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GoT season 8 final episode 6 tonight. (spoiler discussion) Fin. The end... for ever.

Forums - General Discussion - GoT season 8 final episode 6 tonight. (spoiler discussion) Fin. The end... for ever.

I'm...

Hyped. 24 55.81%
 
Mildly interested. 11 25.58%
 
Not bothered. 5 11.63%
 
/indifferent/not watched/other in comments. 3 6.98%
 
Total:43
Shaunodon said:

You're projecting your own image of what you want Dany to be. She's shown many hints that she could have the latent madness (keyword being 'latent' as it's described pretty clearly in the lore) of her family, and it's become more clear as the seasons have gone on and she's become more obssessed with the throne.
One of the biggest hints was actually given in the very first episode of the series: "He who passes the sentance should swing the sword." For all the times Dany has ordered her soldiers to behead, or her dragons to burn, has she ever actually passed out judgement herself? The last episode was the first time we even saw her holding a sword, when she was fighting for her life.
Don't forget that Aerys, 'The Mad King', actually had a very positive outlook in his first dozen years of ruling, before the 'latent' madness started to kick in.

The soft rule has always been, "Whenever a Targaryen is born, the Gods flip a coin..." The last four Targaryens to be born: Rhaegar, Viserys, Daenerys, and Jon (not including Rhaegar's other two kids who died as children). Viserys was clearly shown to be mad early on, which led people to believe Dany would be the good one. But Rhaegar was one of the most beloved Targaryens ever, and died a hero. And now we know that Jon is also a Targaryen, and he's one of the most noble and honest men alive. So where would that leave Daenerys in the equation?

Seems to be a common complaint amongst people who want to hate on the recent seasons, that Game of Thrones is a show which is supposed to subvert tropes and expectations, and yet it's generally the same people who complain when everything doesn't go the way they believed it was supposed to.

Dany has not done anything that Jon hasn't done in order to maintain respect. This "crazy" and "full of rage" Dany is a last minute insertion that could have worked out if it had been fleshed out as I said.

How good and kind and such a good ruler, as Dany was portrayed in the previous seasons, was the whole point why Tyrion and Varys came to her side. She was portrayed as the best option to rule Westeros and now in this last season they are shoving her away so that they can give it to Jon.

There should have been another season to flesh out Dany's madness, give some proper hints, make people talk, if they wanted it to go that way. This whole Dany is cray-cray stuff is rushed and another demonstration of bad writing.

I have defended this series up until the previous season in spite of the issues in previous seasons everyone admits, but in this season they dropped the ball.

Some people will defend anything.



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Just finished watching it and I knew it would be a bit of a slower one. I'm thinking they saved people from the battle of winterfell so they can kill more off in the final battle here. Two more episodes. I knew this season wouldn't act as a satisfying conclusion but I'm with it till then end now.



AbbathTheGrim said:
Shaunodon said:

You're projecting your own image of what you want Dany to be. She's shown many hints that she could have the latent madness (keyword being 'latent' as it's described pretty clearly in the lore) of her family, and it's become more clear as the seasons have gone on and she's become more obssessed with the throne.
One of the biggest hints was actually given in the very first episode of the series: "He who passes the sentance should swing the sword." For all the times Dany has ordered her soldiers to behead, or her dragons to burn, has she ever actually passed out judgement herself? The last episode was the first time we even saw her holding a sword, when she was fighting for her life.
Don't forget that Aerys, 'The Mad King', actually had a very positive outlook in his first dozen years of ruling, before the 'latent' madness started to kick in.

The soft rule has always been, "Whenever a Targaryen is born, the Gods flip a coin..." The last four Targaryens to be born: Rhaegar, Viserys, Daenerys, and Jon (not including Rhaegar's other two kids who died as children). Viserys was clearly shown to be mad early on, which led people to believe Dany would be the good one. But Rhaegar was one of the most beloved Targaryens ever, and died a hero. And now we know that Jon is also a Targaryen, and he's one of the most noble and honest men alive. So where would that leave Daenerys in the equation?

Seems to be a common complaint amongst people who want to hate on the recent seasons, that Game of Thrones is a show which is supposed to subvert tropes and expectations, and yet it's generally the same people who complain when everything doesn't go the way they believed it was supposed to.

Dany has not done anything that Jon hasn't done in order to maintain respect. This "crazy" and "full of rage" Dany is a last minute insertion that could have worked out if it had been fleshed out as I said.

How good and kind and such a good ruler, as Dany was portrayed in the previous seasons, was the whole point why Tyrion and Varys came to her side. She was portrayed as the best option to rule Westeros and now in this last season they are shoving her away so that they can give it to Jon.

There should have been another season to flesh out Dany's madness, give some proper hints, make people talk, if they wanted it to go that way. This whole Dany is cray-cray stuff is rushed and another demonstration of bad writing.

I have defended this series up until the previous season in spite of the issues in previous seasons everyone admits, but in this season they dropped the ball.

Some people will defend anything.

I'm not going to go back and fourth with you pointing out everything you've missed, when this season has already made several references and comparisons to past events.

It's your choice if you don't want to pay attention, or you just block out everything that doesn't follow the narrative you want, and don't want to actually go through the past episodes and lore to check if any your beliefs hold water. But immediately attributing that to bad writing is just sad.



AbbathTheGrim said:

Dany has not done anything that Jon hasn't done in order to maintain respect. This "crazy" and "full of rage" Dany is a last minute insertion that could have worked out if it had been fleshed out as I said.

How good and kind and such a good ruler, as Dany was portrayed in the previous seasons, was the whole point why Tyrion and Varys came to her side. She was portrayed as the best option to rule Westeros and now in this last season they are shoving her away so that they can give it to Jon.

There should have been another season to flesh out Dany's madness, give some proper hints, make people talk, if they wanted it to go that way. This whole Dany is cray-cray stuff is rushed and another demonstration of bad writing.

I have defended this series up until the previous season in spite of the issues in previous seasons everyone admits, but in this season they dropped the ball.

Some people will defend anything.

Did I miss where Daenerys did anything crazy or full of rage this season?  Last season's burning of the Tarlys sure, but this season?  Nothing really.  She didn't rage at Jon, she watched her "child" murdered and then turned away from the hopeless battle to helplessly watch her ships destroyed, King's Landing is still standing next episode when Jon arrives, so she obviously didn't fly into a rage and order the city sacked at once.

Most of the evidence of Daenerys being out of control comes from Varys's musings.

We're still in assumed heel turn territory.  I kinda think the internet may be running in the wrong direction (shocking, I know!).  This might be Varys's downfall.  We're used to thinking of Varys as the one altruistic character on the show, but his actions here betray something else.  We got a callback this episode to episode 7x2 where Varys said he swore to look Daenerys in the eyes if he ever disagreed with her.  Well, that's only half the story.  The full oath she extracted from Varys was this:

"If you ever think I'm failing the people, you won't conspire behind my back.  You'll look me in the eye as you have done today, and you'll tell me how I'm failing them."

The reason that Daenerys demanded the loyalty half of the oath is simple: Varys has a habit of conspiring against kings because he thinks he knows what's best.  He'd backed and then undercut her father and Robert.  He'd tried to put Viserys on the throne despite knowing how poor a king he'd be.  Not to mention the Aegon shenanigans in the books.

In order for Daenerys to take him into her confidence, she needed him to understand that this would be it.  He was now an adviser, not the secret master pulling the strings.  He needed to trust her.

Well, Varys has definitively broken that oath and his life is now forfeit.  By all rights, he should soon be burned alive as Daenerys promised.

But let's take one more look at one of the reasons that people think Daenerys is out of control: Her conversation with Jon.  In it, she practically begs him not to tell anyone.  We're meant to think that perhaps she's being paranoid, but she's not.  She was completely correct.  As soon as Varys learned of Jon's heritage, he began conspiring against her.  Jon's actions have sown intrigue within Daenerys's highest circles, a headache she doesn't need right now.  At best, it's going to cost her a valuable ally and make her look like a mad woman for executing her advisers.

It's part of why Jon simply would make a bad king.  He's got too much Ned in him to play the game properly and he doesn't want it anyway.  He trusts Sansa's honor, who is now more Littlefinger than Ned, and is pretty much immediately betrayed.  He would be led around by his advisers.  Obviously, Varys would like that, but it wouldn't be necessarily good for the kingdom to have a puppet on the throne.

Daenerys is still shown as something of a mix.  She did go up to the north to defend the realm.  She did follow Tyrion's disastrous plans last season to take King's Landing with minimal bloodshed.  She bloody tried to get along with Sansa.  But she also demands that throne.

Anyway, that's my take on things for the moment.  I basically think the internet is getting out over its skis.  Though I could be wrong.

Last edited by NightlyPoe - on 06 May 2019

NightlyPoe said:
AbbathTheGrim said:

Dany has not done anything that Jon hasn't done in order to maintain respect. This "crazy" and "full of rage" Dany is a last minute insertion that could have worked out if it had been fleshed out as I said.

How good and kind and such a good ruler, as Dany was portrayed in the previous seasons, was the whole point why Tyrion and Varys came to her side. She was portrayed as the best option to rule Westeros and now in this last season they are shoving her away so that they can give it to Jon.

There should have been another season to flesh out Dany's madness, give some proper hints, make people talk, if they wanted it to go that way. This whole Dany is cray-cray stuff is rushed and another demonstration of bad writing.

I have defended this series up until the previous season in spite of the issues in previous seasons everyone admits, but in this season they dropped the ball.

Some people will defend anything.

Did I miss where Daenerys did anything crazy or full of rage this season?  Last season's burning of the Tarly's sure, but this season?  Nothing really.  She didn't rage at Jon, she watched her "child" murdered and then turned away from the hopeless battle to helplessly watch her ships destroyed, King's Landing is still standing next episode when Jon arrives, so she obviously didn't fly into a rage and order the city sacked at once.

Most of the evidence of Daenerys being out of control comes from Varys's musings.

We're still in assumed heel turn territory.  I kinda think the internet may be running in the wrong direction (shocking, I know!).  This might be Varys's downfall.  We're used to thinking of Varys as the one altruistic character on the show, but his actions here betray something else.  We got a callback this episode to episode 7x2 where Varys said he swore to look Daenerys in the eyes if he ever disagreed with her.  Well, that's only half the story.  The full oath she extracted from Varys was this:

"If you ever think I'm failing the people, you won't conspire behind my back.  You'll look me in the eye as you have done today, and you'll tell me how I'm failing them."

The reason that Daenerys demanded that oath is simple.  Varys has a habit of conspiring against kings because he thinks he knows what's best.  He'd backed and then undercut her father and Robert.  He'd tried to put Viserys on the throne despite knowing how poor a king he'd be.  Not to mention the Aegon shenanigans in the books.

In order for Daenerys to take him into her confidence, she needed him to understand that this would be it.  He was now an adviser, not the secret master pulling the strings.  He needed to trust her.

Well, Varys has definitively broken that oath and his life is now forfeit.  By all rights, he should soon be burned alive as Daenerys promised.

But let's take one more look at one of the reasons that people think Daenerys is out of control: Her conversation with Jon.  In it, she practically begs him not to tell anyone.  We're meant to think that perhaps she's being paranoid, but she's not.  She was completely correct.  As soon as Varys learned of Jon's heritage, he began conspiring against her.  Jon's actions have sown intrigue within Daenerys's highest circles, a headache she doesn't need right now.  At best, it's going to cost her a valuable ally and make her look like a mad woman for executing her advisers.

It's part of why Jon simply would make a bad king.  He's got too much Ned in him to play the game properly and he doesn't want it anyway.  He trusts Sansa's honor, who is now more Littlefinger than Ned, and is pretty much immediately betrayed.  He would be led around by his advisers.  Obviously, Varys would like that, but it wouldn't be necessarily good for the kingdom to have a puppet on the throne.

Daenerys is still shown as something of a mix.  She did go up to the north to defend the realm.  She did follow Tyrion's disastrous plans last season to take King's Landing with minimal bloodshed.  She bloody tried to get along with Sansa.  But she also demands that throne.

Anyway, that's my take on things for the moment.  I basically think the internet is getting out over its skis.  Though I could be wrong.

I mean you literally have Varys, Tyrion, and Sansa, the three clear-cut smartest people on the show all agreeing Dany has lost her marbles, and a whole 80 minute episode clearly seeing her act like a psycho, and you still think otherwise? The only reason they began conspiring against her is because they've all seen how unstable she is. She was begging Jon to keep his silence because she saw how everyone naturally gravitates towards him, and she felt threatened about losing what she believes is hers, even though she can tell by now he's clearly a better leader, as well as the true heir.

And your spiel about Jon 'can't play the game' makes no sense. When has he been lead around by Sansa or anyone else? Sansa has made a point of expressing her frustration that he never listens to her and just does what he wants. If he did always do as she said, he wouldn't have gone to Dragonstone last season and they'd all be dead. But he also acknowledges her opinions on several matters, is always open to her, and trusts her with the safekeeping of the North.
The reason Jon is being so obedient to Dany is because of love, but mostly because he's honour-bound to her after bending the knee. And he only did that after Dany risked her life for him last season while losing a dragon, which she only did because she loves him.



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Dany has lost the most part of her army, two children/dragons, Jorah and now Missandei. The most positive thing that has happened to her since landing in Westeros was Jon and now even that relationship has turned sour a bit.
By now I have complete understanding for her "Fuck this, I am going to burn this shit into the ground" attitude. And I also would not have a problem with Dany conquering Westeros as "Mad Queen". I would like to see a "lesser of two evil" ending.

Jon on the throne would be god damn boring to me. The show has often made a point how honorable man are steering into their doom and Jon himself ran into multiple of those situations and would also be dead if it wasn't for magic.

Last edited by Marth - on 06 May 2019

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I was a bit mixed on the latest episode. Not going to share thoughts at length - but there is one thing people could help me with. I've seen a few comments that this latest episode proves season 8 leaks were on the ball. Anyone idea where or when these leaks happened? I know pretty much all of season 7 leaked before hand through scripts.



Jon sends his wolf away like thrash, defends the woman he loves less than his father did to Robert's face. Also, scorpion bolts are stronger than cannon balls, judging from the damage to Dany's ships (not to mention the accuracy, and the fact Qiburn's silly idea of very large crossbows was somehow implemented on a industral scale in a few weeks). What a shit show at this point.

Also, I don't buy Varys, the spymaster, the man who served Aerys and Robert loyally, who knew to bid his time as a Targ loyalist, openly talking treason... with the hand of the queen! Come on.

Last edited by haxxiy - on 06 May 2019

 

 

 

 

 

Asriel said:
I was a bit mixed on the latest episode. Not going to share thoughts at length - but there is one thing people could help me with. I've seen a few comments that this latest episode proves season 8 leaks were on the ball. Anyone idea where or when these leaks happened? I know pretty much all of season 7 leaked before hand through scripts.

The Freefolk subreddit, occasionally through 4Chan or Frikidoctor's YouTube (though he no longer does spoilers after HBO threatened a lawsuit, apparently).

TL, DR: there are three solid leaks at this point, which somewhat diverge among themselves. But apparently the three following are more or less confirmed or are more relevant:

Spoiler!

- A scene was filmed where Tyrion bails Jaime out of jail

- A scene was filmed where Arya and the Hound are pressed against the gates as people rush to take shelter (in the Red Keep?)

- Grey Worm and Dany + Drogon will go full Gengis Khan in King's Landing and the Red Keep specifically. Rumored to be fairly one-sided

- Two have Jon killing Dany, but Frikidoctor and an older full-season leak claim she lives

- Cersei and Jaime die together, Drogon does it, specifics unclear



 

 

 

 

 

After seeing last episode the only things that come to my mind are "undercooked","lazyness" and "stupid". This season feels like too big and too small at the same time....