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Navi Made in Colab with sony, MS still Using it?

Forums - General Discussion - Navi Made in Colab with sony, MS still Using it?

Pricing of Xbox VS PS%

Xbox +$150 > PS5 0 0.00%
 
Xbox +$100 > PS5 5 16.67%
 
Xbox +$50> PS5 3 10.00%
 
PS5 = Xbox With slight performance bost 6 20.00%
 
PS5 = Xbox With no performance boos 2 6.67%
 
Xbox will not have the pe... 3 10.00%
 
Still to early, wait for MS PR 11 36.67%
 
Total:30
eva01beserk said:
@Vivster
Sonys involment, Thats something we canot know yet. You may as well be right. But as cerny made it sound they have been in more than that. Maybe nothing that would make it a game changer. But could be one or two extra fetures that the competitor might not be allowed to have.

They might have requested some hardware features not originally planned for the Navi chip, which could also explain why there's a 2 year gap since Vega came out until Navi's release. But I very much doubt it.

It's more that AMD didn't have the manpower to develop both CPU and GPU at full speed (which is a well documented fact), and concentrated on the new Zen CPU cores and chiplet designs instead of GCN GPU upgrades.



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eva01beserk said:
Maybe i should clarify. I in no way belive ps5 will be better than the next xbox. Nor will it have any fetures above it. I belive MS will make sure off that and in doing so the next xbox will be more expensive. How much more powerfull and how much more expensive is the questions.

How would MS do that? They can't really have a contract with AMD saying that whatever they purchase is better and have more features than what Sony have, because for AMD to assure that they would have to break their NDA with Sony.

Last gen we had the same "MS absolutely won't let PS4 be stronger than their console".



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eva01beserk said:
Random_Matt said:
Navi was a thing before even PS4, why people keep spouting BS I do not know. All Cerny does, as anyone would do in any comparable position was work with AMD to fit their needs.

Sure most likely. Im sure the version that sprouted from the sony colab is more suitable for console gaming maybe some extra feature that is beneficial for gaming only or something pc uses for other things that is unnecessary for gaming that was left out making it cheaper. Cant say that I know. But from the sound off things they have been at it for a while and yet no word or even rumors from MS if they had any special work done. 

Which is absolutely no different from the base Playstation 4 chip.
It was a PC design with a few extra enhancements like an increase in the ACE's.

The Playstation 4 chip is an AMD design through and through, but with some Sony collaboration on a few of the chips features. - Sony wasn't given some special fab-level/design level access to AMD's chip I.P.

DonFerrari said:
I would say some changes were made to base chip on the colaboration and perhaps those modifications are exclusive to Sony. Possibly MS will have other modifications exclusive to them. But in the end performance will be near.

This.
The Xbox One had a few changes over the base Graphics Core Next like support for Xbox 360 texture formats... (Which made backwards compatibility a little easier too!)

It's just Microsoft/Sony taking a base design and semi-customizing it to suit their individual needs.
AMD has multiple GPU teams building designs... And these designs take many many years, Navi likely started development even before the Playstation 4 was on the market.

John2290 said:
Is there a chance Xbox will go with Nvidia?

Not a chance in hell.

thismeintiel said:

If they do have some kind of deal, MS would have to use the Vega. 

AMD has a GPU design in the pipeline that is newer and better than Navi don't forget.

Bofferbrauer2 said:

They might have requested some hardware features not originally planned for the Navi chip, which could also explain why there's a 2 year gap since Vega came out until Navi's release. But I very much doubt it.

It's more that AMD didn't have the manpower to develop both CPU and GPU at full speed (which is a well documented fact), and concentrated on the new Zen CPU cores and chiplet designs instead of GCN GPU upgrades.

GPU development takes years... AMD loosing a ton of key technicians didn't help matters.
But before that we had the disruption of Fusion... AMD integrated it's GPU teams in with it's CPU teams and eventually reversed that, which means there would have been significant disruption for it's GPU development.

Vega has also been extremely problematic, it's large, expensive and slow, held back by Graphics Core Next's intrinsic limitations... And then we have the fab issue, we were stuck at 14nm for so long.

DonFerrari said:

How would MS do that? They can't really have a contract with AMD saying that whatever they purchase is better and have more features than what Sony have, because for AMD to assure that they would have to break their NDA with Sony.

Last gen we had the same "MS absolutely won't let PS4 be stronger than their console".

Pretty much. It's a guessing game. AMD cannot alienate either of it's customers in this aspect or risk loosing a customer.



@DonFerrari
They dont have to brake anything. Its as simple as eating some cost. Lets say everybody asumes sony will bring the ps5 at no more than $500. Ms could just deduce what $500 could bring to the table in a console form. Then they could just build sonething for $600 and then sell it for $500 at a lost. Sony might be doing something similar and eat like $50 loss. Ms dont know that so the jump might be minimal but still enough for them to sell it at the same price. Ms knows that they cant compete with sony so im sure they will sell at a lost the anaconda just so they can have the performance crown. As the real console they plan to mas market is the scarlett. The cheap x1x replacement.

Just speculations on my part. Nothing to do with what was just anounced.



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@Permalite
Any chance any of thouse customization could end up being diferent enough to clasify a chip diferently than the base?
Its what i heard in some other vid might be the guy i put in the op. But he said that the ps4 gpu was named navi 9 cuz it was to diferent from the pc variant.



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.

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eva01beserk said:
@Permalite
Any chance any of thouse customization could end up being diferent enough to clasify a chip diferently than the base?
Its what i heard in some other vid might be the guy i put in the op. But he said that the ps4 gpu was named navi 9 cuz it was to diferent from the pc variant.

Anyone who calls the PS4 GPU Navi 9 is someone who shouldn't be taken seriously.

Graphics Core Next is a highly modular design, so you can take one library/block/functional unit and alter it significantly to give say... The Shader pipelines new functionality. (Like Rapid Packed Math?) whilst leaving the rest of the design the same. It's still Graphics Core Next at the end of the day though.

I mean, even the Xbox 360 GPU was a significant deviation from Fudo as it adopted some features from Pele like Unified Shaders... But it was still Fudo derived rather than something we can lump in with the Terascale family.

Navi will be Navi. It will be a Polaris replacement... Not a Vega replacement and thus will be a mid-range part.
It will likely adopt a multitude of efficiency gains introduced with Vega and probably a few extra tricks on top of that so it can punch above it's peers in the Graphics Core Next family.





Pemalite said:
eva01beserk said:
@Permalite
Any chance any of thouse customization could end up being diferent enough to clasify a chip diferently than the base?
Its what i heard in some other vid might be the guy i put in the op. But he said that the ps4 gpu was named navi 9 cuz it was to diferent from the pc variant.

Anyone who calls the PS4 GPU Navi 9 is someone who shouldn't be taken seriously.

Graphics Core Next is a highly modular design, so you can take one library/block/functional unit and alter it significantly to give say... The Shader pipelines new functionality. (Like Rapid Packed Math?) whilst leaving the rest of the design the same. It's still Graphics Core Next at the end of the day though.

I mean, even the Xbox 360 GPU was a significant deviation from Fudo as it adopted some features from Pele like Unified Shaders... But it was still Fudo derived rather than something we can lump in with the Terascale family.

Navi will be Navi. It will be a Polaris replacement... Not a Vega replacement and thus will be a mid-range part.
It will likely adopt a multitude of efficiency gains introduced with Vega and probably a few extra tricks on top of that so it can punch above it's peers in the Graphics Core Next family.



My mistake.I meant ps5 gpu. 



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.

Oh how fun the rumor mill is leading to new gens of consoles, because even when the consoles are announced, then the spec wars begin, down to bus speeds and flops. Just sell me a working console that will deliver a great gaming experience.



 

eva01beserk said:
@Ironmanxd
What development of x1 your talking about? They where a year late and $100 more. That at launch is garbage.

They were a year late and $100 more expensive with the purpose just to have the more powerful system this generation. (interview with Phil Spencer confirming 2016 scorpio)

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/295830/QA_With_Scorpio_rising_Phil_Spencer_looks_to_the_future_of_Xbox.php

It's not likely they'd spend extra cash in R&D and sacrifice a year of sales for the lolz.

I expect the same mindset next generation. If I had to put money on a company having the more powerful system, it would be MS.

I'm still not convinced either way though. Simply too early to call.



ironmanDX said:
eva01beserk said:
@Ironmanxd
What development of x1 your talking about? They where a year late and $100 more. That at launch is garbage.

They were a year late and $100 more expensive with the purpose just to have the more powerful system this generation. (interview with Phil Spencer confirming 2016 scorpio)

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/295830/QA_With_Scorpio_rising_Phil_Spencer_looks_to_the_future_of_Xbox.php

It's not likely they'd spend extra cash in R&D and sacrifice a year of sales for the lolz.

I expect the same mindset next generation. If I had to put money on a company having the more powerful system, it would be MS.

I'm still not convinced either way though. Simply too early to call.

Are you saying they might launch later just to make sure they have best specs and not increase any cost?

That might be fine for a midgen upgrade, but for a new gen launch is just absurd. Sony could claw its way back from giving MS that lead, but theres no way in hell MS could with their lacking first party oferings and poor mindshare outside the US.



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.