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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Digital Foundry Analysis Video Mortal Kombat 11: Switch vs PS4/Pro/Xbox One/X - From Handheld To 4K!

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Damn Switch has better censorship than on PS4.. they blurred out the entire characters.

Jokes



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curl-6 said:

Annoying that Digital Foundry no longer allows you to view and copy direct captures, or at least I can't figure out how to do it.

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2019-mortal-kombat-11-tech-analysis

I wanted to put the portable mode side by side with MK on Vita to get a direct comparison of the jump for mobile MK.

Putting like-for-like screens of PS4/Xbone and Switch docked next to each other would also be interesting now that we finally have a reliable source for fair comparison.

This guy's  video is actually a much better comparison, you can see both games right next to each other like you wanted. The difference is night and day.

Last edited by linkink - on 30 April 2019

Pemalite said:

If you want to retain 60fps, there is going to be some serious concessions to visual fidelity, which happened on the Switch.
But in saying that... 60fps is certainly more important than texture resolution or output resolution for a fighting game, responsiveness is absolute key.

With that said... The Xbox One version doesn't exactly escape unscathed either, it looks like a dogs breakfast, it just doesn't have the chunky bits the Switch version has that takes it a step down.

I believe the texture quality on Switch is more about RAM. This game was designed for consoles with 5GB to work with, maybe 3GB for Switch? Either way, certainly less than what the game was designed for. Memory often plays a bigger role on texture quality versus other resources like GPU and CPU. I mean the reason X1X has better textures is a massive memory increase, while PS4 Pro textures are generally the same.

One thing I noticed about some of the final ports to 7th gen games was the texture quality became very poor. I suspect that was likely due to the more memory demanding games/engines so the compromise was low quality textures. Some have said limited storage is the problem but I don't buy that.

The base X1 version looks fine, I'm not sure what you're talking about. Based on the video its somewhere below 900p to 1080p, with little compromise to graphics settings. You're understating the disparity between X1 and Switch.

Last edited by Mr Puggsly - on 02 May 2019

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After taking a closer look at the Switch version, there are some big missing visual feature sets ...

No physically based lighting, no GPU accelerated particles, no volumetric lighting along with the many other cutbacks in visual quality ...



Mr Puggsly said:
Pemalite said:

If you want to retain 60fps, there is going to be some serious concessions to visual fidelity, which happened on the Switch.
But in saying that... 60fps is certainly more important than texture resolution or output resolution for a fighting game, responsiveness is absolute key.

With that said... The Xbox One version doesn't exactly escape unscathed either, it looks like a dogs breakfast, it just doesn't have the chunky bits the Switch version has that takes it a step down.

I believe the texture quality on Switch is more about RAM. This game was designed for consoles with 5GB to work with, maybe 3GB for Switch? Either way, certainly less than what the game was designed for. Memory often plays a bigger role on texture quality versus other resources like GPU and CPU. I mean the reason X1X has better textures is a massive memory increase, while PS4 Pro textures are generally the same.

One thing I noticed about some of the final ports to 7th gen games was the texture quality became very poor. I suspect that was likely due to the more memory demanding games/engines so the compromise was low quality textures. Some have said limited storage is the problem but I don't buy that.

The base X1 version looks fine, I'm not sure what you're talking about. Based on the video its somewhere below 900p to 1080p, with little compromise to graphics settings. You're understating the disparity between X1 and Switch.

Ram is a big part of it, not just capacity but bandwidth as well.
So is the Texture Mapping Units on a GPU too... And so many other factors.

In short the Switch has 1/3rd of the texture mapping units as the Xbox One... But each unit as it's Maxwell derived should be vastly more efficient than what the Xbox One has, granted the Xbox has a much larger amount of them to make up for it.

When it comes to rendering it's very difficult to just point to a single aspect and claim it's the sole culprit, typically the issue is a top-to-bottom problem, there are so many stages that introduce limitations in a GPU's design.

As for the 7th gen taking a hit with texture quality is actually rather simple to explain... As we entered the 8th gen, game engines started to employ dynamic lighting and shadowing effects rather than having those details as part of the texture work.
So when the games were back-ported to the 7th gen, they would cull the lighting and shadowing as the 7th gen hardware just wasn't capable enough, but some developers didn't go back to rework the textures to include those details in the texture maps to allow the 7th gen hardware to truly shine.

*****

I should have made myself a bit clearer. The base Xbox One game does look fine, when compared to other base Xbox One games... But I am pretty intolerant of anything sub-1080P, which the Xbox One spends the majority of it's time at... And often drops below even 900P. Ouch. That means the image is going to look very soft.
Rendering resolution is something I have always been vocal about, even during the 7th gen, this is nothing new.

And then you have the per-object motion blur which is a bit of a step down as well, which is an issue it shares with the Playstation 4 as well, but at a lower rendering resolution it takes a little bit of an extra hit.

In short, to me it looks like a dogs breakfast. - Thankfully the Playstation 4 Pro and Xbox One X resolves the bulk of those issues entirely, even if it doesn't manage a full fat 4k 100% of the time... But I guess that is why I am a PC gamer?



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

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Pemalite said:
Mr Puggsly said:

I believe the texture quality on Switch is more about RAM. This game was designed for consoles with 5GB to work with, maybe 3GB for Switch? Either way, certainly less than what the game was designed for. Memory often plays a bigger role on texture quality versus other resources like GPU and CPU. I mean the reason X1X has better textures is a massive memory increase, while PS4 Pro textures are generally the same.

One thing I noticed about some of the final ports to 7th gen games was the texture quality became very poor. I suspect that was likely due to the more memory demanding games/engines so the compromise was low quality textures. Some have said limited storage is the problem but I don't buy that.

The base X1 version looks fine, I'm not sure what you're talking about. Based on the video its somewhere below 900p to 1080p, with little compromise to graphics settings. You're understating the disparity between X1 and Switch.

Ram is a big part of it, not just capacity but bandwidth as well.
So is the Texture Mapping Units on a GPU too... And so many other factors.

In short the Switch has 1/3rd of the texture mapping units as the Xbox One... But each unit as it's Maxwell derived should be vastly more efficient than what the Xbox One has, granted the Xbox has a much larger amount of them to make up for it.

When it comes to rendering it's very difficult to just point to a single aspect and claim it's the sole culprit, typically the issue is a top-to-bottom problem, there are so many stages that introduce limitations in a GPU's design.

As for the 7th gen taking a hit with texture quality is actually rather simple to explain... As we entered the 8th gen, game engines started to employ dynamic lighting and shadowing effects rather than having those details as part of the texture work.
So when the games were back-ported to the 7th gen, they would cull the lighting and shadowing as the 7th gen hardware just wasn't capable enough, but some developers didn't go back to rework the textures to include those details in the texture maps to allow the 7th gen hardware to truly shine.

*****

I should have made myself a bit clearer. The base Xbox One game does look fine, when compared to other base Xbox One games... But I am pretty intolerant of anything sub-1080P, which the Xbox One spends the majority of it's time at... And often drops below even 900P. Ouch. That means the image is going to look very soft.
Rendering resolution is something I have always been vocal about, even during the 7th gen, this is nothing new.

And then you have the per-object motion blur which is a bit of a step down as well, which is an issue it shares with the Playstation 4 as well, but at a lower rendering resolution it takes a little bit of an extra hit.

In short, to me it looks like a dogs breakfast. - Thankfully the Playstation 4 Pro and Xbox One X resolves the bulk of those issues entirely, even if it doesn't manage a full fat 4k 100% of the time... But I guess that is why I am a PC gamer?

I really don't buy either of your explanations. The Switch is capable of better textures, other 8th gen ports have demonstrated this. Wolfenstein 2 and Doom for example aren't quite that bad, while Hellblade is pretty bad. In this case I blame RAM primarily.

As for the 7th gen ports of 8th gen games, I really doubt its lighting making those textures look so muddy. That doesn't even make sense. That was also years before we saw such advanced lighting in the 8th gen. Meanwhile games like Battlefield 4/Hardline and Wolfenstein: The New Order actually had good textures because those engines were simply better designed to work on 7th gen specs.

Oh please, in the ballpark of 900p is not soft for the average consumer and it also depends on the method of AA used. However, I think its fair to be critical of the UE4 games only doing 720p and soften the image as AA, that looks bad. Those same games tend to be about 900p on PS4.

If MK11 on X1 look like a dogs breakfast, which is a dumb analogy by the way, then you must think the Switch version look like a dog's abortion? Sorry, I'm not very good at analogies either.

I have the X1X so I'm playing games in glorious 1440p - 4K. But I'm not gonna pretend MK11 on X1 looks particularly bad, actually I still play games in 1080p if there is a 60 fps option.



Recently Completed
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for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

Mr Puggsly said:

I really don't buy either of your explanations. The Switch is capable of better textures, other 8th gen ports have demonstrated this. Wolfenstein 2 and Doom for example aren't quite that bad, while Hellblade is pretty bad. In this case I blame RAM primarily.

The Switch wasn't doing 60fps in those titles like it is with Mortal Kombat 11.
Expectations and all that.

Mr Puggsly said:

As for the 7th gen ports of 8th gen games, I really doubt its lighting making those textures look so muddy. That doesn't even make sense. That was also years before we saw such advanced lighting in the 8th gen. Meanwhile games like Battlefield 4/Hardline and Wolfenstein: The New Order actually had good textures because those engines were simply better designed to work on 7th gen specs.

The textures of the 7th gen always looked muddy. But developers worked within the constraints to build art into the assets to make the most of the extremely limited hardware.

Battlefield 4/Hardline is frostbite, it was built with 7th gen in mind... In saying that it's framerate was halved on the 360 and it's texture details, shadowing, lighting and object details were significantly reduced.

Take Dragon Age: Inquisition as a better example, still Frostbite... But the world on Xbox 360 is extremely flat and dull visually by comparison to the Xbox One version.

Mr Puggsly said:

Oh please, in the ballpark of 900p is not soft for the average consumer and it also depends on the method of AA used. However, I think its fair to be critical of the UE4 games only doing 720p and soften the image as AA, that looks bad. Those same games tend to be about 900p on PS4.

I'm not the average consumer. Nor do I care what the average consumer needs/wants/desires. The average consumer has absolutely zero bearing on my own opinions.

900P is poor, That's 1600x900.
The Xbox One version of Mortal Kombat 11 can and will fall below that... Which looks even poorer.
And it doesn't matter if a game is 900P on the Playstation 4, that will also look soft visually and thus not appealing.

Mr Puggsly said:

If MK11 on X1 look like a dogs breakfast, which is a dumb analogy by the way, then you must think the Switch version look like a dog's abortion? Sorry, I'm not very good at analogies either.

Yes. The Switch version does look absolutely terrible. It's impressive they managed to get it running as well as they did considering the anemic hardware.
Not sure what you are trying to achieve with this statement though? I don't favor any console?

Mr Puggsly said:

I have the X1X so I'm playing games in glorious 1440p - 4K. But I'm not gonna pretend MK11 on X1 looks particularly bad, actually I still play games in 1080p if there is a 60 fps option.

Microsoft took forever to enable 1440P support, I am glad they eventually did (Should have been there on launch!).
The Xbox One X is definitely the definitive console to play Mortal Kombat 11 on, which seems to be a very common precedent for multi-platform games these days... And for good reason, it's got the best hardware outside of PC gaming.

But I am not going to make a statement that sub-1080P output is going to be good by any stretch. It's not, it makes the visuals look muddy, then again, I find full 1080P to be rather average anyway.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Good the Switch version holds up well enough. Sure its lesser than the other versions, but hey. a competent version of MK11 on the same console as Smash is OK by me.



Pemalite said:
Mr Puggsly said:

I really don't buy either of your explanations. The Switch is capable of better textures, other 8th gen ports have demonstrated this. Wolfenstein 2 and Doom for example aren't quite that bad, while Hellblade is pretty bad. In this case I blame RAM primarily.

The Switch wasn't doing 60fps in those titles like it is with Mortal Kombat 11.
Expectations and all that.

Mr Puggsly said:

As for the 7th gen ports of 8th gen games, I really doubt its lighting making those textures look so muddy. That doesn't even make sense. That was also years before we saw such advanced lighting in the 8th gen. Meanwhile games like Battlefield 4/Hardline and Wolfenstein: The New Order actually had good textures because those engines were simply better designed to work on 7th gen specs.

The textures of the 7th gen always looked muddy. But developers worked within the constraints to build art into the assets to make the most of the extremely limited hardware.

Battlefield 4/Hardline is frostbite, it was built with 7th gen in mind... In saying that it's framerate was halved on the 360 and it's texture details, shadowing, lighting and object details were significantly reduced.

Take Dragon Age: Inquisition as a better example, still Frostbite... But the world on Xbox 360 is extremely flat and dull visually by comparison to the Xbox One version.

Mr Puggsly said:

Oh please, in the ballpark of 900p is not soft for the average consumer and it also depends on the method of AA used. However, I think its fair to be critical of the UE4 games only doing 720p and soften the image as AA, that looks bad. Those same games tend to be about 900p on PS4.

I'm not the average consumer. Nor do I care what the average consumer needs/wants/desires. The average consumer has absolutely zero bearing on my own opinions.

900P is poor, That's 1600x900.
The Xbox One version of Mortal Kombat 11 can and will fall below that... Which looks even poorer.
And it doesn't matter if a game is 900P on the Playstation 4, that will also look soft visually and thus not appealing.

Mr Puggsly said:

If MK11 on X1 look like a dogs breakfast, which is a dumb analogy by the way, then you must think the Switch version look like a dog's abortion? Sorry, I'm not very good at analogies either.

Yes. The Switch version does look absolutely terrible. It's impressive they managed to get it running as well as they did considering the anemic hardware.
Not sure what you are trying to achieve with this statement though? I don't favor any console?

Mr Puggsly said:

I have the X1X so I'm playing games in glorious 1440p - 4K. But I'm not gonna pretend MK11 on X1 looks particularly bad, actually I still play games in 1080p if there is a 60 fps option.

Microsoft took forever to enable 1440P support, I am glad they eventually did (Should have been there on launch!).
The Xbox One X is definitely the definitive console to play Mortal Kombat 11 on, which seems to be a very common precedent for multi-platform games these days... And for good reason, it's got the best hardware outside of PC gaming.

But I am not going to make a statement that sub-1080P output is going to be good by any stretch. It's not, it makes the visuals look muddy, then again, I find full 1080P to be rather average anyway.

Hellblade isn't 60 fps and the textures are muddy. I just remembered Ark is very muddy. But you ignored some of those games actually have decent textures, the id games. My guess is the engine plays a big role.

No, there are examples of games with good and poor textures in the 7th gen (relatively crisp vs mud). Dragon Age Inquisition is a great example of a game built for 8th gen and poorly scaled down for 7th gen. Shadow of Mordor, Evil Within and Thief all had terrible textures on 7th gen. Forget the "flat" look of the games, the textures are mud.

On a side note, Dragon Age Inquisition is likely a heavily modified version of the engine versus what Battle 4/Hardline uses. I mean MK11 is UE3, so do the math.

You're indeed not the average consumer, that's why guys like me step in to remind you that you're out of touch. Hence, you pop in and make a silly comment and a guy like me responds. Its like yin and yang, a fitting analogy for this game. Either way, ~900p looks pretty fucking crisp compared to ~540p... especially when one version has mud textures.

Frankly, if you just said the X1 version is blurry or whatever, I probably would have ignored you. You pulled me in with the dog vomit analogy, bad analogies upset me.

Last edited by Mr Puggsly - on 03 May 2019

Recently Completed
River City: Rival Showdown
for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

Mr Puggsly said:

Hellblade isn't 60 fps and the textures are muddy. I just remembered Ark is very muddy. But you ignored some of those games actually have decent textures, the id games. My guess is the engine plays a big role.

No, there are examples of games with good and poor textures in the 7th gen (relatively crisp vs mud). Dragon Age Inquisition is a great example of a game built for 8th gen and poorly scaled down for 7th gen. Shadow of Mordor, Evil Within and Thief all had terrible textures on 7th gen. Forget the "flat" look of the games, the textures are mud.

On a side note, Dragon Age Inquisition is likely a heavily modified version of the engine versus what Battle 4/Hardline uses. I mean MK11 is UE3, so do the math.

You're indeed not the average consumer, that's why guys like me step in to remind you that you're out of touch. Hence, you pop in and make a silly comment and a guy like me responds. Its like yin and yang, a fitting analogy for this game. Either way, ~900p looks pretty fucking crisp compared to ~540p... especially when one version has mud textures.

Frankly, if you just said the X1 version is blurry or whatever, I probably would have ignored you. You pulled me in with the dog vomit analogy, bad analogies upset me.

The point you are missing is the baked details that was prevalent in 7th gen games, less so in 8th gen games and not all developers put the effort in to bake lighting and shadowing into 7th gen texture assets. (I.E. Dragon Age.)
There is of course going to be exceptions to the rule... So I am not even sure what you are arguing against anymore.

Engine plays a part, but the 7th gen just isn't capable of dynamic details.

Mr Puggsly said:

You're indeed not the average consumer, that's why guys like me step in to remind you that you're out of touch. Hence, you pop in and make a silly comment and a guy like me responds. Its like yin and yang, a fitting analogy for this game. Either way, ~900p looks pretty fucking crisp compared to ~540p... especially when one version has mud textures.

Frankly, if you just said the X1 version is blurry or whatever, I probably would have ignored you. You pulled me in with the dog vomit analogy, bad analogies upset me.

I don't need you to remind me. Nor am I out of touch.
I have a better understanding on graphics rendering than most... And thus I am well positioned to provide an educated response, if you don't like my opinion, then tough luck! I am providing it anyway.

900P looks like a dogs breakfast. 540P looks even worse. That is honestly the truth. 900P certainly doesn't look "crisp" on a 75" 4k panel... Heck it doesn't look crisp on my 1440P 32" panel. If you disagree, you disagree, no skin off my nose.

Resolution has always been the Achilles heel of the Xbox One, Xbox One S and Xbox One SAD... It's also been a massive issue for all of Nintendo's platforms since the Gamecube. Those are the facts.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--