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This place is getting deserted, and we have to do something about it

Forums - Website Topics - This place is getting deserted, and we have to do something about it

For any of you complaining about moderators, this is NOT the thread for it. If you want these concerns to be addressed, do yourselves a favor and post them in the official Moderator thread: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=224251

Posting this kind of stuff here, will only serve to have your complaints likely missed and not discussed...



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kirby007 said:
all pirates are pc gamers

I hope you are kidding?



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m0ney said:
kirby007 said:
all pirates are pc gamers

I hope you are kidding?

I know, right? Most people in Somalia can't even afford PCs. SMH



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TalonMan said:

Well, you can have disagreement with moderation policy - and then take that disagreement directly to CGI or Ryuu. They are MORE than agreeable to hearing criticism when it comes to this area, and (so far as I've seen) are open to modifying policy if appropriate. Saying you think the moderation sucks and that's why the site is going to die, isn't really helpful. And while I know there have been problems in the past, those types of problems always seem to come and go - yet this site continues on.

Point is - try to be a solution to the problem, rather than just a problem. 

I'll be totally honest - I mentioned to CGI just the other day, having a forum with zero "bad guys" is actually not a good thing. Sure, it seems like everyone is playing nice and all, but things will definitely get stale. The truth is (and I'm willing to bet it applies to a large majority of people here), the biggest douchebags are usually the ones that cause you to sign-up in the first place, so you can join the conversation and call that person out. To this day, I still remember the exact reason I joined - it was because of a user named @Monty (I'm sure some of the older people here like @kirby007 or @RolStoppable remember that ass clown) - but he was exactly the type of user who would currently not exist on these boards for more than 24hrs today, and that's actually a bad thing. Because without forum foils, things tend to get boring, quickly...     ...NONE of this is to imply we need jackassery around here and temporary bans should always remain available. But perhaps perma-bans need to be focused exclusively on spammers and those posting extremely offensive stuff. 

Anyway - this is delving FAR DEEPER than I want to get involved. Just know that CGI and Ryuu are always paying attention to this kind of stuff, and I have no doubt that if you would raise your concerns (in an intelligent, non-combative and non-insulting way), your concerns would be heard and addressed.

Bad guys certainly add some spice to forums and can be the reason why someone signs up to join the conversation, but on the flipside bad guys can easily drive off existing users from the site when moderation is perceived to be stacked in favor of the bad guys. The literal enforcement of the forum rules is a problem.

Bad guys tend to test the boundaries in order to do their thing while going unpunished. Since reports cease to work under such circumstances, there comes the point where users call out bad guys themselves and call them what they are. Then the literal enforcement of the rules comes into play and trigger words like 'troll' lead to moderation of the person who calls out while the person who gets called out remains untouched. From the mod team's perspective, this might seem like the correct way to go because the rules are enforced as they are written. But from the users' perspective, it's a place where bad guys enjoy benefits while an objectively true post can get you moderated. Then it's usually the same few people ruining various threads because the mods consider it within the rules while the community knows that calling the behavior out can result in a penalty, so good guys begin to use alternatives and eventually migrate to places like NeoGAF, ResetEra or Discord where the same problem doesn't exist for different reasons.

There's got to be a change in moderation, so when bad guys don't get moderated, the rest of the community should at least have the right to call bad guys out. That would even the playing field. But as it is now, a bad guy enjoys the same protection as a good guy when being called something despite there being a difference between being called something for good reason and being called something for no good reason. I doubt that anyone considers it a consolation when their ban note reads that the mod team agrees with them, but rules are rules. That just makes the whole situation more perplexing. The mod team knows that something is wrong, but does it anyway.

Concerns getting addressed by the mod team is unfortunately not something that holds 100% true. In this thread here we had a short stretch where mZuzek talked about fear of the mod team and cited an example where multiple users contacted him in private to warn him that he could get moderated for something that had no business getting moderated. CGI's response to that was to snip that portion from mZuzek's post, basically an attempt to sweep it all under the rug. The point wasn't pressed further because... well, fear of the mod team. If they decide a topic shouldn't be talked about, you better stay silent. That makes it difficult to improve things for the community, because what is conveyed is that you aren't supposed to talk about where something went wrong, why it went wrong and how the situation could have been handled and resolved better.

The quality of moderation is the one point in this thread that almost exclusively concerns longtime users (1+ years of activity). Losing people that way means fewer posts and fewer threads which in turn can lead to disinterest in the site from other users which reduces the daily amount of total posts further. This is a point that first and foremost concerns user retention rates. More specific criticism regarding moderation can be directed to a different thread you mentioned in a later post, but as a general point it's on topic here.

Getting new users to sign up in order to replace those who left is a matter of the functional side of the website. How does the site perform on mobile devices, are the ads intrusive etc. The ads are something that the admins of this site aren't in control of, so it's essentially mandatory to either sign up for the Supporter program or use an adblock. Sales estimates for 2019 need a place where weekly and cumulative sales can be looked up. As it is right now, people can get the impression that VGC has stopped all tracking because the pages for yearly sales end at 2018.

I think that summed all of the big points that were raised in this thread.



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As a relatively new member myself, I have a totally not serious proposal: lift the ban on Gamemaster! Ha!



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BanjoPickles said:
As a relatively new member myself, I have a totally not serious proposal: lift the ban on Gamemaster! Ha!

Were you reading some of his blogs and started feeling nostalgic?

It's too bad he flipped out so often, when he returned with an alt, he was much better. I don't think he threatened to visit violence upon any mods for example.

Anyways, his blogs will be missed. 



Chinese food for breakfast

 

kirby007 said:
Bahahaha drunk posts are the best posts!

Not all pc gamers are pirates, but all pirates are pc gamers

Not true, the game was also ported to NES and MegaDrive. But yeah, much fun on PC too.



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my greatest games: 2017, 2018, 2019

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Well, I'm usually more a reader than a poster. I do like many posts here, disagree and agree with many but I end up not replying much.

mZuzek said:
AngryLittleAlchemist said:

I guess you think OTB is irrelevant then?

I don't, but... hmm, let's not go there. But I did think he had been around for longer. I never said there are no relevant users from this period, only that there are few, and if anything, it kinda shows here - with you and Bofferbrauer turning up, from late 2016/early 2017, and now OTBWY who is from mid 2017... and so far, no 2018 or 2019 users mentioned at all. It's easy to see that there's been a decline in new users.

I joined in 2016 but my activity flows with news. These days have been a bit boring.

mZuzek said:
CommandoII said:
Additionally, to the discussion of the mod/ban concerns (which from my viewpoint has been an ever-present thing here [NOTABLE to THE DISCUSSSION, so I deem the posts here valid, but think it is still a "secondary issue".]) I always wondered why, at the end of the day, Fanboy-ism was banned from the beginning/early days. I agree that it CAN thwart meaningful discussion at times; but that is honestly the reason we all wanted to engage in the first place. {This is why there are the NINTENDO, SONY, and Microsoft discussion Tabs/areas. At the end of the day we really just wanted to bash the "other side" (without a ban) and we used make a big production about who was changing sides and what-not. (I jumped from Nintendo to Xbox and now I went to the Dark Side) It's fun. We have these game opinions and our culture is to type-scream those opinions to others, especially the ones who don't wanna hear it. Ha ha ah.
The point is, I feel the whole mod/user war undercurrent was just a cat and mouse game because we had this rule of argue, but don't REALLY argue, that's not nice, and people wanted to get really clever about breaking the rule in indirect ways. The mods eventually had to come in and start banning people who really were abusive to the rules, and they would just come back later with new names and the beat went on...
It was a lot of fun though...
(thoughts?)

Yeah, I'm a little bit torn on the whole mod situation showing up here in this thread. We can dismiss them and pretend it's a non-issue all we want, but there has been a number of people coming here to express their distaste for the situation and ignoring that is ignoring a real thing that's going on. I can't speak for them, because I haven't been moderated in years (though a mod did approach me via PM recently), but I do sometimes feel almost... privileged. Like for some reason it doesn't really matter what I say, as long as I'm not being blatantly offensive I can get away with things other users don't seem to. Maybe that's just me, though.

I know the mods are likely to dismiss these concerns as just moaning from toxic members, and they may or may not be right, but I think there's a certain stubborness, maybe even arrogance, about the team at the moment. They're not really wrong to do what they do, after all the place does have rules. I've always been thankful to the work the mods put in on VGC, because it's what kept the place full of sensible and constructive people, but maybe now, with the reduced activity around and fewer new users, it could be the time to start reviewing those concepts and try to take a more lenient approach to moderations. It's clear that many members have been scared away by the nature of bans here, and funny enough, looking back at some of our oldest users still around, many of them haven't always had the most enviable behavior.

Maybe we could introduce new ways of moderation? Something that drives people to be more constructive and less toxic, without driving them away? For example, say instead of there being warnings and bans, there's something in between, like a half-ban or something, where the person isn't allowed to do certain actions for a while but can still come around and discuss the matters of their moderation or whatever.

Bofferbrauer2 said:

I would have mentioned QuickRick, but he fell of a cliff already...

Also, how could you forget about Marth?

I didn't, I actually thought he'd been around longer. Like, much longer. Still early 2017, though. And no, quickrick doesn't count.

I disagreed with a few warnings I got. One of the the guy was rude and I replied as rude as he was. I got moderated, but not him. The last one I was banned because I called someone Nintendo warrior which is on the forbidden "fanboy vocabulary".

Anyway, I wouldn't say that mods here are bad, I don't think so, but at the same time after a few moderations the way I learned to avoid moderation is just to avoid posting when I disagree. Like I said, I don't post a lot, but I've been posting less as a result of my personal experience with moderation.

This is not a criticism, but this is what happened. To avoid moderation I avoid disagreeing. When I agree though, most times I don't have anything else to add.

FragileSurface said:
Wouldn't be surprised if those intrusive video ads have something to do with it. I understand you need revenue, but damn.

I agree that it's a bit too much. Since I moved from Chrmoe to FF, it's fine. FF is good at getting rid of ads and privacy issues.



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When PS4 will hit 100m consoles sold: Before Christmas 2019

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TalonMan said:
For any of you complaining about moderators, this is NOT the thread for it. If you want these concerns to be addressed, do yourselves a favor and post them in the official Moderator thread: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=224251

Posting this kind of stuff here, will only serve to have your complaints likely missed and not discussed...

Yep - that's part of the problem too I suppose - given the topic of the post - moderation is a valid response and dismissing it as 'wrong place' is part of that same issue. 2 major issues for me - it's a PITA to log in here - I have to argue with my security settings because this login is not protected. I'm sure many people just give up at that point. The moderation - but no one wants to hear or care about it. I've never been moderated, but I don't post often - because the mods here pick sides - and it's easier to lurk and not deal with it.

COKTOE said:
BanjoPickles said:
As a relatively new member myself, I have a totally not serious proposal: lift the ban on Gamemaster! Ha!

Were you reading some of his blogs and started feeling nostalgic?

It's too bad he flipped out so often, when he returned with an alt, he was much better. I don't think he threatened to visit violence upon any mods for example.

Anyways, his blogs will be missed. 

Haha! I remember getting a kick out of his incoherent nonsense on 1Up. Poor guy, all he ever wanted to be was the Bruno Mars of the online gaming forums!