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Machiavellian said:

Thought it wasn't racist and was prejudice, and now it's a hybrid combination?

Please if you are going to be pendant you can do a better job.  Did the definition say racism, it stated racial prejudice.  Come on keep up.

Leave is the only thing that remotely makes sense. Asking to do good and return to help doesn't. Trump didn't just say leave.

Yes, he said leave.  He told them to leave their country.  No matter how you try to make it something that appear ok, he told 4 women of color to leave their country.  Are you really trying to make people believe with the last statement it makes the first one better.  I believe you are better than this Eric but this argument is making you look really bad.

You must since you used Germany in your own scenario. Maybe you should change it like you did prejudice.

You do know there are different types of prejudice right.  There was no change in my statement but you are really looking bad with this comment.  I believe you are not someone who wasn't born using English but maybe I am wrong.

So it wasn't racist before, and only prejudice, but now it's kinda racist and kinda prejudice? What happened to Trump being a complete idiot? Sounds like you're agreeing with the possibility that he's a mastermind who's playing his opposition like a fiddle. You're welcome.

Racial Prejudice, can you please read the definition so you understand.  You do know there is a difference between Racism and racial prejudice.  If not can you please educate yourself before continuing.  This is getting embarrassing.  And yes, Trump is still and idiot.  Not sure why you believe this has changed or his statements somehow make his this mastermind unless you agree with them.  Can you for the record state whether or not you agree with what he said.

If someone is too stupid to know the difference, or know enough to take into account, whether or not someone is actually from another country or not, when telling them to go to another country, how can you call them prejudice and be mad at them for that? That's like laughing and making fun of a handicapped person for being unable to do something they can't physically do because they are physically handicapped.

See this is your simple reasoning but you never asked me what made Trump stupid.  What made Trump stupid is that he in his ignorance which is on display so often, he never took to the time or cared to check if they were born and raised in the US.  That is what makes him stupid.  He made a very stupid public statement without taking care on what he said and without checking his facts.  We see this stupidity often from him and this is what makes him an idiot.  The statement itself is just him showing his true side.  Someone like Trump will always reveal themselves if given enough chances to keep on talking or in this case tweeting.

The definition isn't enough to explain the meaning? The dictionary isn't enough? W.T..F...?

You wouldn't say Trump is like a father figure to the American people in a way? Lots of people seem to think so based on how important they say he is and how he needs to set a good example for the people, especially the children, much like a parent to their child. Isn't Gov just one big dysfunctional family?

If this is the good example you see from Trump then I await to see what you would consider bad.  Who is to say Trump is the father or head of he household.  Either way it's a moot point.

He was proving a point. Trump made them look bad because they are saying their idea's could change things for the better and yet Trump doesn't agree, and since he's in power they won't be able to make the changes they want since he thinks their wrong. The only option would be to go elsewhere to do it, if they wanted it done asap, and they won't do that for many reasons, partially because it would be a nightmare to attempt in comparison to implementing it in America. That's because America isn't so bad, and yet they act like it's the worst place on Earth. He's using them against themselves to prove America is still great and that the hate they're spewing, plus the MAGA apparently meaning 'going back to a better time' spin, is all BS.

No he wasn't proving any point he was telling these women to leave their country and that's pretty much it.  Every person in Congress all the way up to the president believe their policy can make things for the better.  The difference is that Trump is making statements that these 4 women do not love their country because they want change.  Change they were elected to office to accomplish while he is stating the changes he make shows his love for the country.  Now if you want to talk about a total load of BS then continue defend that crap. No, Trump did not make them look bad but instead added another quiver show how he has always been a crap person.  

You can only lead a horse to water, you can't make it drink, especially the horses that think shoes are a right. No wonder why they are so thirsty and unhappy.

I have no clue what this mean.  Why even go into office stating you are going to make a change or difference and that goes for the President.  I guess you only see one side of the story because you are blinded by the filth.

I think God would judge by adding up all the good vs the bad, taking everything into account including the severity, concluding whether you pass or fail. Which means the good you did counts, but doesn't automatically grant you a get out of jail free ticket. What's with the all or nothing? I thought you said Epstein was covering something up with a bribe? Good context but you never explained how you know that...

Yeah that would be a great GOD.  I could find out how much good I need to do to offset all the crap I do.  I can basically bribe GOD. Nothing like good old capitalism at it's best.

I have no clue about Epstein, I was making a point.  Never ever followed the guy so really do not care.  You keep bringing him up as if he is your hero.

You gotta be a Scorpio with this much all or nothing right?

If you can't acknowledge and take into account that the operation of a vehicle is at the very least, just as important as the departure and arrival it provides, then you're doomed to walking because eventually that vehicle is going to break down.



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jason1637 said:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/trump-tells-aides-to-look-for-big-spending-cuts-in-second-term-seeding-confusion-about-budget-priorities/2019/07/19/3e9e9bde-a98c-11e9-86dd-d7f0e60391e9_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.17540ee94fbe
The dude needs to just cut spending already. The article points out that his aides have put forward numerous budget cuts but he's denied them all.

I see coming that he's bankrupting the state and then blaming the democrats for it - right before he comes with another tax cut for the rich.



the-pi-guy said:

Honestly at this point we should probably drop the tweet conversation. At this point it doesn't even look like an agreement that it could be an issue would happen.  

And maybe let's not stoop to almost calling all Republicans Nazi's...

sundin13 said:

Out of curiosity (aka because I want to see something other than Trump's tweets discussed here), who are you supporting in the democratic primary and why?

Either Warren or Sanders.  Healthcare is probably my number 1 issue, and I view the direction they are taking with it, as a positive one.  

It'd probably be the single biggest thing that would positively impact my life.  

It's terrifying to have to decide whether an issue is worth going to the hospital for.  It's terrifying to have to weigh whether something could be life threatening, and if it isn't, then it's not worth the cost of going in.  

Yeah it's hard to take those using that ridiculous hyperbole serious,and what does it achieve outside of making even less people from the "other end" caring about what they got to say?(And isn't that what we must try to accomplish?)

It is ofcourse one of the strong signs that extremism exists almost everywhere and those that practice it are so unaware of it themselves most of the time.



KLAMarine said:

>Indeed that's on me: I'm a skeptic with very high standards.

What's 'on you'? Can you be more specific, otherwise I have no idea what you're talking about...? Clothes on your body, egg on your face, wasting everyone's time?

I refuse to acknowledge the context in which you made that comment and lack the ability to apply basic deductive reasoning so could you please treat me like a particularly slow 5 year old and include the specifics please?

Ooft, my neck is getting sore from the weight of all these super-high standards crammed into my huge skeptic brain...!



KLAMarine said:

"It's 2019 and Alabama made abortions basically illegal, something many people couldn't imagine happening in the 21st century. Don't take any of your rights for granted."

1)Is an abortion a right? Isn't that a privilege?

"These four women are elected for the US Congress, all they should care about are their voters and America. Why do they have to pass such an unrealistic test? If every american politician also have to be an successfull politician in a nother country than non of your politicians would be in office.

It doesn't sound that cool anymore if you think about it."

2)No one is saying they HAVE to pass any such test. Do you not know what a suggestion is?

1) What do you think is the difference between a right and a privilege? Rights are granted to everyone, an abortion right would grant abortions to everyone who can get pregnant (theoretically also to those who can't get pregnant but they don't really matter). Privilege on the otherhand always requires two groups, one privileged group and one unprivileged group, in case of abortion what would be the unprivileged group?

2) Typically if you suggesting something you also want it to happen or why did you even suggeste it in the first place. But this doesn't even matter in the discussion, Trump's suggestion was stupid and bigoted and I don't understand how anyone can defend him for that.

Last edited by MrWayne - on 20 July 2019

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Biggerboat1 said:
KLAMarine said:

>Indeed that's on me: I'm a skeptic with very high standards.

What's 'on you'? Can you be more specific, otherwise I have no idea what you're talking about...? Clothes on your body, egg on your face, wasting everyone's time?

I refuse to acknowledge the context in which you made that comment and lack the ability to apply basic deductive reasoning so could you please treat me like a particularly slow 5 year old and include the specifics please?

Ooft, my neck is getting sore from the weight of all these super-high standards crammed into my huge skeptic brain...!

"What's 'on you'? Can you be more specific, otherwise I have no idea what you're talking about...?"

>Refer to sundin's post.

MrWayne said:
KLAMarine said:

"It's 2019 and Alabama made abortions basically illegal, something many people couldn't imagine happening in the 21st century. Don't take any of your rights for granted."

1)Is an abortion a right? Isn't that a privilege?

"These four women are elected for the US Congress, all they should care about are their voters and America. Why do they have to pass such an unrealistic test? If every american politician also have to be an successfull politician in a nother country than non of your politicians would be in office.

It doesn't sound that cool anymore if you think about it."

2)No one is saying they HAVE to pass any such test. Do you not know what a suggestion is?

1) What do you think is the difference between a right and a privilege? Rights are granted to everyone, an abortion right would grant abortions to everyone who can get pregnant (theoretically also to those who can't get pregnant but they don't really matter). Privilege on the otherhand always requires two groups, one privileged group and one unprivileged group, in case of abortion what would be the unprivileged group?

2) Typically if you suggesting something you also want it to happen or why did you even suggeste it in the first place. But this doesn't even matter in the discussion, Trump's suggestion was stupid and bigoted and I don't understand how anyone can defend him for that.

1) A privilege can be rescinded. A right cannot.

2) A suggestion isn't automatically enforceable. Trump's suggestion is not enforceable.



A new bipartisan push by Senators for the DHS to implement a program called Operation Safe Return.
1. Within 1-3 days, families would receive a U.S Border Patrol interview. Those who do not claim credible fear would be deported.
Those who do claim fear of returning home would get a second interview within the next two days. Translators would be provided.
3. Over their first 4 days in the U.S., all would receive a medical exam and be provided "fair access" to attorneys.
4. Within 9 days, asylum officers would conduct an interview.
5. Within 1 day of that interview, the officer’s determination will be sent to DOJ and homeland security.
6. Over the next 2-4 days officials would judge the case.
7. Within a total of 15 days, homeland security would remove family units “whose negative credible fear determinations are affirmed by the immigration judge.”
8. Those found to have a credible fear of returning will be steered to file an asylum claim.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/new-border-plan-migrants-get-15-days-to-prove-asylum-claim-or-leave



jason1637 said:
A new bipartisan push by Senators for the DHS to implement a program called Operation Safe Return.
1. Within 1-3 days, families would receive a U.S Border Patrol interview. Those who do not claim credible fear would be deported.
Those who do claim fear of returning home would get a second interview within the next two days. Translators would be provided.
3. Over their first 4 days in the U.S., all would receive a medical exam and be provided "fair access" to attorneys.
4. Within 9 days, asylum officers would conduct an interview.
5. Within 1 day of that interview, the officer’s determination will be sent to DOJ and homeland security.
6. Over the next 2-4 days officials would judge the case.
7. Within a total of 15 days, homeland security would remove family units “whose negative credible fear determinations are affirmed by the immigration judge.”
8. Those found to have a credible fear of returning will be steered to file an asylum claim.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/new-border-plan-migrants-get-15-days-to-prove-asylum-claim-or-leave

While I support speeding up the asylum process, there are a few issues that I have with this.

First of all, Border Patrol agents should not be tasked with making the initial determination. CBP officials are not properly trained to conduct these interviews, there is a severe risk of bias and there is also an issue with how trustworthy these officials and agencies are. There have been numerous accusations of mistreatment and with recent news regarding the private Facebook groups, it does not seem prudent to place this responsibility in the hands of such a group. This should be handled by asylum officers in all cases where an individual is seeking asylum.

Second, while expedited processing is beneficial is many cases, the asylum seeker should be allowed to postpone certain aspects in order to protect due process. If an individual needs more than 15 days to gather evidence, they should be granted some additional time.

Third, this does very little to push back against the abuses of the system which are being pushed by Trump. We need a system which clearly and fairly defines criteria for asylum and does not allow room for such abuses. Trump has made it clear that he wishes to reduce asylum as much as possible. The new policy to refuse asylum to anybody who hasn't claimed it in a county that they have passed through must be abandoned, and we need clear language allowing asylum claims related to domestic violence and gang violence (both of which Trump and his administration have sought to reduce).



sundin13 said:
jason1637 said:
A new bipartisan push by Senators for the DHS to implement a program called Operation Safe Return.
1. Within 1-3 days, families would receive a U.S Border Patrol interview. Those who do not claim credible fear would be deported.
Those who do claim fear of returning home would get a second interview within the next two days. Translators would be provided.
3. Over their first 4 days in the U.S., all would receive a medical exam and be provided "fair access" to attorneys.
4. Within 9 days, asylum officers would conduct an interview.
5. Within 1 day of that interview, the officer’s determination will be sent to DOJ and homeland security.
6. Over the next 2-4 days officials would judge the case.
7. Within a total of 15 days, homeland security would remove family units “whose negative credible fear determinations are affirmed by the immigration judge.”
8. Those found to have a credible fear of returning will be steered to file an asylum claim.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/new-border-plan-migrants-get-15-days-to-prove-asylum-claim-or-leave

While I support speeding up the asylum process, there are a few issues that I have with this.

First of all, Border Patrol agents should not be tasked with making the initial determination. CBP officials are not properly trained to conduct these interviews, there is a severe risk of bias and there is also an issue with how trustworthy these officials and agencies are. There have been numerous accusations of mistreatment and with recent news regarding the private Facebook groups, it does not seem prudent to place this responsibility in the hands of such a group. This should be handled by asylum officers in all cases where an individual is seeking asylum.

Second, while expedited processing is beneficial is many cases, the asylum seeker should be allowed to postpone certain aspects in order to protect due process. If an individual needs more than 15 days to gather evidence, they should be granted some additional time.

Third, this does very little to push back against the abuses of the system which are being pushed by Trump. We need a system which clearly and fairly defines criteria for asylum and does not allow room for such abuses. Trump has made it clear that he wishes to reduce asylum as much as possible. The new policy to refuse asylum to anybody who hasn't claimed it in a county that they have passed through must be abandoned, and we need clear language allowing asylum claims related to domestic violence and gang violence (both of which Trump and his administration have sought to reduce).

I feel that if there's a standard set of questions and answers are documented I feel that border patrol could handle the first interview but it'd would have to be doen correctly. 

Eh 15 days sounds like a reasonable amount of time but on a case by case basis some extra time would make sense but they should make sure that there isn't a loophole that allows for an absurd amount of extensions.

The asylum policy makes sense for the time being. When the border patrol spending increase goes into effect and the overcrowding issue gets better I think the asylum police should then be dropped.



jason1637 said:

I feel that if there's a standard set of questions and answers are documented I feel that border patrol could handle the first interview but it'd would have to be doen correctly. 

Eh 15 days sounds like a reasonable amount of time but on a case by case basis some extra time would make sense but they should make sure that there isn't a loophole that allows for an absurd amount of extensions.

The asylum policy makes sense for the time being. When the border patrol spending increase goes into effect and the overcrowding issue gets better I think the asylum police should then be dropped.

I disagree with your first two points, but there isn't really much there to argue. As for the third point, which asylum policy are you talking about? The current one of this proposal? Further, what do you mean when you say "the asylum police should then be dropped". I assume that was supposed to say "policy" but it still needs to be explained further.