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PS5>XB4>NS units sold next gen

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RolStoppable said:

fatslob has noticed a good while ago that a specific method provides great leeway to posting, so he uses it to assume stances that he does not necessarily believe in, and he does so in order to target specific people. What looks like something that is important is ultimately only a game between two people. I choose to play it because the decrease in overall site activity has led to a lower number of threads, but I am in the mood to post more often. If you go back to the earlier posts of this long exchange, you'll find me saying that I know that it's an act by fatslob.

fatslob's motivation is probably best explained by himself, but I suspect that he holds a grudge against me for a variety of reasons. Unlike with many other people that hold a grudge against me, I have a hard time to narrow it down to a single reason in his case.

Oh, okay.

Though regarding bold, it's not something I've noticed just now. I've seen people arguing a lot about Switch being one or the other. But I guess it'll be solved automatically when PS5 and XB4 arrives. If Switch 2 is out by then, we'll refer to that as 9th gen. If not, we'll just refer to both Switch, PS5 and XB4 as 9th gen and compare the sales of all of them.



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RolStoppable said:

Generations are defined by time.

Gen 7: DS, PSP, 360, PS3, Wii. Launched from 2004-2006.
Gen 8: 3DS, PSV, Wii U, PS4, XB1. Launched from 2011-2013.
Gen 9: Switch, PS5, XB4. Launched from 2017-2020.

Also, I think this makes a lot of sense. Especially if we during the next few years don't get a successor to Switch (Switch 2) but instead get an incremental upgrade to Switch (Switch Pro) whose sales numbers are combined with the original Switch.

Though I can't figure out which side or argument I'm supporting by referring to Switch as 9th gen.



Replicant said:
RolStoppable said:

fatslob has noticed a good while ago that a specific method provides great leeway to posting, so he uses it to assume stances that he does not necessarily believe in, and he does so in order to target specific people. What looks like something that is important is ultimately only a game between two people. I choose to play it because the decrease in overall site activity has led to a lower number of threads, but I am in the mood to post more often. If you go back to the earlier posts of this long exchange, you'll find me saying that I know that it's an act by fatslob.

fatslob's motivation is probably best explained by himself, but I suspect that he holds a grudge against me for a variety of reasons. Unlike with many other people that hold a grudge against me, I have a hard time to narrow it down to a single reason in his case.

Oh, okay.

Though regarding bold, it's not something I've noticed just now. I've seen people arguing a lot about Switch being one or the other. But I guess it'll be solved automatically when PS5 and XB4 arrives. If Switch 2 is out by then, we'll refer to that as 9th gen. If not, we'll just refer to both Switch, PS5 and XB4 as 9th gen and compare the sales of all of them.

Best way to group a gen is by the games played. If most of the multiplat games Switch plays are the ones on X1 and PS4 it instead of PS5 XB4 then it would make more sense to put it on gen 8.

The problem is that not only did a gen have 2 devices from same corporation (happened as well on one of the arbitrary early gens like Atari) but also migrated/fused 2 gens.

For me it would make more sense to say Nintendo had 3 devices this gen, WiiU (console), 3DS (HH) and Switch (hybrid). Because so far Switch seems to be covering both markets for Nintendo.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

DonFerrari said:

Best way to group a gen is by the games played. If most of the multiplat games Switch plays are the ones on X1 and PS4 it instead of PS5 XB4 then it would make more sense to put it on gen 8.

That makes sense but in that case wouldn't Wii U be a 7th gen console as the majority of its multiplat games were available on PS3 and Xbox 360?

DonFerrari said:

The problem is that not only did a gen have 2 devices from same corporation (happened as well on one of the arbitrary early gens like Atari) but also migrated/fused 2 gens.

For me it would make more sense to say Nintendo had 3 devices this gen, WiiU (console), 3DS (HH) and Switch (hybrid). Because so far Switch seems to be covering both markets for Nintendo.

If Switch 2 launches around the same time as PS5 and XB4 (or 1-2 years after), I'd tend to agree with you. But if Switch gets an incremental upgrade like PS4 Pro whose sales numbers are counted together with the base model, I think it makes sense to consider Switch as part of 9th gen as it competes with the 9th gen consoles.

But really, my point was more so based around the silliness of arguing whether Switch is 8th/9th gen and handheld/home/hybrid. I don't see why it matters.

Edit: Yet, here I am arguing about that. Call it whatever you want. Forget I asked

Last edited by Replicant - on 09 May 2019

Replicant said:
DonFerrari said:

Best way to group a gen is by the games played. If most of the multiplat games Switch plays are the ones on X1 and PS4 it instead of PS5 XB4 then it would make more sense to put it on gen 8.

That makes sense but in that case wouldn't Wii U be a 7th gen console as the majority of its multiplat games were available on PS3 and Xbox 360?

If Switch 2 launches around the same time as PS5 and XB4 (or 1-2 years after), I'd tend to agree with you. But if Switch gets an incremental upgrade like PS4 Pro whose sales numbers are counted together with the base model, I think it makes sense to consider Switch as part of 9th gen as it competes with the 9th gen consoles.

But really, my point was more so based around the silliness of arguing whether Switch is 8th/9th gen and handheld/home/hybrid. I don't see why it matters.

Edit: Yet, here I am arguing about that. Call it whatever you want. Forget I asked

^ Thats what I was saying.

I dont consider the Wii U to be on the same gen as the PS4 or XB1.
To me Wii U was actually like 7.5 or something.

Nintendo is "out of sync" with the others, following a half step behinde (and at later dates).
Switch is gen 8.... but both PS4 + XB1, have 8.5 gens (PS4pro + XB1X)



Number of days to reach 50M from 40M : 198 days
Number of days to reach 60M from 50M : 187 days
Number of days to reach 70M from 60M : 175 days
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JRPGfan said:

^ Thats what I was saying.

I dont consider the Wii U to be on the same gen as the PS4 or XB1.
To me Wii U was actually like 7.5 or something.

Nintendo is "out of sync" with the others, following a half step behinde (and at later dates).
Switch is gen 8.... but both PS4 + XB1, have 8.5 gens (PS4pro + XB1X)

for some reason people want to label it as being ahead, dispite their console,
not being able to play most multiplats because it doesnt have the tech for it.


It doesnt make sense if you view the switch as a homeconsole.

I just think that introducing half (.5) gens is making things needlessly complicated?

I've always considered gens to be based on time and not power. Wii was a lot weaker than PS3 and Xbox 360 but I certainly still considered Wii to be part of 7th gen.



RolStoppable said:

2. Handhelds that launched at $300 and failed don't work as a way to argue that Switch is a handheld.

Inflation can't be a factor when all previous handhelds had to be priced below $200 to gain real traction. Switch is selling better at $300 than handhelds did at $200, plus the game prices went up significantly as well, from previously $40 to $60. A 33% increase in price in both areas from one generation to the next (or as you argue, within the same generation) can't be pinned down on inflation.

Just because they're failures in comparison to the Switch, won't make them any less of a handheld ... 

"Inflation can't be a factor when all previous handhelds had to be priced below $200 to gain real traction."

Not true at all. The PSP launched at $249 USD (which is valued at the time little bit more than what the Switch launched at today) and had a very real slice of the market share yet it'll end up selling more than the 3DS did in it's lifetime so consumers started accepting higher launch prices well before the Switch existed ... 

RolStoppable said:

3. You are using the same fallacy that you've used in previous years. You think that Switch and the 3DS are performing similarly, but as usual you ignore the context. Switch is outpacing the 3DS despite the latter having a significant price drop and a revision during the same timeframe. This fallacy has been explained to you in 2017, you didn't want to believe it, time proved you wrong. This fallacy has been explained to you in 2018, you still didn't want to believe it, time proved you wrong again. And given what the actual sales trajectory is, you will be proven wrong in 2019 again. It's utterly predictable.

So far as of FY19, the Switch shipped a total of 34.74M units while the 3DS in a comparable time frame shipped a total of 31.09M units in FY 2013 so I'm not convinced that you've got a "blue ocean" here even when assuming no customers from the previous competing platform (Vita) adopted it ... 

That's an 11% advantage in favour of the Switch for you if you got your math right so you got a problem with me calling their performance 'similar' ? 

RolStoppable said:

The Nomad isn't similar to Switch. Remember, when the topic of value proposition first came up, I said that Switch allows consumers to play home console games on the go while those games are still new; that's the differentiating factor of Switch. The Nomad and Turbo Express played games that were several years old and the market didn't care about that. You might as well say that the 3DS is similar to Switch because of Ocarina of Time 3D, but there's a huge difference between playing an old home console game on a portable console or being able to play Breath of the Wild that way from day 1. I am curious if you proceed to argue that Breath of the Wild can't be considered a home console game; if you are going to proceed to call the likes of Super Mario Odyssey, Splatoon 2 and Xenoblade Chronicles 2 handheld games.

The Nomad still had 'new' game releases as well so your logic fails regardless ... 

You STILL haven't addressed what the true differences are between handheld and home consoles games since I don't see ANY intrinsic differences in them so I couldn't care less if Super Mario, Splatoon 2, and Xenoblade Chronicles 2 where either handheld or home console games since they're all solely just games to me ... 

RolStoppable said:

It's ridiculously easy to determine whether Switch is a home console that can go portable or a handheld that connects to the TV. All one has to do is look at the console-defining games. Those titles have the scale of home console games and they play like what people have come to expect from home console games.

That's why it all comes down to one single question that you can answer with a 'yes' or 'no': Is Breath of the Wild a home console game?

@Bold All of this is just arbitrarily defined but I'm not surprised since you've been very evasive to commit to a hard definition. Here's another problem with your criteria so if people expect GTA V, COD series, RDR2, FIFA series (with current gen features), Fallout 4, SWBF series, Battlefield series, Destiny series, The Witcher 3, FFXV, MHW, Ubisoft's Tom Clancy series, Watch Dogs series, and the Far Cry series which are the MOST POPULAR titles (not counting exclusives) on the PS4 then what does it make of the Switch that DOESN'T have ANY of those games to those people ? (Switch will CONTINUE on missing out on the majority of games released on home consoles) 

Heck, even big Japanese 3rd party publishers like Bandai Namco, Capcom or Square Enix are trigger happy enough to not release their games on the Switch ... 

As to your last line, the answer is "I don't care" since you can't differentiate between the two. There are ONLY games RELEASED FOR either handhelds, home consoles, or both but neither "handheld games" or "home console games" have a meaningful definition ... (games aren't inherently tied to any specific system design) 

Do we call PS4 a handheld console as well since KH3D released on it ? 



fatslob-:O said:
RolStoppable said:

2. Handhelds that launched at $300 and failed don't work as a way to argue that Switch is a handheld.

Inflation can't be a factor when all previous handhelds had to be priced below $200 to gain real traction. Switch is selling better at $300 than handhelds did at $200, plus the game prices went up significantly as well, from previously $40 to $60. A 33% increase in price in both areas from one generation to the next (or as you argue, within the same generation) can't be pinned down on inflation.

Just because they're failures in comparison to the Switch, won't make them any less of a handheld ... 

"Inflation can't be a factor when all previous handhelds had to be priced below $200 to gain real traction."

Not true at all. The PSP launched at $249 USD (which is valued at the time little bit more than what the Switch launched at today) and had a very real slice of the market share yet it'll end up selling more than the 3DS did in it's lifetime so consumers started accepting higher launch prices well before the Switch existed ... 

RolStoppable said:

3. You are using the same fallacy that you've used in previous years. You think that Switch and the 3DS are performing similarly, but as usual you ignore the context. Switch is outpacing the 3DS despite the latter having a significant price drop and a revision during the same timeframe. This fallacy has been explained to you in 2017, you didn't want to believe it, time proved you wrong. This fallacy has been explained to you in 2018, you still didn't want to believe it, time proved you wrong again. And given what the actual sales trajectory is, you will be proven wrong in 2019 again. It's utterly predictable.

So far as of FY19, the Switch shipped a total of 34.74M units while the 3DS in a comparable time frame shipped a total of 31.09M units in FY 2013 so I'm not convinced that you've got a "blue ocean" here even when assuming no customers from the previous competing platform (Vita) adopted it ... 

That's an 11% advantage in favour of the Switch for you if you got your math right so you got a problem with me calling their performance 'similar' ? 

RolStoppable said:

The Nomad isn't similar to Switch. Remember, when the topic of value proposition first came up, I said that Switch allows consumers to play home console games on the go while those games are still new; that's the differentiating factor of Switch. The Nomad and Turbo Express played games that were several years old and the market didn't care about that. You might as well say that the 3DS is similar to Switch because of Ocarina of Time 3D, but there's a huge difference between playing an old home console game on a portable console or being able to play Breath of the Wild that way from day 1. I am curious if you proceed to argue that Breath of the Wild can't be considered a home console game; if you are going to proceed to call the likes of Super Mario Odyssey, Splatoon 2 and Xenoblade Chronicles 2 handheld games.

The Nomad still had 'new' game releases as well so your logic fails regardless ... 

You STILL haven't addressed what the true differences are between handheld and home consoles games since I don't see ANY intrinsic differences in them so I couldn't care less if Super Mario, Splatoon 2, and Xenoblade Chronicles 2 where either handheld or home console games since they're all solely just games to me ... 

RolStoppable said:

It's ridiculously easy to determine whether Switch is a home console that can go portable or a handheld that connects to the TV. All one has to do is look at the console-defining games. Those titles have the scale of home console games and they play like what people have come to expect from home console games.

That's why it all comes down to one single question that you can answer with a 'yes' or 'no': Is Breath of the Wild a home console game?

@Bold All of this is just arbitrarily defined but I'm not surprised since you've been very evasive to commit to a hard definition. Here's another problem with your criteria so if people expect GTA V, COD series, RDR2, FIFA series (with current gen features), Fallout 4, SWBF series, Battlefield series, Destiny series, The Witcher 3, FFXV, MHW, Ubisoft's Tom Clancy series, Watch Dogs series, and the Far Cry series which are the MOST POPULAR titles (not counting exclusives) on the PS4 then what does it make of the Switch that DOESN'T have ANY of those games to those people ? (Switch will CONTINUE on missing out on the majority of games released on home consoles) 

Heck, even big Japanese 3rd party publishers like Bandai Namco, Capcom or Square Enix are trigger happy enough to not release their games on the Switch ... 

As to your last line, the answer is "I don't care" since you can't differentiate between the two. There are ONLY games RELEASED FOR either handhelds, home consoles, or both but neither "handheld games" or "home console games" have a meaningful definition ... (games aren't inherently tied to any specific system design) 

Do we call PS4 a handheld console as well since KH3D released on it ? 

See, that's your problem. You cannot give an answer to a question that is incredibly simple to answer with either a 'yes' or a 'no'. But instead you engage in lots of deflection and say that games are just games for you in a discussion where you are hellbent to define Switch as a handheld console. So much irony.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV (360+PS3) would outsell SSBB. I was wrong.

A Biased Review Reloaded / Open Your Eyes / Switch Gamers Club

Replicant said:
DonFerrari said:

Best way to group a gen is by the games played. If most of the multiplat games Switch plays are the ones on X1 and PS4 it instead of PS5 XB4 then it would make more sense to put it on gen 8.

That makes sense but in that case wouldn't Wii U be a 7th gen console as the majority of its multiplat games were available on PS3 and Xbox 360?

DonFerrari said:

The problem is that not only did a gen have 2 devices from same corporation (happened as well on one of the arbitrary early gens like Atari) but also migrated/fused 2 gens.

For me it would make more sense to say Nintendo had 3 devices this gen, WiiU (console), 3DS (HH) and Switch (hybrid). Because so far Switch seems to be covering both markets for Nintendo.

If Switch 2 launches around the same time as PS5 and XB4 (or 1-2 years after), I'd tend to agree with you. But if Switch gets an incremental upgrade like PS4 Pro whose sales numbers are counted together with the base model, I think it makes sense to consider Switch as part of 9th gen as it competes with the 9th gen consoles.

But really, my point was more so based around the silliness of arguing whether Switch is 8th/9th gen and handheld/home/hybrid. I don't see why it matters.

Edit: Yet, here I am arguing about that. Call it whatever you want. Forget I asked

Well I don't remember many games being available for WiiU and PS360, but if they were you could put both on same gen sure, and their power would be much closer than WiiU to X1.

Yes if Switch receive a Pro that have back and forth compatibility with the baseline and receives the multiplats from PS5 and XB4 sure I can accept it being more of a 9th gen than 8th. 



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Replicant said:
DonFerrari said:

Best way to group a gen is by the games played. If most of the multiplat games Switch plays are the ones on X1 and PS4 it instead of PS5 XB4 then it would make more sense to put it on gen 8.

That makes sense but in that case wouldn't Wii U be a 7th gen console as the majority of its multiplat games were available on PS3 and Xbox 360?

If you defined generations by multiplats, then the DS and PSP wouldn't be in the same generation despite both of them launching in late 2004 and clearly competing with each other. There are more examples like that, so this method doesn't work because it immediately defies common sense.

Plus we would once again run into the Dreamcast that is considered gen 6 by everyone. The multiplats that the Dreamcast got were predominantly PS1 and N64 games.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV (360+PS3) would outsell SSBB. I was wrong.

A Biased Review Reloaded / Open Your Eyes / Switch Gamers Club