spare time or spend it on things like drink/drugs and honestly I've directed people towards things like a R4 card for the Nintendo DS as a way that they could spend their spare time doing something that isn't constructive but at least would be less harmful than the alternative, and this isn't people who don't have jobs I'm talking about people who either have familys or dependants who consume all or most of their income so yeah, don't jump on the "well those losers should go get a job rather than playing games" There are a lot of people whos savings go to things like medical issues or yeah... the care of loved ones in their families. I'm never going to tell someone who has spent the day minding a family member and not earning a penny for it that they're not entitled to sit down at the end of the day and play a video game because what they done didn't give a remuneration.

Bit of a tangent there... but aye tell me just how does it impact you playing the game if some poor sap in his room is also playing that game but hasn't paid for it.... but would never have been able to pay for it? Does it make you feel worse as you play the game to think that someone else might be enjoying the same title but you're worrying they didn't pay the entry fee... what about when the game goes on sale, do you lose a little sleep or fun of the game if you paid 60 but I pick it up a month later for 20 does that get to you that I don't fully deserve to play it?

You really don't get it. It impacts me because I work my ass off to be able to make $5000 more a year than the next person specifically so I can afford the extra thing. So at what point is that extra work/income benefitting me AT ALL if the person making less is still getting the exact same things because they just take them illegally.

It makes my extra work completely worthless, and quite frankly encourages me to either also steal the game (in which case we are once again discussing the impact to the publisher) or to just not work as hard.

-----

And another tangent, don't even TRY to argue that for some the difference is either illegally downloading a game (for free) or doing drugs (cost money). There are MANY cheap games that can be had for less than consistently doing drugs (hell, the main game I play is free to play, and you can just buy skins/etc).

------

But you have finally made clear why my arguments aren't sticking and never will. You truly think society is fully entitled to video games, and simply working 10 hours a day and taking care of their family means they absolutely should be able to play them no matter what.



Money can't buy happiness. Just video games, which make me happy.

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Baalzamon on 16 May 2019

So what is the cutoff point for this entitlement? If a game took 10 years and $4 Billion to make and costs $3,000 to buy, is that one still ok to pirate?



Money can't buy happiness. Just video games, which make me happy.

Baalzamon on 16 May 2019

What about Microsoft Office? I presume you should be able to steal that too, even though there are perfectly good office products for free.

Should I keep going?



Money can't buy happiness. Just video games, which make me happy.

Baalzamon on 16 May 2019

Or how about bookkeeping software. A small company (think 2-3 employees where if the company fails these people will be bankrupt) just isn't going to be able to make it despite all of their hard work, they should probably just be able to pirate all of their software to upgrade their computer system. Perhaps some nice new $10,000 accounting software, some tax software. After all, they worked their ASS off to even get to this point, and there is absolutely no reason why the wealthy should get this software and they can't.



Money can't buy happiness. Just video games, which make me happy.

Baalzamon on 16 May 2019
RolStoppable said:
Baalzamon said:
So what is the cutoff point for this entitlement? If a game took 10 years and $4 Billion to make and costs $3,000 to buy, is that one still ok to pirate?

What do you mean by "still ok"? You basically provided an example where anything other than piracy would be nonsensical.

The logic behind whether a game should cost $3,000 and why anybody would pay for that is entirely different than being able to justify that stealing it is perfectly ok.



Money can't buy happiness. Just video games, which make me happy.

Zoombael on 16 May 2019
mZuzek said:
Baalzamon said:

What is it that makes you feel you are entitled to that game? Why do you feel such an urge to assure others that this is ok? It is theft, plain and simple. I don't quite frankly care how much video games cost in any one region, if they aren't within your budget...then you shouldn't be playing video games.

Yeah, but that's the thing... if someone can't afford a game, they won't buy it. At that point, what difference does it make whether they play it ilegally or don't? The only difference it makes is to the enjoyment of that particular person, and nothing else. You can say "oh but that person would've otherwise bought the game when they had the money", and well, that's not always true. There's loads of people who wouldn't buy the game anyway... it's not about feeling "entitled" to play it, it's just about having a good time. I'm not saying piracy is okay, of course it's not. There's a lot wrong with it. But there are good things that can come from it, too.

Of course, in your extreme example, no good would come out of it, but reality isn't extreme.

But you re saying its okay. At the very least you re saying the bad doesnt outweight the good. No real harm done. And you opened a thread titled "in defence of piracy".

The common fallacies of the "pro piracy" faction.

Since no physical goods are stolen, no material damage, no loss, therefore videogames are nothing of value. However, how easy is it to download from a comfy chair. Not even have to physically leave home. Try to casually walk into a car dealer ship, short circuit five cars to your liking and take them home. Or a convinience store, grab 20 packs of cigarettes (and a Playboy while you re at it) walk up to the cashier and tell him/her nonchalantly you dont like a certain physical products producing company and instead of buying you steal their stuff from now on.

Who does that? Not the average, usually lawabiding citizen. You dont need special skills to pirate software, no criminal intent, anybody can do it, do it plenty, anywhere, anytime.

Yes, you can multiply software with little to no effort. But you cant multiply customers, the people who buy products, that number is always finite, digital or not. 

The real, long term damage is being done by depreciating videogames. "Nothing of real value". And it shows. To bring down prices rapidly was Valves way to combat piracy. Single handedly it was responsible for the rise of f2p and helped advancing/normalizing MTA. Many gamers are hellbent to squeeze the most "bang out of every buck" and think the epitome of todays competition is to cram as much content as possible into service. It was certainly different back in the days.



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