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Forums - Gaming Discussion - When did you first notice that grafix had diminishing returns?

Cerebralbore101 said:
Going from Xbox to 360 wasn't a very big leap. At least not in the early years. SNES blew away NES. N64 blew away SNES. PS2 blew away PS1. 360 did not blow away OG Xbox. PS3 blew away PS2, but PS2 was a very low bar. Hell, OG Xbox blew PS2 away.

If PS3 blew PS2 away, then 360 also blew away PS2, didn't it?

And since most OG Xbox games looked the same as the PS2 versions (because they were lazy ports from the PS2), the leap from OG Xbox to 360 was also big.



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John2290 said:
Ray tracing is just about to change that. Them demo's are insane.

Indeed and remember the ps3 CELL did it first



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Conina said:
Cerebralbore101 said:
Going from Xbox to 360 wasn't a very big leap. At least not in the early years. SNES blew away NES. N64 blew away SNES. PS2 blew away PS1. 360 did not blow away OG Xbox. PS3 blew away PS2, but PS2 was a very low bar. Hell, OG Xbox blew PS2 away.

If PS3 blew PS2 away, then 360 also blew away PS2, didn't it?

And since most OG Xbox games looked the same as the PS2 versions (because they were lazy ports from the PS2), the leap from OG Xbox to 360 was also big.

Yes 360 also blew PS2 away. But that's not how most people judge a generational leap. They compare the most powerful console of last gen to the least powerful console of current gen. Genesis/Megadrive blew away the NES. PS1 blew away the SNES. PS2 blew away the PS1. 360 did not blow away the Xbox. 

When comparing generations we should compare the best games on the system, not whatever lazy ports were thrown around. After all we want to compare what a system is realistically capable of, not what the average game looked like. I mean, should we just say that since the vast majority of games released on PC are 2D Indies, that PC isn't a powerful platform? Wouldn't that be a dumb conclusion? 

I agree that most Xbox games were just lazy PS2 ports though. But a lot of the PC ports on OG Xbox were a cut above. 



Cerebralbore101 said:

Yes 360 also blew PS2 away. But that's not how most people judge a generational leap. They compare the most powerful console of last gen to the least powerful console of current gen. Genesis/Megadrive blew away the NES. PS1 blew away the SNES. PS2 blew away the PS1. 360 did not blow away the Xbox. 

Do you really think that is the way how most people compared generational leaps?

  • Then most people would only compare the least powerful 4th gen console against the Neo Geo AES.
  • Then most people would only compare the 3DO against the Genesis.
  • Then most people would only compare the DreamCast against the N64.
  • Then most people would only compare the Wii against the OG Xbox.
  • Then most people would only compare the WiiU against the PS3/360.

It makes a lot more sense when people compare the consoles of the new gen with the most popular (instead of the most powerful) console of the last gen (so comparisons to NES, SNES, PS1, PS2). But eventually of course more than one comparison base per gen is valid.



The transition to 3D. It was rough at first.

Ray tracing will have plenty rough edges at first as well and at first won't look as good on console as pre baked games.



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Conina said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

Yes 360 also blew PS2 away. But that's not how most people judge a generational leap. They compare the most powerful console of last gen to the least powerful console of current gen. Genesis/Megadrive blew away the NES. PS1 blew away the SNES. PS2 blew away the PS1. 360 did not blow away the Xbox. 

Do you really think that is the way how most people compared generational leaps?

  • Then most people would only compare the least powerful 4th gen console against the Neo Geo AES.
  • Then most people would only compare the 3DO against the Genesis.
  • Then most people would only compare the DreamCast against the N64.
  • Then most people would only compare the Wii against the OG Xbox.
  • Then most people would only compare the WiiU against the PS3/360.

It makes a lot more sense when people compare the consoles of the new gen with the most popular (instead of the most powerful) console of the last gen (so comparisons to NES, SNES, PS1, PS2). But eventually of course more than one comparison base per gen is valid.

Having lived through the 90's I can tell you that nobody knew or cared that there was a home version of Neo Geo. So nobody would have compared it to anything.

3DO and Dreamcast were not successful enough to even last a full generation. 

Wii was gen 7, but everybody knew it had gen 6 tech in it. Same goes for Wii U. I don't expect anybody to compare next gen to Switch. That would be silly. 

But you are right that popularity is something to be considered. It isn't the be all and end all though. Most people compare the most powerful (yet reasonably popular) console of last gen, to the least powerful (yet reasonably popular console of new gen).



John2290 said:
Ray tracing is just about to change that. Them demo's are insane.

Graphic companies and software engineers have been demoing all sorts of reflection mapping and photorealistic rendering for nearly 20 years now, though. And developers have continuously been aware and using new methods to make their games look better. When it finally comes the time for ray-tracing, the transition will end up being smooth... as it happens to most new techniques.

Did you notice games with image-based lighting like Rise of the Tomb Raider, for instance? Cool, complex stuff, that.



 

 

 

 

 

PS4/Xbox One was the point where diminishing returns seem to kick in hard in my opinion.

In previous generations, games like Mario 64, Rogue Squadron II, and Gears of War blew my mind with how good they looked; not only were they lightyears ahead of anything from the previous generation, but they upended my perceptions of what a video game could look like.

Even 5+ years after the release of PS4/Xbone there still hasn't been anything on them that has met the expectations I had of what a true generational leap over PS3/360 would look like.

Now, that's not to say they look bad. Far from it; in my opinion even a lot of Wii U and Switch games look beautiful. Heck, as someone who grew up in the 90s and gamed through the formative years of primitive 3D, there are Xbox 360 games that still look great to me. I just feel like the jump from the 7th to the 8th gen was not as impactful as between prior gens, due to diminishing returns.



Diminishing returns? 7th gen. The jump from 2D to 3D was mindblowing. The jump from the blocky garbage of N64 to Gamecube's detail blew my mind again. But the jump to HD just wasn't as exciting. Especially since I had a 7th gen console, the Wii, with its minor improvement over Gamecube, to compare to the HD twins, and I still liked how Wii games looked even with HD games to play. Like, I could see what HD was, and I liked it, but it wasn't mindblowing anymore. The jump from 7th to 8th gen was less exciting still. Forget diminishing returns, now they were just returns I didn't even care all that much about. NIntendo going HD was nice, and I certainly noticed how much graphics had improved from the 360/PS3 to the XBO/PS4, but I'm reaching the limit of how much I care. I think within a console generation or two, I won't even be able to notice it. Now that said, with the coming of VR, graphical improvements have become a bit more interesting, as those diminishing returns look less diminished in VR. That's probably the most exciting thing graphics wise in the 8th gen is VR, and it will continue to be the most exciting thing in the 9th gen. The advent of VR in the 8th gen has been a bit like the advent of 3D in the 5th, but not as exciting because it isn't all that economically viable for most people and has a few other obstacles to work out. 9th gen's VR will be like the jump from 64 to Gamecube all over again, except possibly a bit more exciting because it'll start to work out its flaws and become appealing to more people. But 10th gen will again be boring, as by then even NIntendo will probably have VR with good graphics. Everything will be 4k 120fps even in VR and there just won't be much need for much more improvement beyond a midgen refresh. The 11th gen will have to use something besides graphics to sell itself, but hopefully by then there'll be more interesting things, like advanced AI and super immersive VR techniques that go beyond visual fidelity that require more advanced hardware. Beyond that, with the rate of technological change, I don't know it's worth predicting or even supposing anything, as we might not even use consoles, or care that they're gone, we might have something we like better.



That's kinda silly considering we're at the edge of the most impacting revolution in graphics since going 3D. Raytracing will have us snub at anything that's still rasterized in the near future.



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