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Forums - General Discussion - GoT season 8 final episode 6 tonight. (spoiler discussion) Fin. The end... for ever. D&D can burn in the seven hells.

 

I'm...

Hyped. 24 55.81%
 
Mildly interested. 11 25.58%
 
Not bothered. 5 11.63%
 
/indifferent/not watched/other in comments. 3 6.98%
 
Total:43
John2290 said:
Faelco said:

But Young Griff is Aegon though. So who is "fake Aegon" in haxxiy's comment? Young Griff? 

So far, "fake Aegon" is the show's Jon, because they decided that it was too complex to add another important character and just gave his name to Jon...

I can't remember the specifics of why he is a false heir or mqybe he isn't as I remember he was snuck out of dragonstone the night of Danys birth by Jon conington, perhaps that fat guy in Essos has a plot to use him though he knows is not a true heir I can't quite remember so don't qoute me but Young Griff is Aegon before he was revealed to be Reahgars child with Elia Martell, not Lyanna Stark. R+L=J has not yet been legitimized in the books so that is still on the table and Young Griff/Aegon does not invalidate it as a possibility. Tbh, I'm really muddled on the plots lines of the books and the show as they seem to have merged in my memory, I'm currntly reading book 1 again to rectify that. 

Yeah, for me Rhaegar had 2 kids, Aegon with Elia Martell and Jon with Lyanna Stark. We don't know Jon's real name yet because it's not official, but heavily hinted.

In the show, they decided that having the 2 kids was too hard to explain to the viewers, so they merged both into Jon, making him Aegon.

But we can have 3 Targaryens the 3 dragons in the books, I hope it will happen... 



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Faelco said:
John2290 said:

Young Griff that was snuck out of Essos with Jon conington. I can understand why you forgot as it is the most boring story line of the entire series, last time I read them I just skipped it. 

But Young Griff is Aegon though. So who is "fake Aegon" in haxxiy's comment? Young Griff? 

So far, "fake Aegon" is the show's Jon, because they decided that it was too complex to add another important character and just gave his name to Jon...

Young Griff is 99% a fake Aegon. He's the Perkin Warbeck of the ASOIAF series. Even without the War of the Roses parallels, there's plenty of evidence in the books, such as Daenerys' dreams etc. and the fact he was cut from the show.

Now, it's still to be known if show Cersei is actually standing for the fake Aegon (as the Gold Company contract would suggest). In the books people are bringing Daenerys the news about him. And Dany's dreams strongly suggest the two will meet, and she will be the one to oust him.

Jon is very likely Rhaegar's other son, so I don't think the show is merging into him any parts of the Young Griff character.

Edit - all of this aside, a fun note: I was doing a quick reread of some parts of the books and remembered Dany has sex with her maidservants, and so does Cersei with her handmaiden. And Sweetrobin tries to suck on Sansa's breasts. George, you naughty boy! All of this should have been in the show.

Last edited by haxxiy - on 09 May 2019

 

 

 

 

 

John2290 said:
I just realized that continuing to watch this show after Jon was stabbed was the worst mistake I have ever made in any story I have ever gotten invested in. Jon should be dead in Castle black where he belongs until George continues and everything else should be struck from the record. I wish we had some Total recall style tech so I could remove the memories of the show after season 5.

Funny cause Jon is the only reason I'm still watching the show lol. Glad he got resurrected.



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I want to like it and i do my best to try to like this new season but such dumb dumb writing,Arya was one of my favorites and now im just annoyed when she's on screen.

There are also a lot of interactions between the characters that try play out like fanfiction or fanservice while losing the identity of the previous seasons,salty me. :(

Edit: It's still a good show but not up to it's own standards.



I think everyone had unrealistic fan theories built up for the past 23 years and now that everyone isn't getting what they want, they decided to crap all over it on the internet. The writers did an excellent job adapting the first 3 books which are the best books by far. GRM released the first 3 books in a 4 year span, there is no way that HBO and D&D could have realized GRM wouldn't release one book after July 2011. Had we at least gotten out "The Winds of Winter "a few years ago I think the final few season would have been more fleshed out. As it is, the show is still entertaining. It's a tv show not a major Hollywood movie, we need to stop thinking its going to be the quality it was, and enjoy the show for what it has become. Everyone complaining about the "Long Night", needs to treat it more like a Rock movie or a Michael Bay movie where there are mistakes in there but its still a fun entertaining ride. Are people really just sitting there watching a favorite character dying protecting a loved character, or dying taking down a Giant just sitting there yawning? It's become the "it" thing to just complain about a show that was so much better than any show that came before it that now that it may have dropped down several pegs is still better than most TV shows that have come before it. It's funny all I see is complaints about the show here, on Reddit,Twitter, Youtube etc, but anyone I talk to at work, my running groups, softball, friends, family etc all still love the show, its only the internet people that want to complain about every little detail about it.



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shikamaru317 said:

I personally have no issues whatsoever with Arya being the one to kill the Night King. People are acting like it came out of nowhere, but there have been teases and hints about it for years. The most prominent hint was when Bran, who could see possible futures in his Greensight visions, gave Arya the valyrian steel knife that Littlefinger gave to him because he presumably saw a potential future where Arya saved him from the Night King with that very knife. Then we have what Melissandre told Arya many seasons ago about the many people she would kill, including people with Blue Eyes (the Night King). I've seen people calling Arya a Mary Sue, and she just isn't. Unlike Rey in the new Star Wars movies, who is a prime example of a Mary Sue, Arya is a character that is actually well developed. She has considerable character growth (she's nothing like she was in season 1), she's known loss, she has known the feeling of feeling helpless, and she had actual training to acquire the formidable combat abilities that she now possesses, training under the First Sword of Braavos in season 1, and later with Waif for many months, training while blind to increase her other senses to superhuman levels.

My issue with this is that the Night King is basically outside of Arya's storyline and hasn't really played a role in her arc. For her to basically pop in out of nowhere into this other storyline and be the one who settled it feels out of place. The Night King should have been dealt with by the individuals who were involved with the Night King's storyline. If they had taken more time to develop this plotline after its integration to the larger plot, they may have been able to get away with it, but as is, it feels like Gandalf just popping into Star Wars Episode 9 to resolve the key conflict. I love Gandalf as a character and he has been developed to have the necessary power, but that just isn't his story.

And that is without getting into all the issues with that scene, some of which you've already mentioned.



shikamaru317 said:

I also see Danaerys fans are angry that she is increasingly being turned into a villain. Have you guys gone back and watched the earlier seasons? I have had severe doubts about Dany ever since season 1. A good ruler needs to show mercy at times, and the concept of mercy has been alien to her throughout the series. She allowed her husband to pour molten metal on her brothers head and burned the witch alive in season 1, locked her friend and the merchant guy in the vault to die in season 2, crucified people, burned the Dothraki leaders alive, wanted to raze King's Landing with her dragons (but was talked out of it by her advisers), executed Sam's father and brother when they refused to bend the knee (against objections from Tyrion). I honestly think there is too much of her father, the Mad King, in her to ever be a good ruler. Jon Snow has always been the only person in the whole show fit to rule in the end, because he is the only one who doesn't want to rule and has shown mercy at several points during the show.

Fun trivia. In the fifth book, the Sons of Harpies raped, tortured and killed some of the people Daenerys freed from slavery. Yet, Daenery refrained from harming the noble children she held as hostage, for which she is commended for answering butchery with mercy. In the same dialogue, Daenerys says she's no butcher queen, and would not harm them for murders that were not their doing. Jon Snow, in the same book, executes Janos Slynt for slighting him as commander of the Night's Watch. Janos calls for mercy, but Jon thinks in turn "this door has long been closed". A few chapters later, he watches unblinkingly as Rattleshirt is burned by Stannis and Melissanre in a fire, and he repeatedly calls for mercy from the flames.

Early on the first book, Ned Stark says it was the "madness of mercy" that prompted him to tell Cersei he knew her secret and offer her the chance of escaping, when questioned by Varys as he is imprisoned. So I'm not sure which message we're supposed to take from all of that. Given GRRM loves foreshadowing and all of that, and has openly criticized unexpected twists and plots who lack a logical foundation on preceeding events.

Another fun trivia I've just found: in the same book Tyrion muses that unless one of these long iron scorpion bolts chanced to find an eye, Daenery's dragons would not be brought down by such "toys". And "tickling" dragons with these would only make them angry, and trying would be as useless as to try to quench flames with a spear.

Last edited by haxxiy - on 12 May 2019

 

 

 

 

 

shikamaru317 said:
haxxiy said:

Sounds like a decision by the showrunners then, to portray Daenerys increasingly darker throughout the series, while they chose to portray Jon Snow as the good guy choice to rule in the end. I can see why that would make fans of the books angry, but I've never read the books, so all I have to go on is the show. And speaking solely from a show watchers perspective, I have definitely favored Jon since the start of the show, because with the exception of the hanging of the people that stabbed him to death, he was always shown to be merciful, the good guy of the series just like his uncle Ned Stark. Dany always seemed to have a hint of her fathers madness lying just beneath the surface, to me at least. You can see it in both her mannerisms and in her decisions. It was abundantly obvious to me, as someone who binge-watched the entire show for the first time over the last month. 

By GRRM's own admission, he started to tell the showrunners future plot points of the series, not covered by the books, around 2013 - 2014, after at least three or four TV seasons or so were filmed. Now, we don't know whether that early talk includes the ending or that was revealed in later conversations. But it already rules out the suggestion there's something more sinister hidden on her mannerisms and decisions in earlier seasons.

Not to mention we now know all the health issues Emilia Clarke was facing as she filmed the TV show, so all this talk about strange twiches etc. on her character just get a much more sad and mean connotation.

Edit: GRRM might have some portion of blame. He's a "gardener" who tries to evolve his characters and plots organically. It takes a lot of time to do but doesn't incur the risk of making characters seem automatons guiding the plot to a certain conclusion. But as the show caught up with his books, he might have found himself having to share future plot points he conceived years or decades ago, before his own storytelling pulled him on another direction. Now it remains to be seen how he'll write those books, since I don't think he has the luxury of scraping plot points that won't work, now that they're effectively pinned by the TV show. I mean, he has, but likely wouldn't do it.

Last edited by haxxiy - on 12 May 2019

 

 

 

 

 

New episode about to start very soon and I have 0 hype. :(



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rapsuperstar31 said:
I think everyone had unrealistic fan theories built up for the past 23 years and now that everyone isn't getting what they want, they decided to crap all over it on the internet. The writers did an excellent job adapting the first 3 books which are the best books by far. GRM released the first 3 books in a 4 year span, there is no way that HBO and D&D could have realized GRM wouldn't release one book after July 2011. Had we at least gotten out "The Winds of Winter "a few years ago I think the final few season would have been more fleshed out. As it is, the show is still entertaining. It's a tv show not a major Hollywood movie, we need to stop thinking its going to be the quality it was, and enjoy the show for what it has become. Everyone complaining about the "Long Night", needs to treat it more like a Rock movie or a Michael Bay movie where there are mistakes in there but its still a fun entertaining ride. Are people really just sitting there watching a favorite character dying protecting a loved character, or dying taking down a Giant just sitting there yawning? It's become the "it" thing to just complain about a show that was so much better than any show that came before it that now that it may have dropped down several pegs is still better than most TV shows that have come before it. It's funny all I see is complaints about the show here, on Reddit,Twitter, Youtube etc, but anyone I talk to at work, my running groups, softball, friends, family etc all still love the show, its only the internet people that want to complain about every little detail about it.

I'm sorry but did you really say we should treat GoT like The Rock or Michael Bay movies?

People arent complaining because it's the "it" thing to do, it's because the writers have abandoned what made it such a great show and caused it to have a massive drop in quality.

Also there is nothing that suggest the show would be more fleshed out if Winds of Winter was out since they cut like 75% of Feast of Crows/Dance with Dragons. You cant blame lack of source material when they already abandoned the source material way before they ran out.

@bold, that's exactly why longtime fans dont like it anymore, it's become a show that caters to casual audiences who only care about spectacle.

Logic and consequences no longer matter as long as it looks cool.



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