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"Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker" Trailer

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dharh said:

1) I think people misjudge Luke's personality quite a bit in Eps IV-VI and VIII.  IV-VI Luke is incredibly naive.  Even in VI.  In The Return of the Jedi Anakin is still driven by the same thing that turned him to the Dark Side in the first place.  To control chaos, to control the galaxy against those things he perceives as injustice, by force if necessary.  Only with his son joining him would he be able to do what he wanted to accomplish, only with the imminent death of his son does he finally realize the folly, the futile nature of his goal, especially at that point.

That naivety carries Luke into his actions with his nephew.  He has the vision of his nephews corruption and thus makes his hesitant decision, only to realize that that decision itself is what fulfilled the vision in the first place.  A not uncommon theme.

I think is actions in VIII are fully within character. Nor do I see an issue with a map, pieced together from clues by people trying to find him on both sides.

2) Wracked with the guilt of his own failure he makes yet another naive decision that Jedi and their actions, his actions, will come to ruin.  He shuts himself away in a remote place.  VIII actually has a recurring theme that Luke incorrectly caries over from ep V.  He will only make things worse if he interferes.  In V he finds out about his father, he loses a hand, Han is trapped in carbonite, Leia is now slave to Jabba, etc.  Finally at the last he decides to intervene and face the decision he made against his Nephew.

3) I highly doubt Luke gets revived in any sense.  Force ghost sure, there is plenty of precedence for that.  There is also plenty of potential lore to account for some influence of Palpatine to rear its head in IX.

1.) Luke was told that his father was gone, and that there is only Vader now. But he sensed good in him beneath all the darkness, so he willingly let himself get captured, knowing full well he'd be putting himself in a dangerous situation, in order to try to plea to the Anakin he knew was in there somewhere.
And according to his father's own words; "You were right. You were right about me... Tell your sister... you were right..."

Not sure if that's naive, but I don't think it mirrors his actions in TLJ either way.

With Darth Vader, who was mostly evil at that point and had committed many atrocities, Luke chose to try to save him as his first resort, even if it meant putting himself in danger.
With Ben, who was mostly good at that point, Luke's first choice (even if it was only for a moment) was to slaughter his sleeping nephew. 

So that's why I don't think it's within Luke's character.
And if he had changed into such a person over the past several decades, they didn't develop him in such a way where this would be believable imo.

2.) It wasn't the map itself that was the problem. The trope of the most powerful character in the series staying away only works if it actually makes sense for them to stay away. Aside from that fact that people tend to learn from past mistakes, it did not make sense for him to think that it would be better for everyone if he left them to fend for themselves against someone as powerful as Snoke. Even less after he recruited a Sith. And especially after Han got killed and Leia and the resistance were pleading with him to help, risking their lives to find him.

I thought that was a ridiculous storyline, and Luke running from his responsibilities, whether it be the Kylo he helped to create, or saving the galaxy when he was (presumably) the only one who could at that point, was yet another disappointing personality trait of his that Rian Johnson came up with.

Even Mark Hammil has expressed his disappointment and confusion about this new version of his character, and when asked why Luke gave up, he said "When I understand, I'll let you know."
He also added “He’s Not My Luke”.
"Even if he had a problem, he would maybe take a year to try and regroup. But if he made a mistake, he would try and right that wrong. So right there we had a fundamental difference."

And that's essentially the issue people have here.
If you not only enjoyed those things, but still considered him the same Luke as before, then that's great. I really wish I could, but I can't.

3.) Yeah, I don't expect Luke to get revived. I suppose they could come up with some story about how he faked his death because he knew Palpatine was watching, and waiting for him to disappear or something. But since Yoda demonstrated that force ghosts can interact with reality, I'm expecting to see something like that from Luke. Not sure about Palpatine considering he had an interest in things of that nature, and his master knew how to cheat death.
It could also be that his involvement in IX is very indirect, but I hope he makes an actual appearance somehow.

Last edited by Hiku - on 13 April 2019

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thismeintiel said:

The sad thing is that Snoke actually could have been a good villian.  Especially if they went the Darth Plagueis route, who was already said to have been able to influence life and save others from death with his power.  Instead, he became a big joke.  At one point he's made out to be one of the most powerful Sith, then the next he's cut in half with the most juvenile trick.

I'd take the "Snoke is actually Jar Jar Binks" theory over what happened.

thismeintiel said:
I'd say her being a Mary Sue is a HUGE issue for many, as the character we are supposed to be following and rooting for has no true arc or real flaws. It's just a bland character that is hard to get invested in. It doesn't help that it destroys the Force and Jedi mythos just as much as midichlorians did in TPM.  Here's an individual who was born with all this power, yet somehow never showed any signs of it until halfway through the first film AND, by far the worst part, becomes the most powerful Jedi without earning it through any training whatsoever.  I just don't understand how modern day writers, who are supposed to be these feminist allies, write such horribly bland female characters.  It's as if they think it makes them a stronger character just by having her be handed her powers/skills because she is better than any man who had to earn them.

Well I think it's fair to say that Luke is a bigger issue to many because of the huge legacy that character carries.
But as for Rey, as boring as I think those type of characters are, some stories have those naturally super talented people that get a lot of things handed to them.
(Anakin was a master pod racer at the age of 9) And they can explain those things in various ways. For example, in one series I'm following it was explained (several years after the series started) that these certain super talented characters subconsciously have access to all the combat experience of the generations that came before them.
And this type of writing is not unique to female characters by the way.

But that's the thing about Rey. She has at least one, if not more, movies left to potentially redeem herself. And for things to get explained that we didn't think would get an explanation. Rian Johnson seemingly wanted her parents to be no one special, but perhaps Abrams will have her be part of some special lineage after all. And maybe she'll have access to all the Skywalker's combat experience, similar to my example from a different series. Or maybe she had training, but lost her memory. Etc.
But Snoke? He might not get another chance to redeem himself. Holdo won't.

And Warp Drive seemingly doesn't go into another dimension, but just crashes through and destroys everything in its path, so I guess they could have just used that to destroy the Death Star in the first films.
Rose could somehow circle around Finn and slam into him even though he went at top speed. And then no one tried to shoot at them when they were running all the way back. And she stopped him from saving the day through sacrificing himself.
Great message... Except 5 minutes later, Luke sacrifices himself to save the day.
So it's ok for old people to do it? I'm not sure I understand.

Just some things that already crashed and burned, without a chance for redemption. Probably.

thismeintiel said:
As to the problem with Luke you pointed out, I don't mind if he had come into the tent with his lightsaber drawn, but it should have been because he felt a threat coming from within.  He goes in and finds only his nephew, who misunderstands the situation, and attacks Luke.  Now, what I can't buy whatsoever is Luke just giving up on his nephew, sister, and friends, just to go die on an island.  Not when he could sense the good in his father and did everything to bring him back.  And definitely not when it was his screw up that lead to the situation at hand.  It did just completely ruin Luke's character.  Which they may continue to do if they make Rey his daughter, like some have theorized because of the new film's title.

I don't know about the last point, though.  Leia is in the new film it seems.  Maybe its only for a short scene.  Though, they may end up using the face replacement they used in Rogue One.

Yeah, considering the lengths Luke went through to try to save Anakin, who was far more evil than Ben was at that point, I would have been ok with that scene if it was a misunderstanding. I don't buy that he considered butchering his sleeping nephew as his first choice. Even if it was for a moment.
And I agree on the giving up issue as well. He ran from his responsibilities for years, and left everyone to fend for themselves against someone as powerful as Snoke. I'm not sure how he thought he could have made things worse when Han got killed and Leia's resistance were at the brink of destruction.

The last point was referring to something like the idea that maybe Leia was originally supposed to fight some powerful enemy in Episode IX.
But they said they won't CGI her face, out of respect for Keri Fisher. The scene we see in the trailer may have been pre-recorded before her death.

Last edited by Hiku - on 13 April 2019

Looks solid.

Can’t wait to see SW fanboys continue to rage because there’s too many strong gurls in the films.



thismeintiel said:
AbbathTheGrim said:

You could say that bringing the Emperor is a good idea to end the Skywalker saga, but I also take it like an acknowledgement that they completely dropped the ball with the mediocre "villains" in those two movies.

The sad thing is that Snoke actually could have been a good villian.  Especially if they went the Darth Plagueis route, who was already said to have been able to influence life and save others from death with his power.  Instead, he became a big joke.  At one point he's made out to be one of the most powerful Sith, then the next he's cut in half with the most juvenile trick.

Definitely, I completely agree. I remember that some people argued the song used for Snoke during his first hologram appearance was the same used when Palpatine talked about him to Anakin in that coliseum performance thing in The Revenge of the Sith.

Johnson decided that it was more important "trying" to surprise people with Snoke's death than to keep a threatening and dangerous and the main antagonistic figure in the trilogy.

I have to admit, Snoke's death surprised me. But it did surprise me because even though you see the lightsaber moving and know that Kylo is going to try something, I expected a fight or simply an "attempt" against Snoke, I couldn't conceive the idea that they would leave this trilogy completely void of a proper villain but yeah, they went there...

HOWEVER! lol Let us not forget something: Palpatine gave Plagueis the Wise for dead. If the idea was to make Snoke be Plagueis, that means that Plagueis survived an assassination attempt or was capable of a resurrection after Palpatine killed him. So if they choose to resume the idea of Snoke being Plagueis in spite of Episode 8, then they can revive Snoke for episode IX with the same argument of why he was alive, as Snoke, in Episode 7 and how he is capable of creating life and "keep people from dying" which of course Palpatine said Plagueis couldn't do to keep himself from dying but maybe he actually got to do it somehow.

The only problem with the idea above though is that Johnson made Snoke's death very caricature-like, almost funny, and he made him look very dead in the shots of his dead body. So reviving him again and showing how he came back to life may look very forced and possibly jarring.

Ka-pi96 said:

That name though, wow is that a shit name! Skywalker has already risen! Twice in fact with both Anakin and Luke. That title makes it sound like a prequel or something

You know, now that I think about it the name of the movie is indeed shitty, but being a hopeless optimist I kind of expect that name to have a nice explanation to it, even though up to this point and due to the way they have handled the Star Wars story, I know I should know better and not hope for much. lol



Nintendo is selling their IPs to Microsoft and this is true because:

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First two Star Wars were the best of the entire series; Star Wars:Last Hope and The Empire Strikes Back. I hated the the Return of the Jedi, what was with those teddy bear things in the jungle what a joke of a film? They had to release 5 more movies and now this one looks it could be contender of the worst Star Wars film of all time!. The Phantom Menace was the suckiest Stars Wars film that ever sucked. It was absolute crap. i can not believe they allowed rubbish like that to be released. Then they made 4 more bad Stars wars films. This is the last Star Wars film in a over milked franchise that should have ended with Return of the Jedi.



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Dark_Lord_2008 said:
First two Star Wars were the best of the entire series; Star Wars:Last Hope and The Empire Strikes Back. I hated the the Return of the Jedi, what was with those teddy bear things in the jungle what a joke of a film? They had to release 5 more movies and now this one looks it could be contender of the worst Star Wars film of all time!. The Phantom Menace was the suckiest Stars Wars film that ever sucked. It was absolute crap. i can not believe they allowed rubbish like that to be released. Then they made 4 more bad Stars wars films. This is the last Star Wars film in a over milked franchise that should have ended with Return of the Jedi.

I completely agree with your sentiment for Return of the Jedi. The movie has some very nice and important scenes but I have some serious problems with it. The drama even feels like from a soap opera.



Nintendo is selling their IPs to Microsoft and this is true because:

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=221391&page=1

AbbathTheGrim said:
Dark_Lord_2008 said:
First two Star Wars were the best of the entire series; Star Wars:Last Hope and The Empire Strikes Back. I hated the the Return of the Jedi, what was with those teddy bear things in the jungle what a joke of a film? They had to release 5 more movies and now this one looks it could be contender of the worst Star Wars film of all time!. The Phantom Menace was the suckiest Stars Wars film that ever sucked. It was absolute crap. i can not believe they allowed rubbish like that to be released. Then they made 4 more bad Stars wars films. This is the last Star Wars film in a over milked franchise that should have ended with Return of the Jedi.

I completely agree with your sentiment for Return of the Jedi. The movie has some very nice and important scenes but I have some serious problems with it. The drama even feels like from a soap opera.

The puppets singing at the beginning was embarrassing.



Snoopy said:
AbbathTheGrim said:

I completely agree with your sentiment for Return of the Jedi. The movie has some very nice and important scenes but I have some serious problems with it. The drama even feels like from a soap opera.

The puppets singing at the beginning was embarrassing.

Yeah, I know what you mean. The Special Edition doesn't help either by extending and adding that CGI stuff.

I like how the performance ends abruptly with Jabba throwing that disgusted dancer to the Rancor though. Shows the cruelty of the guy.



Nintendo is selling their IPs to Microsoft and this is true because:

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DarthMetalliCube said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Guys don't really hate strong female characters though, they existed in films far before this new progressive bullshit started.

I think the real problem is new movies suck and not just because they cater to SJWs.

Agreed. Some take this laughable stance that if you don't like the new trilogy or Rey, "oh you're just threatened by strong female characters!" The funny thing is, I really think it's the opposite for most of these viewers - at least it is for me. I really enjoy strong female characters - those that are believable and have depth, flaws, etc. Which is why I don't like Rey. Rey doesn't have much in the way of these traits. Rey is NOT a strong female character, in the sense that she has no depth. She's not relatable. 

Katnis Everdeen is one of my favorite characters of the last decade. Yet Rey just gives me a constant feeling of "meh, why should I care?" Well, why is this? It's because Rey is not well written. And the acting isn't particilarly memorable either. And it doesn't help that she's basically been relagated to super-hero status with how untouchable she is, and I'm not typically crazy about cheesy super hero films.

Sure, you can argue she's a Jedi in training, and thus powerful and able to overcome much, but unlike Luke, she just seems to coast by and overpower everything with ease. (though you can largely say this about Anakin and many of the Jedia in the prequels, at least Lucas knew to give Akakin his inner struggles with his mother, his love with Padame, his thurst for power conflicting with his morals, etc. Rey just rings extremely hollow, boring, and souless. It rings as incredibly superficial and pandering to me. And we all know Luke was far from perfect, even weak at times, and had to overcome a lot. 

That isn't a powerful female character to me. This is a boring cardboard cutout and a lazy protagonist. And I would wager many women would agree with me (and I have seen many take a similar stance). Women want female characters they can relate to just like we do. And this usually means characters that may be powerful, but that also have depth, obstacles, and flaws to deal with. I see very little of this with Rey (or most of the new trilogy characters for that matter), which I think is a large part of the reason it feels like this new trilogy is just boring and lacking a soul for the most part. Ironically Kylo is the most interesting aspect of this new trilogy for the most part, because he's at least gvien some depth and flaws.

The thing about Anakin is that while Lucas seemed to be going down the same path with him in Ep 1, he course corrected in Ep 2.  We see Anakin after he has been training for a few years, yet he still isn't a Jedi master.  He gets his ass handed to him when he decides to fight Count Dooku, and loses a hand because of it. 

Rey, on the other hand, just touches a lightsaber and is almost a Jedi master.  She read Kylo's mind, even though he was trying to read hers.  She uses a Jedi mind trick, without even knowing how to even attempt it.  I can't remember, but I even think she had no way of knowing Jedi could do that.  She defeats Kylo, who has been training for at least a decade, even though she never picked up a lightsaber.  And that poor excuse of him being injured or unbalanced is complete BS, because if you rewatch that scene, those things play no part in the actual fight.  He's not overly emotional.  And he has no problem moving around and swinging.  Then, she Force pulls a lightsaber to her, even though, again, she has no idea how to do it, and Kylo was pulling it to him.  Not to mention she can fly and repair the Falcon better than Han, for no good reason other than she is just better than everyone at everything.

And that's just the first film.  In the second film, she takes down Luke with no problem whatsoever.  A freaking Jedi master versus a woman with a staff, and he gets taken down?  She swings around a lightsaber for a little bit, then apparently that makes her a master duelist.  She's confronted by the dark side, and it has no sway on her at all, not even a little.  The only person to give her a problem was Snoke, which he just became a joke because his writing is all over the place.  One minute he's all powerful, the next a childish trick takes him out.  She helps take on Snoke's elite guards.  Then, when they are both pulling the lightsaber towards them and it breaks, she instantly gets up, while Kylo is knocked out for about half an hour.  She then shows up at the end to lift up tons and tons worth of boulders with absolutely no effort whatsoever.  Something that would have strained even Yoda to attempt, if he could even pull it off at all.

And, now, with the third film, it looks like we have Rey at full Neo powers.  With absolutely no training whatsoever.  No origin story for her could explain that away at this point.



I don't get the Mary Sue argument with her. She definitely achieved a degree of control over the force far faster than was reasonable and her proficiency with a light saber was pretty much ridiculous (though she did get her ass kicked by Luke without him breaking a sweat)... hopefully they make an attempt to explain that (Anakin was likewise bizarrely proficient with the force as a young child, so perhaps a connection like that could explain it).

Otherwise, she is not some flawless good guy; I'd argue that she seems more drawn towards the dark side of the force than Luke was. It could be that, since the skywalker trilogy was all about establishing a "balance" in the force", she might wind up being something of a hybrid, but regardless she is not a full blown Mary Sue.

They have some repairing to do after the second film (I will never forgive them for having Luke standing in front of a genuine buffet of Imperial soldiers and Walkers and not just unleashing the culmination of his decades of training and mastering of the force on them) but I think it's not impossible. I care enough about the Skywalker trilogy to give it a shot, and while I expect a ton of rehashing and such from Abrams I'm just hoping for some "good" to close out this story.

Seriously though, Luke standing in front of that huge army and...nothing. The missed opportunity still makes me sick lol

*Edit* Just wanted to say that I otherwise really like the cast of the series, but damn was the overall "lesson" of Last Jedi a muddled mess. The main focus seemed to be on that difficult balance between obedience for the sake of unity and strength but also questioning at what point a person should disobey an authority. In both instances I believe the film got it wrong lol

First, Po ABSOLUTELY should have done what he did given that nitwit they had in charge lead them all to believe they were just going to die without putting up any real effort, and yet he's the one who seemed to be portrayed as being "wrong".

Later, Rose disobeyed orders to save Finn with some sentimental nonsense like "we won't win the war by sacrificing love" or something of that sort. Finn had been fully cognizant of the situation and had decided to make a truly heroic sacrifice to save their movement, and yet she decided to intercede. In doing so Rose essentially doomed them to immediate death and destruction barring some "deus ex machina" miracle which, of course, did appear, and yet Rose was portrayed as having done the right thing, when in the reality she had created they'd have maybe 3 minutes to kiss before they and every one of their rebel friends were murdered because of her actions. Totally seems worth it and not at all selfish of her.

So yeah, the Last Jedi is just a tragedy of missed opportunities and muddled messaging... I hope this next one can redeem the story to some extent.

Last edited by Johnw1104 - on 13 April 2019