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Forums - Gaming Discussion - When did you first notice that grafix had diminishing returns?

In my brain I know it since PS1 when I first saw FF IX and though it couldn't get better.

But since every time it does then I don't really bother with diminishing returns, we are every gen getting closer to almost all games having excelent graphics.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

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curl-6 said:
linkink said:

PS3 of course is more complex system. That doesn't mean ps4 can't see similar gains, which it has, and  it's not some crazy over the top opinion. After all 360 did see similar gains if not more, it wasn't nearly as complex as ps3. Bigger gains will come from rendering techniques and development tools, i think 360,XB1 and ps4 have proven that. So to say ps4 graphical progression can't match ps3 because ps3 was more complex is 100% false.

The 360's hardware was not mature technology when it came out; stuff like unified lighting and shading and a multi-core, multi-threaded CPU were new to the console space. Not so with PS4 and Xbox One; they were based on off-the-shelf parts using nothing cutting edge or exotic, as a result they simply have less room for graphics to grow over time. Last gen you got big jumps on both the software and hardware utilization side. This gen you only get the software advances since the hardware is easy to fully harness from the start.

Unless are a developer you can not make such claims. The more  a developer works on the hardware, the better they will get at using it. No matter how you look at it, even if it's not exotic it's still very complex to make games and fully harness the hardware being worked on. Like i said ps4 gains have been gigantic as ps3. Don't try to pass your opinion up as fact.

I mean Look at this, this is the same developer that made killzone, and the visuals in a massive open world destroy killzone visually.

Last edited by linkink - on 07 May 2019

linkink said:
curl-6 said:

The 360's hardware was not mature technology when it came out; stuff like unified lighting and shading and a multi-core, multi-threaded CPU were new to the console space. Not so with PS4 and Xbox One; they were based on off-the-shelf parts using nothing cutting edge or exotic, as a result they simply have less room for graphics to grow over time. Last gen you got big jumps on both the software and hardware utilization side. This gen you only get the software advances since the hardware is easy to fully harness from the start.

Unless are a developer you can not make such claims. The more  a developer works on the hardware, the better they will get at using it. No matter how you look at it, even if it's not exotic it's still very complex to make games and fully harness the hardware being worked on. Like i said ps4 gains have been gigantic as ps3. Don't try to pass your opinion up as fact.

I mean Look at this, this is the same developer that made killzone, and the visuals in a massive open world destroy killzone visually.

I'm not passing off opinions as fact. 

It is a fact, not an opinion, that PS4/Xbone were built with mature, standardized CPU/GPU technology and PS3/360 were not.

On the other hand, it is an opinion, not a fact, that PS4 has progressed as far as PS3 did graphically.

Last edited by curl-6 - on 07 May 2019

curl-6 said:
linkink said:

Unless are a developer you can not make such claims. The more  a developer works on the hardware, the better they will get at using it. No matter how you look at it, even if it's not exotic it's still very complex to make games and fully harness the hardware being worked on. Like i said ps4 gains have been gigantic as ps3. Don't try to pass your opinion up as fact.

I mean Look at this, this is the same developer that made killzone, and the visuals in a massive open world destroy killzone visually.

I'm not passing off opinions as fact. 

It is a fact, not an opinion, that PS4/Xbone were built with mature, standardized CPU/GPU technology and PS3/360 were not.

On the other hand, it is an opinion, not a fact, that PS4 has progressed as far as PS3 did graphically.

I never said it was a fact ps4 has progressed as much PS3. You were trying to pass off that's its impossible to see similar gains because of the hardware being standardized CPU/GPU technology, when in fact it is possible just  by engines evolving, and new ways of rendering showing up. 

Last edited by linkink - on 07 May 2019

linkink said:
curl-6 said:

I'm not passing off opinions as fact. 

It is a fact, not an opinion, that PS4/Xbone were built with mature, standardized CPU/GPU technology and PS3/360 were not.

On the other hand, it is an opinion, not a fact, that PS4 has progressed as far as PS3 did graphically.

I never said it was a fact ps4 has progressed as much PS3. You were trying to pass off that's its impossible to see similar gains because of the hardware being standardized CPU/GPU technology, when in fact it is possible just  by engines evolving, and new ways of rendering showing up. 

Engines evolving and new methods of rendering showing up happened last generation too. But in addition to that came big strides in hardware utilization that just haven't happened this time cos the hardware was easy to harness from the get go.



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curl-6 said:
linkink said:

I never said it was a fact ps4 has progressed as much PS3. You were trying to pass off that's its impossible to see similar gains because of the hardware being standardized CPU/GPU technology, when in fact it is possible just  by engines evolving, and new ways of rendering showing up. 

Engines evolving and new methods of rendering showing up happened last generation too. But in addition to that came big strides in hardware utilization that just haven't happened this time cos the hardware was easy to harness from the get go.

This is just speculation on your part. We don't how big the strides were in hardware utilization were this gen, it's safe to assume ps3 were probably much bigger because it of how complex it was, we can't say ps4 didn't have big strides in hardware utilization when results show it clearly has. Before ps4 came out no developer has ever tried to max out a Radeon HD 7850, with a a weak  8 core Jaguar CPU. Besides engine evolving, and new rendering techniques  alone can be  more impressive  then better hardware utilization  and rendering techniques combined, it just depends how advanced the former is. 

Wanna know how subjective people opinions are in progress here is a video comparison GEARS 1-3 on 360, and most think gears 1 looks the best.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSR0wncErTw&t=134s

Honestly to me  The progression in ps4 and ps4 look very similar, kind find ps4 to be more impressive.



I much prefer sylized graphics and those kind of graphics are good enough att PS2 GC levels if you bump resolution to 720 or 1080.

My biggest problem with "realistic" graphics since PS3/360 days is they fall further and further into the uncanny valley.

If I was to decide I would prefer sylized graphics but focusing the GPU power on having more going on (more effects, more models etc) instead of making it look realistic.

Also for me personally, while playing on a TV at normal viewing distance, the hunt for more pixels is a waste (4K etc). Run it in HD but focus the GPU power on stable framerate and more effects.



linkink said:
curl-6 said:

Engines evolving and new methods of rendering showing up happened last generation too. But in addition to that came big strides in hardware utilization that just haven't happened this time cos the hardware was easy to harness from the get go.

This is just speculation on your part. We don't how big the strides were in hardware utilization were this gen, it's safe to assume ps3 were probably much bigger because it of how complex it was, we can't say ps4 didn't have big strides in hardware utilization when results show it clearly has. Before ps4 came out no developer has ever tried to max out a Radeon HD 7850, with a a weak  8 core Jaguar CPU. Besides engine evolving, and new rendering techniques  alone can be  more impressive  then better hardware utilization  and rendering techniques combined, it just depends how advanced the former is. 

Wanna know how subjective people opinions are in progress here is a video comparison GEARS 1-3 on 360, and most think gears 1 looks the best.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSR0wncErTw&t=134s

Honestly to me  The progression in ps4 and ps4 look very similar, kind find ps4 to be more impressive.

It's neither speculation nor opinion that PS4 is based on mature standardized CPU/GPU tech and PS3 used exotic hardware that took developers years to master. Those are the concrete facts of this case.



linkink said:
curl-6 said:

Engines evolving and new methods of rendering showing up happened last generation too. But in addition to that came big strides in hardware utilization that just haven't happened this time cos the hardware was easy to harness from the get go.

This is just speculation on your part. We don't how big the strides were in hardware utilization were this gen, it's safe to assume ps3 were probably much bigger because it of how complex it was, we can't say ps4 didn't have big strides in hardware utilization when results show it clearly has. Before ps4 came out no developer has ever tried to max out a Radeon HD 7850, with a a weak  8 core Jaguar CPU. Besides engine evolving, and new rendering techniques  alone can be  more impressive  then better hardware utilization  and rendering techniques combined, it just depends how advanced the former is. 

Wanna know how subjective people opinions are in progress here is a video comparison GEARS 1-3 on 360, and most think gears 1 looks the best.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSR0wncErTw&t=134s

Honestly to me  The progression in ps4 and ps4 look very similar, kind find ps4 to be more impressive.

wow the nostalgia goggles must be pretty thick to think that Gears 1 is the best looking in the series.
Both Gears 2 and Gears 3 look vastly superior which isn't surprising considering Unreal Engine 3 was updated several times in those years.

Also that video not only compares multiplayer gameplay, where graphics are toned down as much as possible to make sure that people have fluent gameplay sessions. They also do split screen that forces a lower resolution.



rnrnrnrnrnrn

curl-6 said:
rnrnrnrnrnrnrn
linkink said:
rn

This is just speculation on your part. We don't how big the strides were in hardware utilization were this gen, it's safe to assume ps3 were probably much bigger because it of how complex it was, we can't say ps4 didn't have big strides in hardware utilization when results show it clearly has. Before ps4 came out no developer has ever tried to max out a Radeon HD 7850, with a a weak  8 core Jaguar CPU. Besides engine evolving, and new rendering techniques  alone can be  more impressive  then better hardware utilization  and rendering techniques combined, it just depends how advanced the former is. 

rn

Wanna know how subjective people opinions are in progress here is a video comparison GEARS 1-3 on 360, and most think gears 1 looks the best.

rn

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSR0wncErTw&t=134s


Honestly to me  The progression in ps4 and ps4 look very similar, kind find ps4 to be more impressive.


It's neither speculation nor opinion that PS4 is based on mature standardized CPU/GPU tech and PS3 used exotic hardware that took developers years to master. Those are the concrete facts of this case.

Your speculation comes from you assuming big strides were not made on ps4 hardware utilization based on it being off the shelf parts which is nonsense. if you told most people that  Radeon HD 7850 With 8 core Jaguar would be able to run RDR2, Horizon, GOW, and Battlefront they would have thought you were crazy. Even it's off the shelf parts developers still need years of experience to max out the hardware. It took nearly 6 years for some of the most talented developers to actually get games on par with 360 on ps3 , some developers were actually never able to. 

Last edited by linkink - on 08 May 2019