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I choose...

N64 56 48.28%
 
Wii 60 51.72%
 
Total:116

I dont get why some people are saying the Wii wins by default because it plays 64 games. If that's the case, why even compare the Wii to 64 when Wii U does the same thing the Wii does...plus a touch pad?

Edit: in which case by definition makes the Wii U better than the Wii despite selling numbers nowhere near its predecessor.

Last edited by SuperRetroTurbo - on 07 May 2019

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HoangNhatAnh said:

So GBA was a fad, too? 

You don't care at all about what i said don't you?? . Will you give a shit if i answer you that question at all?. 

Why are we here??, just to suffer?



Wii. Most of the stuff on the N64 is already very archaic.



My bet with The_Liquid_Laser: I think the Switch won't surpass the PS2 as the best selling system of all time. If it does, I'll play a game of a list that The_Liquid_Laser will provide, I will have to play it for 50 hours or complete it, whatever comes first. 

There are a lot of myths about the Wii, that it just fizzled out and had a short lifespan when it was the first home console from Nintendo to go over 5 years since the SNES and that people only played Wii Sports and it otherwise gathered dust when it had a higher attach ratio than any Nintendo system - home console and handheld - save for the Gamecube which had a slightly higher attach rate.



colafitte said:
GoOnKid said:

Oh no, you too? We already have colafitte telling us that motion controls are a fad because he wants it to be that way while ignoring every counter argument and evidence against this ridiculously false claim.

I already explained multiple times i referred to Nunchuk controls and not motion controls as a whole. I mantain what i said: "Nunchuk controls and its mainstream success were a fad". Wii sports kinda games sold a lot, and Nintendo has never come back to those games...It must be for a reason i think. Kinect with Microsoft was the same thing, it completely disappeared from Microsoft strategy. It went from being the next big thing for Xbox to completly forgotten. Would you agree with me that Kinect was a fad or not in this case?.

Nunchuck controls were a deliberate design choice so that developers had more buttons and input options if they needed them. It was one of the Wii's main design features. If you want to call that a fad so be it, but then we could also call many things a fad, like the triple handle of the N64 pad, the Transfer Pak, the UMD discs of the PSP, the PC joysticks for flight simulator games, you name it. You can believe whatever you want; you call it a fad, I call it a feature. The Kinect is also a feature, and an optional one, mind you, just like PS Eyetoy. Surely you would call that a fad too, right? Also the Buzz controllers. Also the PS Vita's backside touchscreen. Also Playstation Home. Also the PS4's touch button on the controller. Also the PS4's LED bar. Anything that deviates from the classic gamepad layout. Anything can be a fad if you want it to be one, but at the same time these are all attempts of differentiation among the competition.

You wanted to say that nowadays we don't use nunchucks anymore and you tell us all that to portray the N64 as superior, but the N64 also had design choices that are not used anymore, so I don't see your point.



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Wii, easily. On top of having Virtual Console and GameCube backwards compatibility, which gave it access to most of Nintendo’s best games, it also had loads of great first party Nintendo releases and lots of underrated third party games.

Yeah, it’s success also led to it having a legendary amount of shovelware, but that also gave it loads of hidden gems. And on top of all of that, the Wii’s best games have simply aged better, while a lot of N64 games are typical examples of early 3D gaming, held back by early 3D game design, the hardware, and the controller. Not even close really. The only thing the N64 really has over the Wii are legendary groundbreaking games, but that’s to be expected from a console that pioneered 4-player multiplayer and 3D game design.



GoOnKid said:
colafitte said:

I already explained multiple times i referred to Nunchuk controls and not motion controls as a whole. I mantain what i said: "Nunchuk controls and its mainstream success were a fad". Wii sports kinda games sold a lot, and Nintendo has never come back to those games...It must be for a reason i think. Kinect with Microsoft was the same thing, it completely disappeared from Microsoft strategy. It went from being the next big thing for Xbox to completly forgotten. Would you agree with me that Kinect was a fad or not in this case?.

Nunchuck controls were a deliberate design choice so that developers had more buttons and input options if they needed them. It was one of the Wii's main design features. If you want to call that a fad so be it, but then we could also call many things a fad, like the triple handle of the N64 pad, the Transfer Pak, the UMD discs of the PSP, the PC joysticks for flight simulator games, you name it. You can believe whatever you want; you call it a fad, I call it a feature. The Kinect is also a feature, and an optional one, mind you, just like PS Eyetoy. Surely you would call that a fad too, right? Also the Buzz controllers. Also the PS Vita's backside touchscreen. Also Playstation Home. Also the PS4's touch button on the controller. Also the PS4's LED bar. Anything that deviates from the classic gamepad layout. Anything can be a fad if you want it to be one, but at the same time these are all attempts of differentiation among the competition.

You wanted to say that nowadays we don't use nunchucks anymore and you tell us all that to portray the N64 as superior, but the N64 also had design choices that are not used anymore, so I don't see your point.

Not everything can be a fad. Things that became useless or never succeeded like UMD, PS vita back touchpad, Ps4 led bar, PS home... Were not a fad because they weren't even a success in the first place. 

I already said PS eye toy and kinect were a fad, like guitar hero games, or singstar games but it seems you didn't notice. 

Neither of those accessories you cited for N64 were the reason people bought that console. If you are going to tell me that Nintendo and the consumers did not treat wiimote controls and its gameplay mechanics as the main new attractive point of the Wii during 2006-2010 then there is no point in keep arguing.

That was the main difference between a GameCube and a Wii. That was not an anecdotal accesory like the eye camera for ps2 or kinect for x360. It was integral in the concept of the console and most of its most important games. Wii lived and died on the success of wiimote controls. 



colafitte said:
GoOnKid said:

Oh no, you too? We already have colafitte telling us that motion controls are a fad because he wants it to be that way while ignoring every counter argument and evidence against this ridiculously false claim.

I already explained multiple times i referred to Nunchuk controls and not motion controls as a whole. I mantain what i said: "Nunchuk controls and its mainstream success were a fad". Wii sports kinda games sold a lot, and Nintendo has never come back to those games...It must be for a reason i think. Kinect with Microsoft was the same thing, it completely disappeared from Microsoft strategy. It went from being the next big thing for Xbox to completly forgotten. Would you agree with me that Kinect was a fad or not in this case?.

Jumpin said:
Motion controls are fairly well integrated into everything from consoles like the Switch, to mobile, and VR.

Additionally, someone up above claimed the Wii didn’t last as long as the SNES. This is false, the two consoles were actually very close, but the Wii enjoyed slightly more long term success. It peaked in sales during its third year (SNES in its second) and tailed out a little longer, with Wii selling 4 million units in its 7th year and SNES only 1 million (or about 2% of SNES’s total sales in year 7 versus about 4% of Wii’s).

NES isn’t a valid comparison of an example of a successful strategy due to it being an unusual situation. Two of the major markets (Japan and US) had a lack of competition for years due to their video game industry collapses, but in countries where it DID have competition it only lasted 2-4 years.

I will explain myself better....(Your numbers about SNES are wrong by the way).

What i meant to say it that the sales of SNES lasted longer comparatevely to their peaks, SNES FY1990-FY1998 , 9 years (and then it sold a few years more but barely nothing important); Wii FY2006-FY2014, 9 years too, so yes technically they lasted the same (or very close) officialy, but...Wii fell off way harder in the second half of their lives compared to SNES.

Peak year of SNES: 3rd FY, FY1992, 13'0M

Peak year of Wii: 3rd FY, FY2008, 26'0M

Years 4-5 for both:

SNES: 11'1M WW FY 1993, 4'4M WW FY 1994 (weird year drop by the way that year..., anyone knows what happened this year?)

Wii: 20'5M WW FY 2009, 15'1M WW FY 2010

Until this point, in effect, Wii was doing way better than SNES in total numbers and declining pace. But after year 5, Wii declined more than SNES in proportion:

Years 6-9 for both:

SNES: 5'8M WW FY 1995, 3'3M WW FY 1996, 1'9M WW FY 1997, 1'5M WW FY 1998. Total during FY 1995-1998 = 12'5M of 49'1M total lifetime = 25% of the sales

Wii: 9'8M WW FY 2011, 4'0M WW FY 2012, 1'22M WW FY 2013, 0'4M WW FY 2014. Total during FY FY2011-2014 = 15'4M of 101'6M total lifetime = 15% of the sales

When i said "Wii didn't last as long as the SNES" i meant Wii dind't mantain the pace as well as the SNES (relatively speaking) in the latter years. If Wii would've shared the same drop projection as SNES, Wii could've sold more than 115M in the end.

N64 by the way started stronger than SNES in NA and Others:

SNES lifetime total NA+Others FY1990-FY1994 = 22'1M

N64 lifetime total NA+Others FY1996-1999 = 25'7M

Japan was the main difference (it seems that losing FF and DQ franchises  to PS during those years was a mortal blow in Japan):

SNES FY1990-FY1994 = 11'8M

N64 FY 1996-FY 1999 = 5'0M

Then Nintendo stopped production to sell GC's. In that regard, i will understand if someone says my argument proves N64 was even more of a fad...., but i guess it was Nintendo's decision to stop N64 because the console wasn't working in Japan and because the general perception was that N64 could not compete to PS and the next to come PS2 so they tried to do something new . 

So yes, i admit Wii didn't disappear as quick as N64 or GC (after more heavy research), but it didn't last strong as long as NES, SNES, DS, 3DS either.... It was something inbetween. It's just that i'm pretty sure most people here (and everywhere else), if you were telling them in 2009 or 2010 that Wii was barely going to sell 100M in the end, no one would've believed that. No such a succesful console has dropped sales so fast ever.

You have to align your SNES numbers by market due to a staggered release. So while it appears flatter over time, if you align them so 1990 is year 1 for Japan, 1991 is year 1 for NA, and 1992 is year 1 for Europe, then things become more clear. Wii is easier to measure due to a near worldwide launch in major markets in late 2006. Anyway, you’re not wrong when looking at worldwide numbers as a single market, but that’s not how the SNES rolled out.

So,

Yr 1 - 1.4, 2, 2 = 5.4

Yr 2 - 2.4, 4.9, 1.5 = 8.8

Yr 3 - 3.6, 4.4, 1 = 8.1

Yr 4 - 4.4, 3.7, 0.25 = 8.1

Yr 5 - 2.7, 2.6, 0.1 = 5.4

Yr 6 - 1.8, 1.1, 0.05 = 2.95

Yr 7 - 0.6, .5, 0 = 1.1

Granted, these numbers leave out some smaller markets, I know SNES released in 93 and 94 in some of these. And it is noteworthy that SNES enjoyed more longevity in Japan due to the RPG craze (which N64 failed to hold onto, but PSX picked up).

The Wii numbers are closer to the SNES numbers than perhaps any other console, in terms of percentages. When talking about total volume, the Wii was SNES time 2.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

Jumpin said:

You have to align your SNES numbers by market due to a staggered release. So while it appears flatter over time, if you align them so 1990 is year 1 for Japan, 1991 is year 1 for NA, and 1992 is year 1 for Europe, then things become more clear. Wii is easier to measure due to a near worldwide launch in major markets in late 2006. Anyway, you’re not wrong when looking at worldwide numbers as a single market, but that’s not how the SNES rolled out.

So,

Yr 1 - 1.4, 2, 2 = 5.4

Yr 2 - 2.4, 4.9, 1.5 = 8.8

Yr 3 - 3.6, 4.4, 1 = 8.1

Yr 4 - 4.4, 3.7, 0.25 = 8.1

Yr 5 - 2.7, 2.6, 0.1 = 5.4

Yr 6 - 1.8, 1.1, 0.05 = 2.95

Yr 7 - 0.6, .5, 0 = 1.1

Granted, these numbers leave out some smaller markets, I know SNES released in 93 and 94 in some of these. And it is noteworthy that SNES enjoyed more longevity in Japan due to the RPG craze (which N64 failed to hold onto, but PSX picked up).

The Wii numbers are closer to the SNES numbers than perhaps any other console, in terms of percentages. When talking about total volume, the Wii was SNES time 2.

Where are you getting those numbers? because i was using the link Rol give me earlier in the thread. It doesn't seem they are the same...



h2ohno said:
There are a lot of myths about the Wii, that it just fizzled out and had a short lifespan when it was the first home console from Nintendo to go over 5 years since the SNES and that people only played Wii Sports and it otherwise gathered dust when it had a higher attach ratio than any Nintendo system - home console and handheld - save for the Gamecube which had a slightly higher attach rate.

Yeah, there were a lot of myths invented to try and discredit the Wii's success.

The "people bought only bought it for Wii Sports/Fit, played for a weekend, then never touched it again" is one of the most absurd. According to Nintendo's own internal data, the Wii has a software to hardware ratio of 9:1, so on average a Wii owner had 9 games for it. It's attach ratio is actually higher than the N64, which was 7:1.

So the average Wii owner bought more games than the average N64 owner.

Last edited by curl-6 - on 07 May 2019